Forums

Sega Master System / Mark III / Game Gear
SG-1000 / SC-3000 / SF-7000 / OMV
Home - Forums - Games - Scans - Maps - Cheats - Credits
Music - Videos - Development - Hacks - Translations - Homebrew

View topic - SMS TMNT Homebrew

Reply to topic
Author Message
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
SMS TMNT Homebrew
Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:14 pm
Well, I said I would make a topic for this when I had something to show. I'll use this topic as a way to track progress on this project. As I've seen other people have done in the past. My apologies if this violates any forum rule, and I would expect it would be removed.

After some research, I've decided to see how far I can go using DevkitSMS. I played around with it a bit in VSCode, and I really dig it. I need some specific things for the asset side, however, so I decided to write a wrapper UI around it, to make my life easier. Tentatively called Dev SMS. So my current status is developing that tool. Which will basically be an enhanced tool that I created many years ago (GMare).

My goal is to get a proof of concept out. This will include all screens needed to play through stage 1. (Titles, Intros, Attract Mode, Game Over etc.. etc..)

To Do List:
Finish 2 remaining intro screens.
Finish up player and enemy sprites
Finish Dev SMS
Actual code development

Thanks for viewing!
sms_tmnt_0005.png (18.5 KB)
Title Screen WIP
sms_tmnt_0005.png
sms_tmnt_0003.png (5.73 KB)
Konami Screen WIP
sms_tmnt_0003.png
sms_tmnt_0007.png (21.59 KB)
DevkitSMS test of drawing/tile flipping
sms_tmnt_0007.png
sms_tmnt_0006.png (40.71 KB)
Dev SMS importing WIP
sms_tmnt_0006.png
sms_tmnt_0004.png (26.17 KB)
Game start intro WIP
sms_tmnt_0004.png
sms_tmnt_0002.png (10.73 KB)
Sprite dev WIP
sms_tmnt_0002.png
sms_tmnt_0001.png (22.73 KB)
Stage 1 and sprite palette arrangement for various foot soldiers
sms_tmnt_0001.png

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 08 Jul 2001
  • Posts: 8345
  • Location: Paris, France
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:30 pm
It looks wonderful, great job!

One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:41 pm
Bock wrote
It looks wonderful, great job!

One thing to watch out for is the 8 sprites limits per scanline (one sprite = 8 pixels wide) which given your screenshots may be something to fight against.


Thank you for the heads up. From previous conversations, I'm aware of it. I'm sure it'll be a flicker fest, something I will eventually have to deal with, and experiment on getting the best results for.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:36 pm
WOW!! I'll follow this thread for sure. S2



I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo.



In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes.

But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave. Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows?



By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience.



In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon).
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:11 pm
rouken wrote

I was thinking... It will be possible to re-create the 16-bit Konami logo using the SMS hardware? I was thinking about it in the last days, and I think it will be very difficult to make it looks like the 16-bit logo.


I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself.

rouken wrote
In the other topic, it was commented about overcome the NES limitations. One thing I was thinking is to increase the number of different enemies per screen. In the original Arcade game, a lot of enemies enter on screen, including in different "flavors". In the NES version, only 3 enemies enter on screen per time, and each time a enemy is defeated, another cames to take his place until the enemies wave finishes.

But one thing I noticed in the NES version is each wave features only one type/"flavour" of enemy. So, you can't face more than one type/"flavour" of enemy in each wave.


Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out.

rouken wrote
Maybe this limitation cames from the size of VRAM of the NES and, maybe, that's why it was not possible to bring the battle against Bebop & Rockstead from the arcade, and replace then to a battle against Fly-Baxter. As the SMS have a bigger VRAM, maybe it will be possible to offer waves of enemies with different colors and types (more than one type will be a nice restoration... Be able to put up to three different types of enemies per screen will be a blessing). Maybe, even maybe, it can be possible to restore the Bebop & Rockstead battle to the SMS version. Who knows?


I would at least like to give the Rocksteady and Bebop battle a try.

rouken wrote
By the way, is your plan to make a 1:1 port from the Arcade version (limitated from the SMS limitations, of course), or your plan is to bring all the content of the NES version, inclusing the exclusive stages? Maybe could be cool to offer an option let the player to choose to have the closer Arcade experience, or the extended NES experience.


I definitely want to bring everything over from the NES version, and more, but try to make it more organic though. The whole snow stage isn't really explained, and it feels disconnected from the game. Plus, I dunno, snowball throwing foot seems lame. lol Let's do it up like sub-zero instead, or some other great idea. Basically, level wise, similar to the NES version, but graphics more inspired by the Arcade version, or some sort of mix in between.

I love the option idea! That's a keeper.

