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I was told recently by Masato (Loose-Logic) who won a SMS dev cartridge (the model with two connectors, shown http://www.smspower.org/misc/collections/omar-collection-boards.html) of R-Type, that it originated from COMPILE.

So I gave a look at the code and compared it with Golvellius:



Golvellius                           R-Type


00000000: F3        DI               00000000: F3        DI          


00000001: ED 56     IM 1             00000001: ED 56     IM 1        


00000003: 21 FC FF  LD HL,FFFCh      00000003: 21 FC FF  LD HL,FFFCh 


00000006: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      00000006: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


00000008: 2C        INC L            00000008: 2C        INC L       


00000009: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      00000009: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


0000000B: 2C        INC L            0000000B: 2C        INC L       


0000000C: 36 01     LD (HL),01h      0000000C: 36 01     LD (HL),01h 


0000000E: 2C        INC L            0000000E: 2C        INC L       


0000000F: 36 02     LD (HL),02h      0000000F: 36 02     LD (HL),02h 


00000011: 21 01 C0  LD HL,C001h      00000011: 21 01 C0  LD HL,C001h 


00000014: 11 02 C0  LD DE,C002h      00000014: 11 02 C0  LD DE,C002h 


00000017: 01 EE 1F  LD BC,1FEEh      00000017: 01 EE 1F  LD BC,1FEEh 


0000001A: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      0000001A: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


0000001C: ED B0     LDIR             0000001C: ED B0     LDIR        


0000001E: F9        LD SP,HL         0000001E: F9        LD SP,HL    


0000001F: 3A 00 C0  LD A,(C000h)     0000001F: 3A 00 C0  LD A,(C000h)


00000022: 32 01 C0  LD (C001h),A     00000022: 32 01 C0  LD (C001h),A


00000025: CD 7F 00  CALL 007Fh       00000025: CD 6F 00  CALL 006Fh  


00000028: CD A1 00  CALL 00A1h       00000028: CD 91 00  CALL 0091h  


0000002B: B7        OR A             0000002B: B7        OR A        


0000002C: CC 93 00  CALL Z,0093h     0000002C: CC 83 00  CALL Z,0083h


0000002F: CD C3 00  CALL 00C3h       0000002F: CD B3 00  CALL 00B3h  


00000032: CD 24 03  CALL 0324h       00000032: CD DF 06  CALL 06DFh  


00000035: C3 05 04  JP 0405h         00000035: C3 14 0A  JP 0A14h    


00000038: F5        PUSH AF          00000038: F5        PUSH AF

The probability for code from different sources to be so similar is nearly null... so very likely COMPILE did the port of R-Type to the Master System! Although there's no mention of that in the game.

If you think about it, developpers were not well credited back in the days, and few teams were working on the SMS. So that is fairly logical: interesting porting projects were done by teams already working on SMS.

We may want to look the same at other "ported" games (Double Dragon, Ys, etc.).

It's fantastic to think that after 15 years, people can get credited for their job.

kinda makes you wonder how many games compile ported???

Quote

> I was told recently by Masato (Loose-Logic) who won a SMS dev cartridge (the model with two connectors, shown http://www.smspower.org/misc/collections/omar-collection-boards.html) of R-Type, that it originated from COMPILE.

> So I gave a look at the code and compared it with Golvellius:
>



> Golvellius                           R-Type


> 00000000: F3        DI               00000000: F3        DI          


> 00000001: ED 56     IM 1             00000001: ED 56     IM 1        


> 00000003: 21 FC FF  LD HL,FFFCh      00000003: 21 FC FF  LD HL,FFFCh 


> 00000006: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      00000006: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


> 00000008: 2C        INC L            00000008: 2C        INC L       


> 00000009: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      00000009: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


> 0000000B: 2C        INC L            0000000B: 2C        INC L       


> 0000000C: 36 01     LD (HL),01h      0000000C: 36 01     LD (HL),01h 


> 0000000E: 2C        INC L            0000000E: 2C        INC L       


> 0000000F: 36 02     LD (HL),02h      0000000F: 36 02     LD (HL),02h 


> 00000011: 21 01 C0  LD HL,C001h      00000011: 21 01 C0  LD HL,C001h 


> 00000014: 11 02 C0  LD DE,C002h      00000014: 11 02 C0  LD DE,C002h 


> 00000017: 01 EE 1F  LD BC,1FEEh      00000017: 01 EE 1F  LD BC,1FEEh 


> 0000001A: 36 00     LD (HL),00h      0000001A: 36 00     LD (HL),00h 


> 0000001C: ED B0     LDIR             0000001C: ED B0     LDIR        


> 0000001E: F9        LD SP,HL         0000001E: F9        LD SP,HL    


> 0000001F: 3A 00 C0  LD A,(C000h)     0000001F: 3A 00 C0  LD A,(C000h)


> 00000022: 32 01 C0  LD (C001h),A     00000022: 32 01 C0  LD (C001h),A


> 00000025: CD 7F 00  CALL 007Fh       00000025: CD 6F 00  CALL 006Fh  


> 00000028: CD A1 00  CALL 00A1h       00000028: CD 91 00  CALL 0091h  


> 0000002B: B7        OR A             0000002B: B7        OR A        


> 0000002C: CC 93 00  CALL Z,0093h     0000002C: CC 83 00  CALL Z,0083h


> 0000002F: CD C3 00  CALL 00C3h       0000002F: CD B3 00  CALL 00B3h  


> 00000032: CD 24 03  CALL 0324h       00000032: CD DF 06  CALL 06DFh  


> 00000035: C3 05 04  JP 0405h         00000035: C3 14 0A  JP 0A14h    


> 00000038: F5        PUSH AF          00000038: F5        PUSH AF


>

> The probability for code from different sources to be so similar is nearly null... so very likely COMPILE did the port of R-Type to the Master System! Although there's no mention of that in the game.

