Forums

I happened across this website today:

http://www.screenshotarchive.com

I downloaded the SMS scans and compared to the ones in the SMS Power! scans section, and they're almost all taken from here, and resized to be smaller.

Every page in the scans section has a link, marked "copyright", to this page,which says:

I wrote

However, you are not entitled to freely use these images without obtaining permission from the person who made the scan.

I know some people are bothered by having their scans taken and used without credit elsewhere; personally, I don't much care.

Should I email this website to point out the problem? Should I demand they remove the scans? Or should they get away with just creediting SMS Power? Remember, there's a good chance they won't even bother to read my email anyway.

That site also has some scans we're missing, including a lot of GG cartridge scans, which makes me wish people wouild submit here instead :/

Maxim wrote

Should I email this website to point out the problem? Should I demand they remove the scans? Or should they get away with just creediting SMS Power? Remember, there's a good chance they won't even bother to read my email anyway.

I think that a right and faisable request would be to ask them to credit "SMS Power! contributors" with a link to http://www.smspower.org. They already have "Provided by xxx" lines so they can do that. I would insist on the link.

Asking them to remove everything would be annoying for their users and I don't believe in taking information in hostage on our site anyway. But they should credit. If they ignore your e-mail or refuse, we can try the social word-of-mouth route to ruin their reputation. But I can't imagine them refusing to credit SMS Power anyway, unless the site is run by a 13 years old.

Generally, I would not agree that a site takes all scans at once, but this one has a specific purpose and they do it for all formats. If they had a web viewer similar to ours, I would not let them copy all the scans this way.

Quote

That site also has some scans we're missing, including a lot of GG cartridge scans, which makes me wish people wouild submit here instead :/

Don't worry. Time will elect honnest winners and survivors. ;)

Bock wrote

I don't believe in taking information in hostage on our site anyway.

Nor do I, but I got into trouble some years ago because I used other people's scans without permission. In order to "protect" these people who want exclusivity, I added that line, although I know that it's impossible (since very few contact details are available). More recently, I've credited scans to "www.sega.jp" and "Unknown eBayer" so I'm breaking that principle anyway :)

I'll email this evening asking for credit to be given. It's worth considering that it is then difficult to ask them not to take any future updated scans, or to stop them coming here and grabbing all the scans.

One more thing: I did not block directory access to directories like http://www.smspower.org/scans/sms/scans/a/. In your opinion, is having such access a good thing, or should I block it? (Note to self: .htaccess Options -Indexes)

We could start watermarking future submitions but that looks tacky.
There is a link to meka thou in the links page.

furanku wrote

We could start watermarking future submitions but that looks tacky.

NO WAY. Watermarking is stupid and evil.
Adding your site name or info on a standard picture, say, picture I could make of my game room, is ok. Adding one to a screenshot, a scan or an old video advertisement that is there to be archived, basically damage the data. Trying to setup an archive and damaging the data on the same time are contrary.

We're not getting harmed if this site is ripping us. We're just trying to get proper credit and I may say, respect.

Quote

There is a link to meka thou in the links page.

That's unrelated. They clearly not credited SMS Power neither asked.

I've been submitting information to Video Game Rebirth (http://www.vgrebirth.org) and it looks like they might be using scans from SMS Power (Example : http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6199&...)

But on the other hand, they have scans of the Japanese Great Tennis and Astro Flash packaging that aren't here and I've been asked to submit one for Line of Fire.

CRV wrote

I've been submitting information to Video Game Rebirth (http://www.vgrebirth.org) and it looks like they might be using scans from SMS Power (Example : http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6199&redirect=%2Fgames%2Fbrowse%2Easp%3Fplatform%3D18%26start%3DA%26page%3D1)

But on the other hand, they have scans of the Japanese Great Tennis and Astro Flash packaging that aren't here and I've been asked to submit one for Line of Fire.