I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol


rouken wrote
In the screen where Splinter says "Hang on April", that said ballon can be placed to a position closer to the Arcade version, or did you put that way to save tiles or because of the system's resolution? If the ballon can be repositioned back as in the Arcade version, and assuming that ballon is formed from background tiles, it could be wise to set that tiles with High Priority to make the ballon be above the sprites like the Arcade version (in the NES version, this ballon is also mounted with background tiles, but the sprites overlays the ballon).


It's all WIP at the moment. I was mainly concerned about the tile count and palette setup. So that came first. With consideration that I would ultimately need space for the turtles jumping off the edge. The image wouldn't appear like that in game, with the speech bubbles all at one time, however.

I forget the exact amount of tiles I calculated and tested, but for the most part, it's doable, without losing too much of the original. I did align the speech bubbles to the grid where it wouldn't look too janky. Just in case I need to do it that way.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2011
  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Valencia,Spain.
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:11 am
Hey xfixium, I am very glad to realize that your new project has new topic. I can't wait to know and read any news you want to share with us.

I can say that TMNT for our favourite consoles is a dream I had never believed that could be true.

It is near impossible for me trying to explain what I feel with every single image you share about this game, and even worse when It is not in my native languaje.

Thank you!.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 28 Jan 2017
  • Posts: 400
  • Location: Málaga, Spain
Reply with quote
Remembering...
Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:53 am
Great game. And Difficult. Played a lot the arcade version (difficult skeeting stage). Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites).
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 21 Aug 2012
  • Posts: 313
  • Location: Berlin, Germany
Reply with quote
Cowabunga!
Post Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:32 am
Wow, it looks amazing! As a huge fan of the original turtles series, I hope you will finish your project one day.

Molto fantastico, dude!
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 11 Mar 2006
  • Posts: 72
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:35 am
That looks AMAZING!
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 15 Sep 2010
  • Posts: 48
  • Location: Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:19 pm
I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS).

I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments).


eruiz00 wrote
Maybe the simpsons could be easier to port (had smaller sprites).


I'd love to see a Simpsons port to Master System too.

But instead of using arcade sprites the best choice would be ripping graphics from the MS-DOS version.
They probably would fit SMS very well.

  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:02 pm
macbee wrote
I'm very curious to see more about the development of this port - especially the graphics conversion (from arcade to 8-bit SMS).

I also made some mockups for TMNT arcade game on SMS years ago just for fun (see attachments).


I like 'em! On the splash screen, I see you did some custom dithering on Donatello for his pads, nice. Interesting choice of colors as well. The dark green for them was the other color I was going back and forth on, before settling for the more army green color. They're both good choices imo. It was hard to make my mind up.

I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison.
sms_tmnt_0008.png (16.78 KB)
I used red instead of the pink, just to get a dark red into the palette
sms_tmnt_0008.png
sms_tmnt_0009.png (15.52 KB)
Player select WIP. In the editor I'm making, I'm going to have a UI function where you can choose what tiles you want to draw when defining a tilemap. So you can "punch holes" in them
sms_tmnt_0009.png

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 20 Apr 2018
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: Canada
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 am
Dev SMS looks very interesting too.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 15 Sep 2010
  • Posts: 48
  • Location: Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:28 am
Last edited by macbee on Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations!

I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2).

Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates!
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:28 pm
xfixium wrote
I had 2 versions, originally. However I favored this one, because the gradient in the center looked janky in the other one. There's not enough colors to re-create the 16-bit one, as you know, but I like how it turned out none-the-less. Kind of a fake gradient on the "Konami" itself.

The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself.

After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think?




But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers.

So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.




xfixium wrote
Yes, very observant! I don't think I could overcome the amount of sprites on the screen limitation, but at least from a palette standpoint, I think we could definitely mix it up. The white foot could compliment any wave combination. Some foot can mix with others. Like Purple and Red, they share the same colors. Orange and Yellow could as well. Couple those combinations with white foot, and it cuts the blandness down a bit. Plus mixing in those lasso robots, if the palette works out.

That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite.

A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point.




xfixium wrote
I love the option idea! That's a keeper.

Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version.




xfixium wrote
I also wanted to create another stage, but it's not definite. I have the possibility of a green foot, I feel it needs to be used somewhere lol

I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof).





xfixium wrote
On the splash screen

I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version.

My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center...




xfixium wrote
I've attached the mock-up WIPs I've created thus far, for comparison.

I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off...

By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo...




macbee wrote
Your latest screens are fantastic, congratulations!

I wonder if this SMS port would fit on 4Mbit (like the NES version) or if it would require a bigger cartridge (like Street Fighter 2).