Wow, that's a cool find... It reminds me of Ancient not being credited for the SMS version of Sonic 1.

Say... How hard would it be to make a program to find automatically the ROMs that share the same engine? Or maybe implement it to Maxim's SMS Checker? It wouldn't be something of vital importance, but very informative at least...

Quote

> Wow, that's a cool find... It reminds me of Ancient not
> being credited for the SMS version of Sonic 1.

> Say... How hard would it be to make a program to
> find automatically the ROMs that share the same
> engine? Or maybe implement it to Maxim's SMS Checker?
> It wouldn't be something of vital importance, but very
> informative at least...

I think it's faisible.

One idea would be that a disassembler (eg: Martin's SMS Examine) could output a list of ordered instructions with all reference to memory addresses removed (but immediate value would be kept).

Then, another tool could analyze both of those logs and search for matching sequences. An heuristic value then could be computed based on the frequency and length of matching code sequences.

I think it would work well this way. For exemple, SMS/GG ports of a same game could get a rating of ~90%, while R-Type and Golvellius would probably get something between 5% and 50% (just a guess).

It also has the advantage that with a bit more elaboration, we could generate a database of all code reusage accross all Sega 8-bits games.

I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

Tera Homepage (japanese) apparently have many credits (R-Type is listed as COMPILE here), especially for SG-1000 games:

http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/tera/sega/datas/sg_list.html

Border Line, Safari Hunting : Compile
Pop Flamer, Exerion : Jaleco
Sega Galala : Namco
Zippy Race : Irem
Lode Runner : Broderbund
Hustle Chumy : Compile
Konami no Shinnyushain Tooru Kun : Konami (obviously)
Konami no Hyper Sports : Konami (...)
Star Force : Tehkan
Othello : Tsukuda Original
Space Invaders : Taito
The Castle : ASCII
Choplifter : Broderbund, Compile
Pitfall II : Activision
Drol : Broderbund
Chack'n Pop : Taito
Rockn' Bolt : Activision
Elevator Action : Taito
Soukoban : Thinking Rabbit
Championship Lode Runner : Broderbund
H.E.R.O. : Activision
Bomb Jack : Tehkan
Gulkave : Compile
The Black Onyx : BPS

I'm unsure where they got all information, and weither they are all developers. I wonder if Broderbund really developped for SG-1000.

Quote

>[...]
> I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway.

But if someone else wants to do it, that would be great :)

Quote

> >[...]
> > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

> It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway.

Would you release your sources to help ?
I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler.

Quote

> But if someone else wants to do it, that would be great :)

Hmm, no time currently either. :(

Quote

> > >[...]
> > > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

> > It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway.

> Would you release your sources to help ?
> I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler.

No, sorry, I'm not going to do that. It would be too much work to comment the source and explain it ;) And I don't even think someone would work with it.

I will probably work on it again, but I don't know when and I don't know in what form.

Quote

> > > >[...]
> > > > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

> > > It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway.

> > Would you release your sources to help ?
> > I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler.

> No, sorry, I'm not going to do that. It would be too much work to comment the source and explain it ;) And I don't even think someone would work with it.

Non commented sources are better than nothing.
I myself released my SMS code for exemple, knowing that it is pure crap, but it helped a few people :)

Also, adding such kind functionnality (for exemple) doesn't require much knowledge of the inner structure. It's always possible to write something that parse the disassembler output, but that's a bit reinventing the whell.

Quote

> I will probably work on it again, but I don't know when and I don't know in what form.

Ok.

Quote

> I'm unsure where they got all information, and weither they are all developers. I wonder if Broderbund really developped for SG-1000.

The way I try to make sense of these things are there are three main phases of a game's production:

(1) Developer: Original company that creates the game.

(2) Conversion: Company that takes the original game and programs it for a particular platform.

(3) Publisher: The company that actually publishes the game.

To make things more specific (and complicated) you can add the following to the above:

(1) Add specific development team (i.e. Sonic Team, AM2, etc).

(2) Add translation / regionalization information (i.e. SoA, SoE, Tec Toy, etc). Of course this could also be applied at the publisher level, but probably fits better here.

(3) Add Distributor if different from publisher (i.e. Tonka, Irwin, etc).

My guess about the SG-1000 list is that they were referring to the Original Developers. So Broderbund made the *original* Lode Runner, but probably had nothing to do with the SG-1000 conversion of it.