Looking at their data, what is cristal clear is that they are borrowing data from other sites, SMS Power included. Many SG-1000 pictures are taken from Japanese sites for exemple.

However, I have to say that I am very impressed by the quality and completeness of their listing (names and alternates version). It's not perfect but it's better than anything I've seen so far on sites of this kind.

They have to be contacted as for proper crediting, and at this point Maxim may have an e-mail template =)

That's the same site that ripped off my Digital Press list of European Mega Drive games for their database a while back (I know it was because they included a couple of errors that I had later corrected at DP).
It's very nicely presented, and seems pretty well done, but giving a little credit never hurt, no?

Two reasonably polite emails sent, let's see what happens...

Hi,

Received your email concerning the images on VGRebirth. As your previous poster noted, a large chunk of our data comes from user submitted information, but clearly as SMS Power! has such a large collection of scans that it is very likely that many of them did come from this site.

As you can see from the site VGRebirth only has 200 pixel size images that are for visual confirmation of a region instead of being an image for the sake of a scan archive. To this end I hope that we can continue to use your site's hard work with the knowledge that we serve vastly different purposes.

I would certainly like to add SMS Power to any and all pages that contain images that are from this site and moreover I would like to use your site's store of scans to flesh out our sections...with your permission of course.

I would ask that someone from this site create a user identity at VGR that way I can hook that identity into our contribution system. The contributor link in the profile can contain a link back to this site as well as whatever text you'd like to put into the profile regarding SMS Power.

I would also like to ask anyone from this site that obviously shares the same passion for game collecting as I do to contribute missing information to the site... clearly we all are working to the same end.

Thanks for your consideration,
RevQuixo
Webmaster VGR

Looks like a smspower username was just established. Whomever is controlling it should go back into the profile in "My Settings" and flesh out the page to include a URL back here.

I added a sample contributor credit to this page:

http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6408

To illustrate what the finalized contribution credit will look like. Not sure if the scan came from here, but it is likely.

anagrama wrote

That's the same site that ripped off my Digital Press list of European Mega Drive games for their database a while back (I know it was because they included a couple of errors that I had later corrected at DP).
It's very nicely presented, and seems pretty well done, but giving a little credit never hurt, no?

I take a slight bit of offense at the assertion that we merely "ripped off" your list to create our Mega Drive section. Certainly if we were capturing proprietary work (such as DPs rarity system) I would say that it were true, but the realty of our game system method is to scour the entire internet to create a spreadsheet of useable data. While bits and pieces might have come from Digital Press, it also game from numerous google searches (including image searches, ebay transactions, roms etc. The entire point of VGR is to vaccuum the internet and gather up all the bits and pieces and hopefully churn out something that is relatively definitive.

Having previously scanned the DP pdfs when i started the VGR project, I can tell you that I found them lacking in terms of dealing with games that fall into the "Non-US" category. I intentionally avoided the trap of using them as much as possible, because DPs methodology for verifying a game's existence largely consisted (from an outsider perspective mind you) of someone posting a blurb in the forums and then having it added to the list. While this works to a degree, I tend to want scans, barcode info, etc, to try and figure out where a game fits regionally. Its why we use barcodes in the first place as it can differentiate between a European, Canadian, Asian, etc game with a simple string of numbers.

Mind you, I have nothing against DP and think that their user base and zeal for retro-gaming is commendable, but that's my take on the subject. Of course I know likewise VGR is full of similar snafus, but using a wikipedia mode of submissions along with asking for proof when something seems fishy tends to mean that our errors eventually get corrected.

This being said, if you can point out anything in the Euro Mega Drive section that is quantifiably "DP" data, I will be more than glad to credit you guys.

RevQuixo wrote

I take a slight bit of offense at the assertion that we merely "ripped off" your list to create our Mega Drive section. Certainly if we were capturing proprietary work (such as DPs rarity system) I would say that it were true, but the realty of our game system method is to scour the entire internet to create a spreadsheet of useable data. While bits and pieces might have come from Digital Press, it also game from numerous google searches (including image searches, ebay transactions, roms etc. The entire point of VGR is to vaccuum the internet and gather up all the bits and pieces and hopefully churn out something that is relatively definitive...