And since you’ve noticed dither on Donatello I’ll attach the last of the mockups I did back on 2013: Title screen with *lots* of dithering (I have no idea if it would look good on a CRT TV or if it would generate too many artifacts).

Good luck with this project, hope to see more updates!

I must say this mockup looks terrific!! Awesome dithering work. S2

It's just missing the "(c) Konami 1998" in the botton of the screen, and the TM is in a different place. Plus, the trademark lines are off-center, but it can be corrected with a proper "parallax trick". After all, I would love to see this screen animated with the same movements of the Arcade version, once it's very possible on the SMS.
Konami.jpg (33.98 KB)
Dithering is life. S2
Konami.jpg

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2014
  • Posts: 621
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:25 pm
Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:04 pm
rouken wrote
The SMS color palette is limited compared with the SMD color palette, but, after completed, the Konami logo at SMD games uses 25 colors, where the number can fit with the max colors per screen at SMS games. The only thing to care is about the SMS shade of colors, once the SMS works with a palette of 64 colors in total, while the SMD works with 512 colors in total... The missing shade of colors can be ajusted with no problem, specially if you try to overcome the color limitation by using dithering (it worth to check more about this thing...), who is one thing the SMS can benefit with, once it's a legacy system design to be played in a CRT. But you did an amazing job by yourself.

After that, I tried to creating my own Konami logo from a screenshot of the SMD version, and ajusting the color palette, limiting to the SMS color palette, and using a 224-line screen resolution (to match with the SMD resolution), and using some dithering. What do you think?


The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now.

rouken wrote
But the thing is I was thinking about is to port the whole animation of the logo: The laser beam being formed, the laser beam scrolling down to reveal the Konami logo, and the change of colors. But in the SMD case, the Konami logo works with two backgroud layers.

So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.


I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

rouken wrote
That why I said before it's a good thing to work with less colors per character: You will always have some extra slots available to work with in case of you find some new orientation to your work, and you don't need to revise the work already done to adapt the new idea. The NES version works fine with 3 colors (plus transparence) per sprite. The SMS version can offer better visuals by having just 4 colors (plus transparence) per sprite.

A good orientation is check the colors used by the sprites for one stage: Players, enemies and items. After list all the sprites for that stage, check the total of colors all the sprites uses, and check what sprites can be at the same screen with the same sprite color palette pattern. Just make sure the background can benefit of making use of a specific sprite color palette pattern in each point.


I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc....

rouken wrote
Just make sure to check each "feature" of each version. For example, The 1st stage in the NES version is much longer than the Arcade version.


I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed.

rouken wrote
I would preffer some other kind of "exclusive content" (cof, cof... CaseyJonesAsASecretPlayableCharacter... cof, cof).


I was thinking of this. If possible, secret or unlockable characters. One step at a time however.

rouken wrote
I would like to know if it's possible to animate these 4 panels on the SMS hardware in the same way it is animated in the Arcade version.

My best bet: This animation will use background tile update to simulate the animation. It will not have a smooth movement, but it will keep the idea of 4 panels joining to the center...


I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle.

rouken wrote
I saw your work there... Nice!! But judging what I'm seeing, I must guest you is building the player select screen with a cursor after the 4-Players Arcade version. I know it's a WIP, but, to make sure, I must ask: Are you overlooking there's a 2-Players version of the Arcade game with a proper cursor where you can port the screen? I like the gray-scale effect over the graphics there the cursor is off...

By the way, the 2-Players Arcade version have a Top Score / Credit panel in the middle in the HUD, in the place where you put the TMNT logo in your mockups... So, you can save some tiles by replacing the TMNT logo...


Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles.

I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution!

Kagesan wrote
Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.


Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well.
sms_tmnt_0010.png (11.31 KB)
All Konami assets currently
sms_tmnt_0010.png
sms_tmnt_0011.png (13.36 KB)
High score turtle profile colors
sms_tmnt_0011.png
sms_tmnt_0012.png (9.19 KB)
Other profile stuff
sms_tmnt_0012.png
sms_sf2_0003.png (29.34 KB)
Just for giggles, SF2 hacking mock up that I put together one night. I believe last time I checked, I was almost at the correct tile amount.
sms_sf2_0003.png

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 26 Jan 2014
  • Posts: 690
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:42 pm
I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2).

Good luck with your TMNT project !
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:27 am
Revo wrote
I wish it was not just for giggles (SF2).

Good luck with your TMNT project !


Thanks!

At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:41 pm
xfixium wrote
The way I view dithering is, you either go all in, or you don't. I'm taking the no dithering route, for now. I want the graphics to feel uniform either way. I like what you did with the Konami screen. For mine, I used the SNES version as the source. As it seemed to match well with the vibrant colors the SMS has, palette wise. (I used SNES version for a SF2 ROM hack mock up I did for giggles) What I got is not perfect, but it'll do for now.

Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.

I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total.

The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV...

Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think?







xfixium wrote
I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming...





xfixium wrote
I have a pretty good idea of all this. I've experimented a bunch. I have 14 colors that will be static, used by all sprites, and one color that is variable, based on the wave of enemies. There's a good mix that it will work for everything I believe. Weapons, explosions, fire hydrants, meter poles, bombs, etc... etc....

Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :)





xfixium wrote
I am aware of this, as previously stated, I'm basically using the NES version as a template currently. I reference everything as much as possible. The original arcade source material, nes version, and perceived limitations. This will all have to be tested when the time comes. Feedback welcomed.

For the feedback... My body is ready...





xfixium wrote
I was thinking of how this would be done as well, while I was putting it together. That was one way I was thinking of doing it, or a transition. Like how the double dragon logo is "blocked" in, for each turtle.

Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example.

What do your think of the result?







xfixium wrote
Thanks! I wasn't aware of it tbh. I think I'll stick with what I got, however. But I do like the grayscales as well, I'll have to tinker with it, see if it looks decent. I typically don't like how non-gray colors, and grays mix (Thus why I didn't use this approach on the Konami logo), only in some scenarios do I find it looks decent. I'll typically just use shades of blue + white, or some other color with multiple shades. I also could just use the high score palette swaps? That might work as well. That's assuming that I can have that many tiles.

I do like the idea of getting those TMNT tiles out of there. That would be a good solution!

If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go.

I got your job and did an Arcade-like grey scale version to check if each art will be as good in the SMS palette, and, surprise, it gets a nice looking... if the idea is to replicate the Arcade looking. The arts uses just two shades of gray, plus black. No white was used...



I think you can change the palette of the colored turtles to gray-style with simple palette change to spare memory... The four turtles uses 15 values of 15 colors... But you will must separate some colors per turtle... Leo uses 11 colors alone, Mike 9, Donny 11, and Raph 11... Just this will exceed the number of colors the SMS palette can store. Without counting some turtles must have more colors slots filled with a same color to not mess the gray scale changing (I had some extra work with Mike and Raph in this part). So, I thing swaping tiles from gray scale to colored tiles is the way to go...





Kagesan wrote
Very interesting project. Makes me wish I liked beat'em-ups. Sadly, I could never really get into the genre. I do like Golden Axe even if I suck at it, though.

xfixium wrote
Understandable, the genre isn't everyone's cup of tea. I have friends that find it stale, as well.

It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today.

But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version).





xfixium wrote
At some point I'll continue the SF2 hack. I barely looked at it, but I'd like to see how far I can push it, in the future.

I hope you can restore the missing special moves too...

Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M...
TMNT.gif (40.78 KB)
TMNT.gif
Konami.jpg (33.8 KB)
Konami.jpg

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 22 Mar 2015
  • Posts: 187
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:48 pm
This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?:

i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on

ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.

This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 02 Mar 2021
  • Posts: 2
  • Location: Rome
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:23 pm
Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night!
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2020
  • Posts: 51
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:23 pm
rouken wrote
Thanks... But I think I could do a better result. So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.

I checked the colors difference of the twin waves of the Konami logo in the three versions and, after turn each color in a SMS equivalent, I came with the five colors inside of each wave, and three colors for the waves outlines. The total of colors used in the waves I got is 10. With the Konami name included, the screen I got uses 15 colors in total.

The dithering I used was to mask the change of shades in the waves. In the Konami name case, I used dithering to supply the lack of color shades. The shades of the inside of the name used 7 colors in the SMD original, but the SMS color palette don't have all these different shades, so I had to use dithering to compensate the lack of the shades. I believe it could looks nice on a CRT TV...

Now I have a revised Konami logo. I thing I can't do better than this. That do you think?


I'll have to look further into this at some point. The thing that stuck out for me right off the bat, is that the graphic has to stand up to pixel perfect scaling as well. If played through an emulator.

rouken wrote
In fact, I have two Attack Plans... Let's do it for latter when you be ok to start the logo programming...


Sounds great

rouken wrote
Nice job... I would love to see the technical stuff... :)


It's pretty simple, 14 static colors, 1 variable color, depending on the enemy wave. I'll create an image at some point to show what I mean in better detail. Critique it from there.

rouken wrote
Over your mockup, I did a mockup of my animation concept, updating tile by tile, just to test, and I liked the result. Of course it's not smooth as a sprite moving a horizontally and vertically pixel-by-pixel per frame, but moving 8 pixels horizontally and vertically per frame by updading the tiles works just fine to simulate the Arcade animation. Note: I don't tried to match to the same speed of the Arcade version, because it's just an example.