Isn't there a chance, that the code is from an official development library used by both games?

Marc Klemp wrote

Isn't there a chance, that the code is from an official development library used by both games?

There was no library provided by Sega to developers AFAIK.
Well, there's still a chance that the code has been extracted from somewhere, but it's not very probable. It's possible that Sega has been sharing code among selected developers. I don't know.

In this exact case, the site listing R-Type SMS as being from Compile and the board my friend in addition to the similar code remove any doubt.

Bringing back a old topic, but with interesting news.

Checking the old Compile site, I found:

Games developed to Mark 3:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010718044451/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/mk3.html

Games developed to SG-1000:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010718045741/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/sg.html

Games developed to GG:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010718043613/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/gg.html

Index:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010628043616/www.compile.co.jp/game/index.html

PD

Excellent find!

Quick translation of game names:

For Mark III / Master System:

Maou Golvellius (Golvellius)
Casino Games *new info*
Aleste (Power Strike)
R-Type
Party Games (Family Games, Parlour Games) *new info*
Ghostbusters *new info*

Casino Games, Party Games and Ghostbusters being developped by Compile is a news.

Interesting that they mention "Party Games" since the game is officially named Family Games in Japan and Parlour Games in US/Europe. :)

Note also that they don't mention Power Strike II for Master System... don't know why.

For SG-1000:

Champion Billiard *new info*
Gulkave
C_So! *new info*
Choplifter *new info*
Championship Lode Runner *new info*
Hustle Chumy
Border Line *new info*
Safari Hunting *new info*
N-Sub *new info*

See the three last games on the list, we're talking about the first SG-1000 games. The first Sega home console games were developped by Compile.

For Game Gear

Mahou Monogatari I, II, III, A
Aleste I and II
Puyo Puyo, Puyo Puyo 2
Nazo Puyo, Nazo Puyo 2, Nazo Puyo Aruru no Ru

No news there.

Very interesting.

Bock wrote

Ghostbusters *new info*

Didn't Compile also do the Gen/MD version?

Bock wrote

C_So! *new info*

Not news (in MSX circles, anyway)...

Bock wrote

See the three last games on the list, we're talking about the first SG-1000 games. The first Sega home console games were developped by Compile.

Did Sega have some part-ownership in Compile or something?

CRV wrote

Bock wrote

Ghostbusters *new info*

Didn't Compile also do the Gen/MD version?

Yes. It's on their website, in the Megadrive section.

Quote

Did Sega have some part-ownership in Compile or something?

No idea...

One thing I noticed is that the trademark Compile sound is in the Sound Test. To get to it, you have to be at 00, hold 2 and press left. Then, you can cycle backwards through the sounds. This sound is used in every compile game (I'm pretty sure). It's the 1 up sound from Zanac and Power Strike.

Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is?

Also I'm interested in seeing all those lists for the various systems on the Compile site but for some reason all the Japanese text is messed up for me. I have Japanese text support but it's not working on that site. I could get the names if I could see the katakana. Anyone know how I could fix the text?

Your browser should have a menu to choose "Encoding". Set it to "Auto", "East Asian", "Japanese" or, at the last step, "Shift-JIS". In Firefox, View -> Character Encoding -> Auto-Detect -> one of those options (I use East Asian).

Bock wrote

Note also that they don't mention Power Strike II for Master System... don't know why.

Turns out they do...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010718043631/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/ma.html

Listed under "Ma-Sys (USA)."

Maxim wrote

Your browser should have a menu to choose "Encoding". Set it to "Auto", "East Asian", "Japanese" or, at the last step, "Shift-JIS". In Firefox, View -> Character Encoding -> Auto-Detect -> one of those options (I use East Asian).

Thanks. It shows up completely blank under Japanese but it works on the Chinese setting. I can't figure out the names with those characters though. I'll fiddle with it more. There doesn't seem to be an East Asian setting with my Internet Explorer.

*edit - once I restarted my computer it worked.

NeoZeedeater wrote

Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is?

I looked through the ROM image a while ago, looking for exactly that information. The credits are there (enclosed below), but none of the names mentioned are the usual Compile names. Since Compile otherwise was a very tightly-knit group through twenty years, it seems unlikely that they would hire a dozen new employees for one mediocre shooter (Bomber raid is hardly Aleste material), then fire them again.

Program: CHICKEN JUN, KIMURON, BOARD KOBA, ATSUBANBA
Sound: OHTORII
Planning: HIDE ITOEN
Visuel design: NANNORIO, HIDE ITOEN
Special thanks: R NAKAMURA, HARUCHAN, CUP OZEKI, HIROKUN, NOBORUNRUN

idrougge wrote

NeoZeedeater wrote

Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is?

I looked through the ROM image a while ago, looking for exactly that information. The credits are there (enclosed below), but none of the names mentioned are the usual Compile names.
Program: CHICKEN JUN, KIMURON, BOARD KOBA, ATSUBANBA
Sound: OHTORII
Planning: HIDE ITOEN
Visuel design: NANNORIO, HIDE ITOEN
Special thanks: R NAKAMURA, HARUCHAN, CUP OZEKI, HIROKUN, NOBORUNRUN

Many of those names show up (quick GREP) in an interestingly limited series of SMS Roms.