When I first saw your site some time ago, I looked through that section carefully because I hadn't able to find much existing reliable PAL info myself and was happy to find somewhere else against which I could check my details.
I noticed that there was a fair deal of crossover between the two, and looked at a few entries I had recently amended at DP. The 3 or 4 such examples I looked at all duplicated the same incorrect details that I had since modified.
To be honest, rather than be bothered by it, I was mildly flattered :) I had more or less forgotten about it until your site was mentioned on here.

Apologies for the tone of my post above, it looks like I certainly under-estimated the time spent on it and depth of research. I agree that there's no case of stealing proprietry work, and that it is information that should be freely available.
It's only because you duplicated my errors that I was aware of it.
As I said, it just would have been nice to ask (or credit). For one, I would have been able to send you an updated listing.

I agree that the non-US DP stuff is inconsistent, but that's a result of having a dozen or more editors each tackling things slightly differently. Things are becoming more unified, however.
I can't speak for other editors, but I haven't included anything that I haven't had solid proof of, and stand by the listings.

If you want to get in touch, I'd be happy to send you a current listing of the basic details. (just had a quick scan of your site and there's a couple you're missing, at least).

I'd gladly take any bits of information you can spare us.

Finding European information without a dedicated European staffer is a bit of a pain truth be told...

We have an Aussie, a Canadian, a couple of Americans (myself included) and a few of us can at the very least muddle through Japanese, but European game info is an elusive beast.

Author	Message
Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14770 Location: London	Other websites taking our scans without credit Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:42 pm
	I happened across this website today: http://www.screenshotarchive.com I downloaded the SMS scans and compared to the ones in the SMS Power! scans section, and they're almost all taken from here, and resized to be smaller. Every page in the scans section has a link, marked "copyright", to this page,which says: I wrote However, you are not entitled to freely use these images without obtaining permission from the person who made the scan. I know some people are bothered by having their scans taken and used without credit elsewhere; personally, I don't much care. Should I email this website to point out the problem? Should I demand they remove the scans? Or should they get away with just creediting SMS Power? Remember, there's a good chance they won't even bother to read my email anyway. That site also has some scans we're missing, including a lot of GG cartridge scans, which makes me wish people wouild submit here instead :/

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8675 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 2:52 pm
	Maxim wrote Should I email this website to point out the problem? Should I demand they remove the scans? Or should they get away with just creediting SMS Power? Remember, there's a good chance they won't even bother to read my email anyway. I think that a right and faisable request would be to ask them to credit "SMS Power! contributors" with a link to http://www.smspower.org. They already have "Provided by xxx" lines so they can do that. I would insist on the link. Asking them to remove everything would be annoying for their users and I don't believe in taking information in hostage on our site anyway. But they should credit. If they ignore your e-mail or refuse, we can try the social word-of-mouth route to ruin their reputation. But I can't imagine them refusing to credit SMS Power anyway, unless the site is run by a 13 years old. Generally, I would not agree that a site takes all scans at once, but this one has a specific purpose and they do it for all formats. If they had a web viewer similar to ours, I would not let them copy all the scans this way. Quote That site also has some scans we're missing, including a lot of GG cartridge scans, which makes me wish people wouild submit here instead :/ Don't worry. Time will elect honnest winners and survivors. ;)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14770 Location: London	Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:17 pm
	Bock wrote I don't believe in taking information in hostage on our site anyway. Nor do I, but I got into trouble some years ago because I used other people's scans without permission. In order to "protect" these people who want exclusivity, I added that line, although I know that it's impossible (since very few contact details are available). More recently, I've credited scans to "www.sega.jp" and "Unknown eBayer" so I'm breaking that principle anyway :) I'll email this evening asking for credit to be given. It's worth considering that it is then difficult to ask them not to take any future updated scans, or to stop them coming here and grabbing all the scans. One more thing: I did not block directory access to directories like http://www.smspower.org/scans/sms/scans/a/. In your opinion, is having such access a good thing, or should I block it? (Note to self: .htaccess Options -Indexes)

furanku Joined: 10 Dec 2000 Posts: 592 Location: Australia and Japan	watermark Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:28 pm
	We could start watermarking future submitions but that looks tacky. There is a link to meka thou in the links page.