What do your think of the result?


I love it, I think it'll do just fine.

rouken wrote
If you ask me, It would be wise to use the 2-Players version of the Arcade game to keep the port closer to the original. Once the 4-Players version don't have a cursor (once each controller is fixed to each turtle), the 2-Players version of the character select screen is the way to go.


Hmm, I'm on the fence, let's try both when the time comes, see what shakes from there. Same for your grayscale examples. Thanks for the work put in!

rouken wrote
It's a style who was popular in later 80's and early 90's. The Final Fight and Street of Rage series are the top from something where Kunio-Kun and Double Dragon games was pioneer... Other series like Golden Axe, TMNT and Rushing Beat series are also other good examples of the style... Sadly, this style is a niche today.

But, if you want a try in a modern attempt to this style, you can try Streets of Rage 4, Scott Pilgrim VS The World: The Game, or Double Dragon Neon (don't believe in bad reviews... Neon is gold and funny, and have an amazing 80's sytle music track!! You can get it on Steam, the Xbox family, PS3, and the recently released Switch version).


I bought SOR 4 day one when it hit Steam, I got Neon when I had a PS3, me and a buddy of mine played 2 player a lot. I enjoyed them both. (On Neon he died a lot, I had to constantly save his ass lol)

rouken wrote
I hope you can restore the missing special moves too...


I'm just looking to replace the graphics for SF2, I have no plans to change anything with the logic (Nor am I capable of doing that, at this time). Basically, like what I did with Golden Axe, if possible.

rouken wrote
Just to note, the SMS SF2 uses an 8M ROM to store about 6M of data... So, you have 2M to fill the space of 8M...


I did take notice of this.

FeRcHuLeS wrote
i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on


I would definitely like to do this

FeRcHuLeS wrote
ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.


I think if it were to be accomplished, this would be the way, at least one of them would need to be tile based

FeRcHuLeS wrote
This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!


Ideas and feedback welcomed!

GiovanniFalco wrote
Hi, I just signed up. I want to congratulate you on the work you are doing. The idea that you are also improving SF2 for my favorite console is not making me sleep at night!


lol sorry for the restlessness. I'll be picking at the SF2 rom here and there. This project is my priority, however.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 14 Jul 2008
  • Posts: 154
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:10 pm
rouken wrote
So, I analysed the color palette of the SMD, SNES and PCE Konami logos. The most clear difference is the SMD version is the only one who have a ® symbol. The SNES and PCE have a small difference in the Konami name width. I opted to keep SMD logo with the ® symbol to differentiate with the non-Sega systems who don't have this symble.


This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol.

It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are.

During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it.

Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end.

So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 08 Nov 2020
  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Gensokyo
Reply with quote
TMNT: The Arcade Game For Sega Master System Project
Post Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:10 am
I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo?

Here's a Mockup I did for either result if either of my suggestions get in.
Mutagen Sega.png (2.19 KB)
But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green.
Mutagen Sega.png
TMNT4SMS SM3.png (3 KB)
For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag
TMNT4SMS SM3.png

  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 30 Nov 2017
  • Posts: 8
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:00 pm
ThatDamnCatgirl wrote
I wonder if you'll have FM


Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13633
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:13 pm
It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?).
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2006
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: USA
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:51 pm
Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms!
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 30 Nov 2017
  • Posts: 8
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:23 pm
segasonicfan wrote
Amaaaaaazing!! Wow youre very talented, getting some amazing colors out the ol sms!


My understanding is that these are proof of concept images done in photoshop and not actually ingame shots.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 05 Jan 2006
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: USA
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:41 pm
Ah, makes sense
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:13 pm
Last edited by rouken on Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
rouken wrote
So, how the SMS can handle a port of the 16-bit Konami logo animation with no flaws and overcoming the system's limitation? Well... After absorving some knowledge, I already create an attack plan. But it will be too intense to just walltext it there. If you are interested about it, I can send a PM to you.

xfixium wrote
I'll reach out to you at some point. I haven't delved too much into actual game code. For now, I'm concentrating on DEV SMS.

Well...



More about how this mock-up was builded HERE.





FeRcHuLeS wrote
This is an exciting project! a favourite of mine in childhood, May I suggest the following?:

i.-Consider voices samples "Shellshock!", "Pizza time!" and so on

ii.-Consider bosses using background tiles so Rocksteady and Bebop can be possible avoiding sprite flickering and saving memory thanks to background tiles flipping.

This great project is what this system deserved always, Konami had hands tied to launch its IPs, if I notice something interesting to add I'll post it and, keep this going on. Cowabunga!

Voice samples on SMS is a risk because the game freezes while the sample is playing. But, according with Maxim...