Chicken Jun : Programmer in Slapshot & Alien Syndrome
Kimuron : Programmer in Wanted
Ootorii (note the spelling) : SOUND_DESIGN in Wanted, Composer in SlapShot
Nannorio : VISUAL_DESIGN in Wanted, Planning in Double Hawk, Planning in Assault City, Special Thanks in Golf Mania, Listed in Tennis Ace.
Hide Itoen : Planner in Slapshot, Tennis Ace
Noborunrun: Director: Double Hawk, Tennis Ace ("NOBORIN" is thanked in Assault city)

You mention grep so I'll assume you're a *nix fiend with a penchant for Perl scripts and other forms of masochism. This may be too wild an assumption.

Could you cook something up with RomSearcher or something equivalent (since that's interactive, it might be unscriptable) to do a similar task? Some kind of "RomGrep" perhaps. You can probably do it with a regular expression anyway, but I have no clue how.

Yeah, sorry, I made RomSearcher interactive. But the C(++) source is there so if you know your C, you could easily make it all command-line based.

http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/romsearchera.html#download

Oh, by the way, I did read the secret hidden in the source, but I'm still here, both kidneys.

Maxim wrote

You mention grep so I'll assume you're a *nix fiend with a penchant for Perl scripts and other forms of masochism. This may be too wild an assumption.
Could you cook something up with url=http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/romsearcher.html]RomSearcher[/url]

Sorry it is to much of assumption! - I have zero scripting skills :(
To find these I used a mix of unix grep and Wingrep http://www.wingrep.com/

To further add to the puzzle a "Nannorio" and "Ciikin Jun" show up in the credits of this arcade game "Kiki-Ippatsu Mayumi-chan"
Uvlist lists the publisher as "Victory L.L.C." but the credits also say its a "Sanritsu" game.

Sanritsu have known ties to Sega - there's Gamegear titles credited to them (Fantasy Zone Gear) as well as other Sega Arcade titles (They apparently originally developed "Bank Panic") & Appoooh - the Wrestling Game)

Guys, guys, Sega wasn't trying to hide anything from us. In the American television commercials for the Sega Master System, the name "Compile" was displayed at the bottom of footage from R-Type. You can't give the designers of a game much more credit than that!

What's really a surprise is that Compile also designed the first Godzilla game for the NES. It sure looked and felt like their work, but it was only after a fellow NES fan searched for the word "Compile" in the code that the game's origins were revealed. This company's made a lot of fantastic games... it's a shame they're not still around.

JR

They made Godzilla-kun for the MSX, too. It must be one of their earliest games. If you search the code for that game, you'll find a long story by one of the programmers about the day-to-day goings-on at Compile headquarters back in the day, as well as a bit or two about the contacts with Toho, who wanted to change the title (and the artist wept, for he had already drawn a title screen). It seems that they were based in Hiroshima back then, but moved to Saitama (just north of Tokyo) after that.

Nowadays, the remnants of Compile are in a new company called Aiky, still based in Saitama. Moo Nitani is still their boss.

Cool, Aiky retained most of their intellectual properties, too! That opens the door for Aleste and Guardian Legend sequels on the next generation of handheld systems!

(It looks like Sega kept Puyo Puyo, but who cares? Both Sega and Compile had wrung that series dry over the past decade. There's only so many ways you can stack piles of blobs before it becomes redundant)

JR

Heh, looks like they also retained the rights to Gurulogi Champ, or at least to the used characters.

I guess these changes in the company were the reason why SEGA had to change the characters for Puyo Pop Fever. Arle just makes a small cameo in the Vs mode (with a different design, of course) and Carbunkle is nowhere to be seen. I was pretty disappointed with that, myself. =\

EDIT: By the way, any clues on what's this and this about? There's many Compile games, some of them for the MSX (including Golvellious)...

The first link is about Diskstation, a diskmag published by Compile in the late eighties/early nineties. DS was filled with small games (and larger ones published in instalments to keep you buying the next issue), rereleases of older softs, and example code.
The second link is for some kind of pay-to-play official emulator.