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8675 Location: Paris, France	Re: watermark Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:49 pm
	furanku wrote We could start watermarking future submitions but that looks tacky. NO WAY. Watermarking is stupid and evil. Adding your site name or info on a standard picture, say, picture I could make of my game room, is ok. Adding one to a screenshot, a scan or an old video advertisement that is there to be archived, basically damage the data. Trying to setup an archive and damaging the data on the same time are contrary. We're not getting harmed if this site is ripping us. We're just trying to get proper credit and I may say, respect. Quote There is a link to meka thou in the links page. That's unrelated. They clearly not credited SMS Power neither asked.

CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 668	Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:30 pm
CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 668	I've been submitting information to Video Game Rebirth (http://www.vgrebirth.org) and it looks like they might be using scans from SMS Power (Example : http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6199&...) But on the other hand, they have scans of the Japanese Great Tennis and Astro Flash packaging that aren't here and I've been asked to submit one for Line of Fire.

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8675 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:19 pm
	CRV wrote I've been submitting information to Video Game Rebirth (http://www.vgrebirth.org) and it looks like they might be using scans from SMS Power (Example : http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6199&redirect=%2Fgames%2Fbrowse%2Easp%3Fplatform%3D18%26start%3DA%26page%3D1) But on the other hand, they have scans of the Japanese Great Tennis and Astro Flash packaging that aren't here and I've been asked to submit one for Line of Fire. Looking at their data, what is cristal clear is that they are borrowing data from other sites, SMS Power included. Many SG-1000 pictures are taken from Japanese sites for exemple. However, I have to say that I am very impressed by the quality and completeness of their listing (names and alternates version). It's not perfect but it's better than anything I've seen so far on sites of this kind. They have to be contacted as for proper crediting, and at this point Maxim may have an e-mail template =)

anagrama Joined: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 354 Location: Newcastle, UK	Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:16 am
	That's the same site that ripped off my Digital Press list of European Mega Drive games for their database a while back (I know it was because they included a couple of errors that I had later corrected at DP). It's very nicely presented, and seems pretty well done, but giving a little credit never hurt, no?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14770 Location: London	Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:21 pm
	Two reasonably polite emails sent, let's see what happens...

RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:56 am
RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Hi, Received your email concerning the images on VGRebirth. As your previous poster noted, a large chunk of our data comes from user submitted information, but clearly as SMS Power! has such a large collection of scans that it is very likely that many of them did come from this site. As you can see from the site VGRebirth only has 200 pixel size images that are for visual confirmation of a region instead of being an image for the sake of a scan archive. To this end I hope that we can continue to use your site's hard work with the knowledge that we serve vastly different purposes. I would certainly like to add SMS Power to any and all pages that contain images that are from this site and moreover I would like to use your site's store of scans to flesh out our sections...with your permission of course. I would ask that someone from this site create a user identity at VGR that way I can hook that identity into our contribution system. The contributor link in the profile can contain a link back to this site as well as whatever text you'd like to put into the profile regarding SMS Power. I would also like to ask anyone from this site that obviously shares the same passion for game collecting as I do to contribute missing information to the site... clearly we all are working to the same end. Thanks for your consideration, RevQuixo Webmaster VGR

RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:24 pm
RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Looks like a smspower username was just established. Whomever is controlling it should go back into the profile in "My Settings" and flesh out the page to include a URL back here. I added a sample contributor credit to this page: http://vgrebirth.org/games/game.asp?id=6408 To illustrate what the finalized contribution credit will look like. Not sure if the scan came from here, but it is likely.

RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:15 pm
RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	anagrama wrote That's the same site that ripped off my Digital Press list of European Mega Drive games for their database a while back (I know it was because they included a couple of errors that I had later corrected at DP). It's very nicely presented, and seems pretty well done, but giving a little credit never hurt, no? I take a slight bit of offense at the assertion that we merely "ripped off" your list to create our Mega Drive section. Certainly if we were capturing proprietary work (such as DPs rarity system) I would say that it were true, but the realty of our game system method is to scour the entire internet to create a spreadsheet of useable data. While bits and pieces might have come from Digital Press, it also game from numerous google searches (including image searches, ebay transactions, roms etc. The entire point of VGR is to vaccuum the internet and gather up all the bits and pieces and hopefully churn out something that is relatively definitive. Having previously scanned the DP pdfs when i started the VGR project, I can tell you that I found them lacking in terms of dealing with games that fall into the "Non-US" category. I intentionally avoided the trap of using them as much as possible, because DPs methodology for verifying a game's existence largely consisted (from an outsider perspective mind you) of someone posting a blurb in the forums and then having it added to the list. While this works to a degree, I tend to want scans, barcode info, etc, to try and figure out where a game fits regionally. Its why we use barcodes in the first place as it can differentiate between a European, Canadian, Asian, etc game with a simple string of numbers. Mind you, I have nothing against DP and think that their user base and zeal for retro-gaming is commendable, but that's my take on the subject. Of course I know likewise VGR is full of similar snafus, but using a wikipedia mode of submissions along with asking for proof when something seems fishy tends to mean that our errors eventually get corrected. This being said, if you can point out anything in the Euro Mega Drive section that is quantifiably "DP" data, I will be more than glad to credit you guys.

anagrama Joined: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 354 Location: Newcastle, UK	Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:35 pm
	RevQuixo wrote I take a slight bit of offense at the assertion that we merely "ripped off" your list to create our Mega Drive section. Certainly if we were capturing proprietary work (such as DPs rarity system) I would say that it were true, but the realty of our game system method is to scour the entire internet to create a spreadsheet of useable data. While bits and pieces might have come from Digital Press, it also game from numerous google searches (including image searches, ebay transactions, roms etc. The entire point of VGR is to vaccuum the internet and gather up all the bits and pieces and hopefully churn out something that is relatively definitive... When I first saw your site some time ago, I looked through that section carefully because I hadn't able to find much existing reliable PAL info myself and was happy to find somewhere else against which I could check my details. I noticed that there was a fair deal of crossover between the two, and looked at a few entries I had recently amended at DP. The 3 or 4 such examples I looked at all duplicated the same incorrect details that I had since modified. To be honest, rather than be bothered by it, I was mildly flattered :) I had more or less forgotten about it until your site was mentioned on here. Apologies for the tone of my post above, it looks like I certainly under-estimated the time spent on it and depth of research. I agree that there's no case of stealing proprietry work, and that it is information that should be freely available. It's only because you duplicated my errors that I was aware of it. As I said, it just would have been nice to ask (or credit). For one, I would have been able to send you an updated listing. I agree that the non-US DP stuff is inconsistent, but that's a result of having a dozen or more editors each tackling things slightly differently. Things are becoming more unified, however. I can't speak for other editors, but I haven't included anything that I haven't had solid proof of, and stand by the listings. If you want to get in touch, I'd be happy to send you a current listing of the basic details. (just had a quick scan of your site and there's a couple you're missing, at least).

RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:17 am
RevQuixo Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 5	I'd gladly take any bits of information you can spare us. Finding European information without a dedicated European staffer is a bit of a pain truth be told... We have an Aussie, a Canadian, a couple of Americans (myself included) and a few of us can at the very least muddle through Japanese, but European game info is an elusive beast.

Forums

View topic - Other websites taking our scans without credit