Maxim wrote
It is CPU-based to time the samples, you can't really do anything while it is playing (except perhaps some extreme cases of small work with a lot of tricky code, or some glitchy sound). Some homebrew has audio played using the horizontal interrupt to time ~10kHz but I'm not sure how it works outside the visible area.

I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it.

Anyway, "Shellshock!" and "Pizza Time!" are voice elements from Turtles in Time, not from the first game. Specially if you have in account the first arcade game already have a good amount of voices, including some used for the musics (I'm not counting the TMNT theme).

The reason because the Rocksteady and Bebop fight was cut from the NES game is not only because of flickering, but also because the number of simultanious tiles the NES can display. The SMS can display more different tiles because the system can store more tiles. I suggested to overcome the NES limitation by offering more than one type of enemie per wave...





Wesker wrote
This is not correct. There are many Konami SNES games which have the purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol.

It seems like adding the ® symbol was a trend for Konami starting in late 1992, which was when they also released their first Mega Drive games, hence why their green laser Konami logo for the Mega Drive (and Mega CD) always carries out the ® symbol. None of their SNES games released in 1990, 1991 and for the most part of 1992 have it, the first one carrying it being Tiny Toon Adventures: Buster Busts Loose!, released in Japan in December 1992 as simply Tiny Toon Adventures, technically making this a late 1992 game like the first Konami Mega Drive games are.

During 1993, 1994 and most of 1995, almost all their SNES do have it, exceptions being NFL Football (1993) and Shin Mahjong (1994). Then, in late 1995, and starting with Chibi Maruko-chan: Mezase! Minami no Island!!, Konami randomly had the ® kept or removed from their late 1995 and 1996 games, with their single Jikkyō Powerful Pro Yakyū 1997 and 1998 games still keeping it.

Given that none of their PC Engine and PC Engine CD games ever had the blue laser Konami logo portraying any ® symbol at all, it seems to me like this was more of a regional thing regarding the Western markets and their copyright laws rather than an specific platform thing like you are pointing out, similar to what happened with the Sega bootup logos on their Mega Drive games, which usually featured a ® or ™ symbol outside of Japan, but didn't in the Japanese versions. In the case of Konami it was either having it or not having it at all, no matter the regional variation of the game, so it seems like they always added it "just in case" (or almost always, the 1993 and 1994 exceptions seem like they were overlooked), not discarding releases of their games outside Japan (even if many of them weren't in the end), and then in late 1995 they didn't enforce this any longer (so some games had it and others don't) as their SNES releases outside Japan were coming to an end.

So yeah, if you want to check a SNES purple laser Konami logo with the ® symbol you have many of them carrying it from late 1992 onwards, but maybe color wise the Mega Drive/Mega CD green laser Konami logo will suit you best like you already did.

We have a Konami expert here. Yeah... In fact, to do my work, I got three games: Both US and JP versions of Rocket Knight Adventures (SMD), Turtles in Time (SNES), and Detana!! TwinBee (PC Engine). I don't checked other games because the idea was to check the colors used in each system to make a better color choice and distribuition for a SMS version of the logo.





ThatDamnCatgirl wrote
I wonder if you'll have FM and Sega Mark III support or just use a traditional Sega Logo before the Konami Logo?

NewHorizon wrote
Would absolutely love FM music support, especially in the style used for the Sonic 1 FM hack that allowed for use of both FM and PSG simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't support FM in North America by having the FM chips included in the core system. That tech could have really set the Master System apart.

The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation...

There's the Sonic 1 FM Music Hack topic... In this topic, it's said the musics was composed using OPLL/YM2413... I don't know how it works, but I supose it's not so easy to work with like a tracker.

Gustavo Firmino Cazonato, very talented tracker user and the one who ported the musics for the SMS Mega Man II port, always wished a tracker with YM2413 support. His favourite tracker to use is the DEFLEMASK, but this tracker never added YM2413 support up to now... but in one point in the past was discursed about add such thing... Maybe if Deflemask could have YM2413, we could have a lot of ROM hacks to add FM musics on SMS games... I would love to see some word from Delek about it...

The problem about having a game who uses both FM and PSG at the same time is it will be a problem if loaded on a stock Mark III with a FM Unit, once this combination will use the FM chip, and "disable" the PSG chip, like seen in THIS VIDEO.

To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations:
> A western Master System with the FM chip
> A western Master System without the FM chip
> A Mark III with the FM Unit
> A Mark III without the FM Unit
> A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default)

If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided:
> Full PSG sound
> Full FM sound
> Mixed PSG and FM sound

All the system combinations listed above can use the "Full PSG sound" option, only the systems with the FM chip can use the "Full FM sound" option, but the Mark III with the FM Unit is the only option with the FM chip who can not use the "Mixed PSG and FM sound".