Author	Message
Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	R-Type by COMPILE Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:30 am
	I was told recently by Masato (Loose-Logic) who won a SMS dev cartridge (the model with two connectors, shown http://www.smspower.org/misc/collections/omar-collection-boards.html) of R-Type, that it originated from COMPILE. So I gave a look at the code and compared it with Golvellius: Golvellius R-Type 00000000: F3 DI 00000000: F3 DI 00000001: ED 56 IM 1 00000001: ED 56 IM 1 00000003: 21 FC FF LD HL,FFFCh 00000003: 21 FC FF LD HL,FFFCh 00000006: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 00000006: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 00000008: 2C INC L 00000008: 2C INC L 00000009: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 00000009: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 0000000B: 2C INC L 0000000B: 2C INC L 0000000C: 36 01 LD (HL),01h 0000000C: 36 01 LD (HL),01h 0000000E: 2C INC L 0000000E: 2C INC L 0000000F: 36 02 LD (HL),02h 0000000F: 36 02 LD (HL),02h 00000011: 21 01 C0 LD HL,C001h 00000011: 21 01 C0 LD HL,C001h 00000014: 11 02 C0 LD DE,C002h 00000014: 11 02 C0 LD DE,C002h 00000017: 01 EE 1F LD BC,1FEEh 00000017: 01 EE 1F LD BC,1FEEh 0000001A: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 0000001A: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 0000001C: ED B0 LDIR 0000001C: ED B0 LDIR 0000001E: F9 LD SP,HL 0000001E: F9 LD SP,HL 0000001F: 3A 00 C0 LD A,(C000h) 0000001F: 3A 00 C0 LD A,(C000h) 00000022: 32 01 C0 LD (C001h),A 00000022: 32 01 C0 LD (C001h),A 00000025: CD 7F 00 CALL 007Fh 00000025: CD 6F 00 CALL 006Fh 00000028: CD A1 00 CALL 00A1h 00000028: CD 91 00 CALL 0091h 0000002B: B7 OR A 0000002B: B7 OR A 0000002C: CC 93 00 CALL Z,0093h 0000002C: CC 83 00 CALL Z,0083h 0000002F: CD C3 00 CALL 00C3h 0000002F: CD B3 00 CALL 00B3h 00000032: CD 24 03 CALL 0324h 00000032: CD DF 06 CALL 06DFh 00000035: C3 05 04 JP 0405h 00000035: C3 14 0A JP 0A14h 00000038: F5 PUSH AF 00000038: F5 PUSH AF The probability for code from different sources to be so similar is nearly null... so very likely COMPILE did the port of R-Type to the Master System! Although there's no mention of that in the game. If you think about it, developpers were not well credited back in the days, and few teams were working on the SMS. So that is fairly logical: interesting porting projects were done by teams already working on SMS. We may want to look the same at other "ported" games (Double Dragon, Ys, etc.). It's fantastic to think that after 15 years, people can get credited for their job.

Youltar Site Admin Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 306 Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.	Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:48 pm
	kinda makes you wonder how many games compile ported???

ICEknight Joined: 03 Apr 2001 Posts: 601 Location: Asturias	Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:59 pm
	Quote > I was told recently by Masato (Loose-Logic) who won a SMS dev cartridge (the model with two connectors, shown http://www.smspower.org/misc/collections/omar-collection-boards.html) of R-Type, that it originated from COMPILE. > So I gave a look at the code and compared it with Golvellius: > > Golvellius R-Type > 00000000: F3 DI 00000000: F3 DI > 00000001: ED 56 IM 1 00000001: ED 56 IM 1 > 00000003: 21 FC FF LD HL,FFFCh 00000003: 21 FC FF LD HL,FFFCh > 00000006: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 00000006: 36 00 LD (HL),00h > 00000008: 2C INC L 00000008: 2C INC L > 00000009: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 00000009: 36 00 LD (HL),00h > 0000000B: 2C INC L 0000000B: 2C INC L > 0000000C: 36 01 LD (HL),01h 0000000C: 36 01 LD (HL),01h > 0000000E: 2C INC L 0000000E: 2C INC L > 0000000F: 36 02 LD (HL),02h 0000000F: 36 02 LD (HL),02h > 00000011: 21 01 C0 LD HL,C001h 00000011: 21 01 C0 LD HL,C001h > 00000014: 11 02 C0 LD DE,C002h 00000014: 11 02 C0 LD DE,C002h > 00000017: 01 EE 1F LD BC,1FEEh 00000017: 01 EE 1F LD BC,1FEEh > 0000001A: 36 00 LD (HL),00h 0000001A: 36 00 LD (HL),00h > 0000001C: ED B0 LDIR 0000001C: ED B0 LDIR > 0000001E: F9 LD SP,HL 0000001E: F9 LD SP,HL > 0000001F: 3A 00 C0 LD A,(C000h) 0000001F: 3A 00 C0 LD A,(C000h) > 00000022: 32 01 C0 LD (C001h),A 00000022: 32 01 C0 LD (C001h),A > 00000025: CD 7F 00 CALL 007Fh 00000025: CD 6F 00 CALL 006Fh > 00000028: CD A1 00 CALL 00A1h 00000028: CD 91 00 CALL 0091h > 0000002B: B7 OR A 0000002B: B7 OR A > 0000002C: CC 93 00 CALL Z,0093h 0000002C: CC 83 00 CALL Z,0083h > 0000002F: CD C3 00 CALL 00C3h 0000002F: CD B3 00 CALL 00B3h > 00000032: CD 24 03 CALL 0324h 00000032: CD DF 06 CALL 06DFh > 00000035: C3 05 04 JP 0405h 00000035: C3 14 0A JP 0A14h > 00000038: F5 PUSH AF 00000038: F5 PUSH AF > > The probability for code from different sources to be so similar is nearly null... so very likely COMPILE did the port of R-Type to the Master System! Although there's no mention of that in the game. Wow, that's a cool find... It reminds me of Ancient not being credited for the SMS version of Sonic 1. Say... How hard would it be to make a program to find automatically the ROMs that share the same engine? Or maybe implement it to Maxim's SMS Checker? It wouldn't be something of vital importance, but very informative at least...

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Heuristic Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:24 pm
	Quote > Wow, that's a cool find... It reminds me of Ancient not > being credited for the SMS version of Sonic 1. > Say... How hard would it be to make a program to > find automatically the ROMs that share the same > engine? Or maybe implement it to Maxim's SMS Checker? > It wouldn't be something of vital importance, but very > informative at least... I think it's faisible. One idea would be that a disassembler (eg: Martin's SMS Examine) could output a list of ordered instructions with all reference to memory addresses removed (but immediate value would be kept). Then, another tool could analyze both of those logs and search for matching sequences. An heuristic value then could be computed based on the frequency and length of matching code sequences. I think it would work well this way. For exemple, SMS/GG ports of a same game could get a rating of ~90%, while R-Type and Golvellius would probably get something between 5% and 50% (just a guess). It also has the advantage that with a bit more elaboration, we could generate a database of all code reusage accross all Sega 8-bits games. I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;)

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Many SG-1000 credits Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:33 am
	Tera Homepage (japanese) apparently have many credits (R-Type is listed as COMPILE here), especially for SG-1000 games: http://www6.airnet.ne.jp/tera/sega/datas/sg_list.html Border Line, Safari Hunting : Compile Pop Flamer, Exerion : Jaleco Sega Galala : Namco Zippy Race : Irem Lode Runner : Broderbund Hustle Chumy : Compile Konami no Shinnyushain Tooru Kun : Konami (obviously) Konami no Hyper Sports : Konami (...) Star Force : Tehkan Othello : Tsukuda Original Space Invaders : Taito The Castle : ASCII Choplifter : Broderbund, Compile Pitfall II : Activision Drol : Broderbund Chack'n Pop : Taito Rockn' Bolt : Activision Elevator Action : Taito Soukoban : Thinking Rabbit Championship Lode Runner : Broderbund H.E.R.O. : Activision Bomb Jack : Tehkan Gulkave : Compile The Black Onyx : BPS I'm unsure where they got all information, and weither they are all developers. I wonder if Broderbund really developped for SG-1000.

Martin Guest	Re: Heuristic Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:39 pm
Martin Guest	Quote >[...] > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;) It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway. But if someone else wants to do it, that would be great :)

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Re: Heuristic Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:22 pm
	Quote > >[...] > > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;) > It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway. Would you release your sources to help ? I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler. Quote > But if someone else wants to do it, that would be great :) Hmm, no time currently either. :(

Martin Guest	Re: Heuristic Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:59 pm
Martin Guest	Quote > > >[...] > > > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;) > > It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway. > Would you release your sources to help ? > I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler. No, sorry, I'm not going to do that. It would be too much work to comment the source and explain it ;) And I don't even think someone would work with it. I will probably work on it again, but I don't know when and I don't know in what form.

Guest	Re: Heuristic Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:12 pm
Guest	Quote > > > >[...] > > > > I don't know if anyone would have the time to do such thing, however. Martin? ;) > > > It sounds great. But unfortunately I don't have the time for this. Also, I'm not working on SMS Examine anymore anyway. > > Would you release your sources to help ? > > I think it's really easier to do such tool along with a disassembler. > No, sorry, I'm not going to do that. It would be too much work to comment the source and explain it ;) And I don't even think someone would work with it. Non commented sources are better than nothing. I myself released my SMS code for exemple, knowing that it is pure crap, but it helped a few people :) Also, adding such kind functionnality (for exemple) doesn't require much knowledge of the inner structure. It's always possible to write something that parse the disassembler output, but that's a bit reinventing the whell. Quote > I will probably work on it again, but I don't know when and I don't know in what form. Ok.

Falcon Guest	Re: Many SG-1000 credits Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:54 am
Falcon Guest	Quote > I'm unsure where they got all information, and weither they are all developers. I wonder if Broderbund really developped for SG-1000. The way I try to make sense of these things are there are three main phases of a game's production: (1) Developer: Original company that creates the game. (2) Conversion: Company that takes the original game and programs it for a particular platform. (3) Publisher: The company that actually publishes the game. To make things more specific (and complicated) you can add the following to the above: (1) Add specific development team (i.e. Sonic Team, AM2, etc). (2) Add translation / regionalization information (i.e. SoA, SoE, Tec Toy, etc). Of course this could also be applied at the publisher level, but probably fits better here. (3) Add Distributor if different from publisher (i.e. Tonka, Irwin, etc). My guess about the SG-1000 list is that they were referring to the Original Developers. So Broderbund made the original Lode Runner, but probably had nothing to do with the SG-1000 conversion of it.

MarcK Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 212 Location: Denmark	Re: Many SG-1000 credits Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:37 pm
MarcK Joined: 10 Apr 2002 Posts: 212 Location: Denmark	Isn't there a chance, that the code is from an official development library used by both games?

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Re: Many SG-1000 credits Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 5:44 pm
	Marc Klemp wrote Isn't there a chance, that the code is from an official development library used by both games? There was no library provided by Sega to developers AFAIK. Well, there's still a chance that the code has been extracted from somewhere, but it's not very probable. It's possible that Sega has been sharing code among selected developers. I don't know. In this exact case, the site listing R-Type SMS as being from Compile and the board my friend in addition to the similar code remove any doubt.