About region change... Proper Sega Mark III support can be done in some portion... For example, the japanese version of the arcade game have the subtitle スーパー亀忍者 ("Super Kame Ninja"... Or "Super Ninja Turtles" in english) in the title screen. But there's another point here: The USA game is called "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles", while the european game uses the UK title "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles". In that case, a code to check the clock of the system can be used combined with the region check.

The Sega Mark III logo can be displayed if the game detect a japanese BIOS, but the Sega logo on western systems can be displayed if that said system don't display any Sega logo, like western Genesis / Mega Drive, or western Game Gears. Maybe can be some way to make the Sega logo be displayed on a Western Master System if the game detects the ROM is being loaded from a flashcart, like the Master Everdrive.

Anyway... Both the game's title and system's logo will depend on machine and region, who includes in this list: Sega Mark III, NTSC US Master System, NTSC JP Master System, PAL Master System, NTSC Sega Genesis, NTSC Mega Drive, PAL Mega Drive, NTSC US Game Gear, NTSC JP Game Gear, and PAL Game Gear.

In any case, in a scenario of game content depending on hardware check, detection codes of multiple scenarios will be needed. A good place to look about it is the SMS Test Suit, who have a lot of detection code.

Suggestion: Once there's this detection thing extravaganza, I would like to suggest a dedicated warning screen if the game is loaded on a SG-1000. Or, maybe, including a TMNT SG-1000 micro game in this warning screen (I think there's one SMS game who displays a warning screen if the game is played on a SG-1000...).





ThatDamnCatgirl wrote
But if we're gonna use a regular sega logo then it could be a canister of Mutagen that smashes against the Sega text from Snail Maze and turn it into the regular Sega logo but make it green.

The problem is the Sega logo is loaded from the BIOS, who is loaded before the game. It's not possible to make the game's code be loaded before the BIOS code (from what I have knowledge). Add a Sega logo in the game's code without any detection condition will result in a double Sega logo if loaded on a real system, like what happens in SMS Streets of Rage 1, who plays the Sega logo from the BIOS, and, right after that, plays the Sega logo from the game (you can't see it happening if you run the game on an emulator and set the emulator to not show the BIOS, or on a SMD/GG via Master Gear Adapter).





ThatDamnCatgirl wrote
For the Sega Mark III screen it could use edited TMNT 1 NES sprites as a gag

In this case it is very possible to be done, once the Sega Mark III logo is loaded from the game.





Maxim wrote
It would be cool to detect the BIOS logo state and animate something over it. Sally though this wouldn’t work with an Everdrive in the middle (or maybe you can have an intro for that too?).

Wait... Is it possible to make a SMS game on a cartridge intercept the SMS BIOS code to interfere of what will be displayed during the Sega logo? 0.0
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2014
  • Posts: 621
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:00 am
Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea.

rouken wrote
I don't know if a special sample playback code can be done to make the sample be played during the game without freezing it.


It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game.

rouken wrote
The problem here is about creating SMS music with FM sound there's no tracker with YM2413 support to help with the music creation...


There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS.

Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment.

Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious.

rouken wrote
To make it work properly, the first thing must be checked is if it's possible to create a code who can detect the following system combinations:
> A western Master System with the FM chip
> A western Master System without the FM chip
> A Mark III with the FM Unit
> A Mark III without the FM Unit
> A japanese Master System (who have the FM chip by default)

If such detection can be checked by a code, three sound options can be provided:
> Full PSG sound
> Full FM sound
> Mixed PSG and FM sound


That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this:

;=================================================================================
; RAM
;=================================================================================

.ramsection "IO control byte" slot 3 priority 1000

IOControl          db               ; IO info left by BIOS at $C000

.ends

.ramsection "FM type" slot 3

FMType              db          ; 0 = PSG only, 1 = FM only, 2 = both

.ends               


;=================================================================================
; Detect FM
;=================================================================================

; Expects I/O control information left by BIOS in $C000.
; Expects region information in a variable called Region: 1 = export, 0 = Japan
; Results: 0 = only psg, 1 = only FM, 2 = both