PrOfUnD Darkness Joined: 29 Jun 1999 Posts: 389 Location: Brazil	Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:59 pm
	Bringing back a old topic, but with interesting news. Checking the old Compile site, I found: Games developed to Mark 3: http://web.archive.org/web/20010718044451/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/mk3.html Games developed to SG-1000: http://web.archive.org/web/20010718045741/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/sg.html Games developed to GG: http://web.archive.org/web/20010718043613/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/gg.html Index: http://web.archive.org/web/20010628043616/www.compile.co.jp/game/index.html PD

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:32 pm
	Excellent find! Quick translation of game names: For Mark III / Master System: Maou Golvellius (Golvellius) Casino Games *new info* Aleste (Power Strike) R-Type Party Games (Family Games, Parlour Games) *new info* Ghostbusters *new info* Casino Games, Party Games and Ghostbusters being developped by Compile is a news. Interesting that they mention "Party Games" since the game is officially named Family Games in Japan and Parlour Games in US/Europe. :) Note also that they don't mention Power Strike II for Master System... don't know why. For SG-1000: Champion Billiard *new info* Gulkave C_So! *new info* Choplifter *new info* Championship Lode Runner *new info* Hustle Chumy Border Line *new info* Safari Hunting *new info* N-Sub *new info* See the three last games on the list, we're talking about the first SG-1000 games. The first Sega home console games were developped by Compile. For Game Gear Mahou Monogatari I, II, III, A Aleste I and II Puyo Puyo, Puyo Puyo 2 Nazo Puyo, Nazo Puyo 2, Nazo Puyo Aruru no Ru No news there.

CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 669	Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:09 pm
CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 669	Very interesting. Bock wrote Ghostbusters *new info* Didn't Compile also do the Gen/MD version? Bock wrote C_So! *new info* Not news (in MSX circles, anyway)... Bock wrote See the three last games on the list, we're talking about the first SG-1000 games. The first Sega home console games were developped by Compile. Did Sega have some part-ownership in Compile or something?

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8703 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:38 pm
	CRV wrote Bock wrote Ghostbusters *new info* Didn't Compile also do the Gen/MD version? Yes. It's on their website, in the Megadrive section. Quote Did Sega have some part-ownership in Compile or something? No idea...

B Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 233 Location: Boston, MA, USA	Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:36 pm
	One thing I noticed is that the trademark Compile sound is in the Sound Test. To get to it, you have to be at 00, hold 2 and press left. Then, you can cycle backwards through the sounds. This sound is used in every compile game (I'm pretty sure). It's the 1 up sound from Zanac and Power Strike.

NeoZeedeater Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Vancouver, Canada	Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:48 pm
	Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is? Also I'm interested in seeing all those lists for the various systems on the Compile site but for some reason all the Japanese text is messed up for me. I have Japanese text support but it's not working on that site. I could get the names if I could see the katakana. Anyone know how I could fix the text?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14959 Location: London	(OT) Browser encodings Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:40 pm
	Your browser should have a menu to choose "Encoding". Set it to "Auto", "East Asian", "Japanese" or, at the last step, "Shift-JIS". In Firefox, View -> Character Encoding -> Auto-Detect -> one of those options (I use East Asian).

CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 669	Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:17 pm
CRV Joined: 02 Jan 2005 Posts: 669	Bock wrote Note also that they don't mention Power Strike II for Master System... don't know why. Turns out they do... http://web.archive.org/web/20010718043631/www.compile.co.jp/game/other/ma.html Listed under "Ma-Sys (USA)."

NeoZeedeater Joined: 14 Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Vancouver, Canada	Re: (OT) Browser encodings Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:15 am
	Maxim wrote Your browser should have a menu to choose "Encoding". Set it to "Auto", "East Asian", "Japanese" or, at the last step, "Shift-JIS". In Firefox, View -> Character Encoding -> Auto-Detect -> one of those options (I use East Asian). Thanks. It shows up completely blank under Japanese but it works on the Chinese setting. I can't figure out the names with those characters though. I'll fiddle with it more. There doesn't seem to be an East Asian setting with my Internet Explorer. *edit - once I restarted my computer it worked.

idrougge Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 1:31 am
	NeoZeedeater wrote Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is? I looked through the ROM image a while ago, looking for exactly that information. The credits are there (enclosed below), but none of the names mentioned are the usual Compile names. Since Compile otherwise was a very tightly-knit group through twenty years, it seems unlikely that they would hire a dozen new employees for one mediocre shooter (Bomber raid is hardly Aleste material), then fire them again. Program: CHICKEN JUN, KIMURON, BOARD KOBA, ATSUBANBA Sound: OHTORII Planning: HIDE ITOEN Visuel design: NANNORIO, HIDE ITOEN Special thanks: R NAKAMURA, HARUCHAN, CUP OZEKI, HIROKUN, NOBORUNRUN

guest Guest	Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 9:48 am
guest Guest	idrougge wrote NeoZeedeater wrote Although it isn't listed on the Compile site archive shown Bomber Raid totally seems like a Compile game with its Aleste similarities. Can anyone confirm that it is? I looked through the ROM image a while ago, looking for exactly that information. The credits are there (enclosed below), but none of the names mentioned are the usual Compile names. Program: CHICKEN JUN, KIMURON, BOARD KOBA, ATSUBANBA Sound: OHTORII Planning: HIDE ITOEN Visuel design: NANNORIO, HIDE ITOEN Special thanks: R NAKAMURA, HARUCHAN, CUP OZEKI, HIROKUN, NOBORUNRUN Many of those names show up (quick GREP) in an interestingly limited series of SMS Roms. Chicken Jun : Programmer in Slapshot & Alien Syndrome Kimuron : Programmer in Wanted Ootorii (note the spelling) : SOUND_DESIGN in Wanted, Composer in SlapShot Nannorio : VISUAL_DESIGN in Wanted, Planning in Double Hawk, Planning in Assault City, Special Thanks in Golf Mania, Listed in Tennis Ace. Hide Itoen : Planner in Slapshot, Tennis Ace Noborunrun: Director: Double Hawk, Tennis Ace ("NOBORIN" is thanked in Assault city)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14959 Location: London	Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 10:01 am
	You mention grep so I'll assume you're a *nix fiend with a penchant for Perl scripts and other forms of masochism. This may be too wild an assumption. Could you cook something up with RomSearcher or something equivalent (since that's interactive, it might be unscriptable) to do a similar task? Some kind of "RomGrep" perhaps. You can probably do it with a regular expression anyway, but I have no clue how.

ccovell Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 374 Location: Japan	Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:51 pm
ccovell Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 374 Location: Japan	Yeah, sorry, I made RomSearcher interactive. But the C(++) source is there so if you know your C, you could easily make it all command-line based. http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/romsearchera.html#download

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14959 Location: London	Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 4:03 pm
	Oh, by the way, I did read the secret hidden in the source, but I'm still here, both kidneys.

guest Guest	Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 2:53 am
guest Guest	Maxim wrote You mention grep so I'll assume you're a *nix fiend with a penchant for Perl scripts and other forms of masochism. This may be too wild an assumption. Could you cook something up with url=http://www.zyx.com/chrisc/romsearcher.html]RomSearcher[/url] Sorry it is to much of assumption! - I have zero scripting skills :( To find these I used a mix of unix grep and Wingrep http://www.wingrep.com/ To further add to the puzzle a "Nannorio" and "Ciikin Jun" show up in the credits of this arcade game "Kiki-Ippatsu Mayumi-chan" Uvlist lists the publisher as "Victory L.L.C." but the credits also say its a "Sanritsu" game. Sanritsu have known ties to Sega - there's Gamegear titles credited to them (Fantasy Zone Gear) as well as other Sega Arcade titles (They apparently originally developed "Bank Panic") & Appoooh - the Wrestling Game)

ArugulaZ Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 42	Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:08 pm
ArugulaZ Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 42	Guys, guys, Sega wasn't trying to hide anything from us. In the American television commercials for the Sega Master System, the name "Compile" was displayed at the bottom of footage from R-Type. You can't give the designers of a game much more credit than that! What's really a surprise is that Compile also designed the first Godzilla game for the NES. It sure looked and felt like their work, but it was only after a fellow NES fan searched for the word "Compile" in the code that the game's origins were revealed. This company's made a lot of fantastic games... it's a shame they're not still around. JR

idrougge Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:01 am
	They made Godzilla-kun for the MSX, too. It must be one of their earliest games. If you search the code for that game, you'll find a long story by one of the programmers about the day-to-day goings-on at Compile headquarters back in the day, as well as a bit or two about the contacts with Toho, who wanted to change the title (and the artist wept, for he had already drawn a title screen). It seems that they were based in Hiroshima back then, but moved to Saitama (just north of Tokyo) after that. Nowadays, the remnants of Compile are in a new company called Aiky, still based in Saitama. Moo Nitani is still their boss.

ArugulaZ Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 42	Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:10 am
ArugulaZ Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 42	Cool, Aiky retained most of their intellectual properties, too! That opens the door for Aleste and Guardian Legend sequels on the next generation of handheld systems! (It looks like Sega kept Puyo Puyo, but who cares? Both Sega and Compile had wrung that series dry over the past decade. There's only so many ways you can stack piles of blobs before it becomes redundant) JR

ICEknight Joined: 03 Apr 2001 Posts: 601 Location: Asturias	Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:20 pm
	Heh, looks like they also retained the rights to Gurulogi Champ, or at least to the used characters. I guess these changes in the company were the reason why SEGA had to change the characters for Puyo Pop Fever. Arle just makes a small cameo in the Vs mode (with a different design, of course) and Carbunkle is nowhere to be seen. I was pretty disappointed with that, myself. =\ EDIT: By the way, any clues on what's this and this about? There's many Compile games, some of them for the MSX (including Golvellious)...

idrougge Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 360 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:04 pm
	The first link is about Diskstation, a diskmag published by Compile in the late eighties/early nineties. DS was filled with small games (and larger ones published in instalments to keep you buying the next issue), rereleases of older softs, and example code. The second link is for some kind of pay-to-play official emulator.

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