.section "detect FM" free

DetectFM:

    ld a, (IOControl)
    or $04                          ; disable I/O chip
    out ($3E), a

    ld bc, $0000                    ; reset counters

-:  ld a, b
    out ($F2), a                    ; output to the audio control port

    in a, ($F2)                     ; read back
    and %00000011                   ; mask to bits 0-1 only
    cp b                            ; check what is read is the same as what was written
    jr nz, +

    inc c                           ; c = # of times the result is the same

+:  inc b                           ; increase counter
    bit 2, b                        ; repeated four times?
    jr z, -                         ; no? then repeat again

    ld a, (IOControl)
    out ($3E), a                    ; turn I/O chip back on
   
    srl c                           ; 4 --> 2; 3, 2 --> 1; 0, 1 --> 0
    ld a, c
    bit 0, c                        ; check if PSG+FM (Japanese SMS) or PSG only
    jr z, +                         ; yes? then transfer value directly

    ld a, (Region)                  ; else check region: if Region = 1 (Export)
    add a, c                        ; then 1 --> 2 (3rd party FM board), else 1 stays 1 unchanged (Mark III + FM unit)

+:  ld (FMType), a                  ; store FM type

    ret

.ends



However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13633
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:11 am
When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game...
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 13 Apr 2005
  • Posts: 246
  • Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:17 pm
Kagesan wrote
Nice work on that Konami logo. Moving the beam via color cycling is a clever idea.

Thanks, but I just used an idea already existed...





Kagesan wrote
It can be done, as ichigobankai proved with his demo of a Rick Dangerous port. The problem is that it requires a lot of line interrupts to make samples sound remotely decent, and that might interfere with running your game code, especially if you have a rather busy game.

Really? Checking... Checked!! WTFFFFFFF!!! My mind is blowing UP!!

No, really... ichigobankai... You are a f***ing GENIUS!!

I just must ask: Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples? It would be awesome to listen SMS music using some samples like some NES musics.





Kagesan wrote
There are two, actually. You can either use Moonblaster, whose replayer I have ported to the Master System and extended with some rudimentary sfx player code. The tracker has its quirks and a lot of arbitrary limitations, but it's quite capable otherwise. Sverx has also already integrated the replayer into devkitSMS.

Or you could use the SMS version of Trilo Tracker, which specifically targets a mixed PSG/FM environment.

Both trackers are native on the MSX platform, but can be run very conveniently within Emulicious.

A nice information... Thanks. I'll make sure to use this information nicely!!

Even so, I praying for a tracker with YM2413 support.





Kagesan wrote
That's exactly what I'm doing in my current project. You need to run the usual region detection code first, but with the result values switched around (!) and store the value in a variable called "Region", then do this:


INCOMPREHENSIVE CONTENT FOR UNBLESSED HUMANS



If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work. The same thing goes for the region detection thing...





Kagesan wrote
However, seeing so many creative ideas thrown around in this thread, I strongly advise to not go overboard with the features on what is basically a first game project on the SMS, as it might lead to frustration later.

No problem... I was just worred about it too.

My work with the Konami logo was because it was my suggestion, but I did without thinking if it was possible. So, I embraced the logical part.

Other suggestions as just to help with some direction choices or point some orientations... For example, I don't know how a Rocksteady and Bebop battle can be done on a SMS, because the SMS can store and display more tiles than the NES, but the flicking problem will still be a big problem.

But, to start, I'm more worried about movement and collisions, who is the foundation of this project. But creating some demos like the Konami logo, the intro scene or the title screen is a nice way to give us a taste of what wait for the future...





Maxim wrote
When the BIOS starts the game, it leaves certain stuff in system memory and video memory. Based on the finite options for that, you could use it as a foundation to add some animation to the existing logo as soon as the game boots, or to draw your own if there is none. It’s all very peripheral to an actual game...

Oh, now I see! Now I get it. Now the pieces are falling into place...

Just one question: Is it possible to make the game recognize the version of the BIOS to make use of it from case-to-case? Example: The SMS1 BIOS have the Sega Master System logo with sound, but the SMS2 have just a Sega logo without sound...
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2014
  • Posts: 621
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:08 am
rouken wrote
Is it possible to use this technique to make SMS musics using some portion of samples?


Theoretically, yes, but I don't see how that's really feasable. You'd need a PSG replayer that uses some sort of special signal value to trigger samples, which doesn't exist (yet). You'd also have to sacrifice PSG channels, so the music would probably end up sounding weird if you're not very careful. Also, this would eat up a lot of cpu time you probably don't have to spare.


rouken wrote
If you ask me, xfixium can just keep with PSG sound only and, maybe, sample using ichigobankai's sample drivers. Content using FM sound and/or mixed FM and PSG sound just after (almost) complete the project to increase the value of the finished work.


Another thing that needs to be kept in mind is that updating FM channels takes a lot more cpu time than updating PSG channels. Not quite as badly as playing samples, but enough for performance to take a hit. You can observe this for example with Power Strike/Aleste. Playing it with FM sound creates significantly more slowdown than with PSG sound only.
  View user's profile Send private message
Reply to topic



Back to the top of this page

Back to SMS Power!