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  • Joined: 15 Sep 2009
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:29 pm
spotUP wrote
are the new rips archived somewhere?
The only place with NeoGeo (and other new) rips is my VGM Pack Folder. (link see first post). All new rips are archived there (with exception of new SegaCD and 32x packs as Project2612 now supports them).

Btw: I uploaded a new file to the folder: PackList.txt. It lists all packs with game name, zip and 7z size, pack date, etc. It also has some nice statistics.

spotUP wrote
i suggest uploading them to ftp.modland.com!
Hmm ... that may be a good idea. I know Modland and like it for having all possible (and exotic) music formats.
I may upload the archive some day, but I'll likely forget it.

@mills: I fixed the volume of YM2608 and YM2610. You were right - it was too loud.
Is Neo Turf Masters already ripped?

@tripskylark: I you still have trouble with MAME VGM, please post the error.log file. I can possibly fix the bug/say what to do.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:46 pm
I have to trim the neo turf masters songs, just 8 of them have loops.
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Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:35 pm
ValleyBell, maybe you can help me? I'm having the greatest difficulties with AdLib games like Dune and KGB.

Using your DOSBox build and CLI tools, I can record several tunes as DRO then convert them to VGM apparently without any problem -- the resulting files will play correctly in Winamp or VGMPlay -- but then I seem unable to properly split/trim the VGM logs (that is, cutting out the leading silences, etc) without messing the tunes. Some instruments won't play or will sound completely wrong. It's like the parameters of the tunes are not properly initialized after being edited (manually with spts, or automatically with sptd). I haven't met this kind of issue with YM2612 recordings.

Here is my WIP if you want to have a look at it.
KGB [AdLib][WIP].zip (325.95 KB)

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Post Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:01 pm
Thanks for reporting this.
I quickly found the problem: the trimming tools don't copy the WaveSelect command (reg 01 data 0x20 btw) that enables waveforms other than sine.
I'll shortly update the tools.

Lemmings sent that thing as a part of every song, so I didn't notice.
I still wonder how I could forget such an important thing.

I'm glad that someone rips OPL2 songs.
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Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 8:30 am
Thanks for your swift feedback! I will try the updated tools this weekend.

I'm not exactly a big fan of AdPlug, which I find rarely up-to-date in terms of audio quality. And it's rather buggy under Winamp. VGM could be a neat alternative to all those native OPL ripping formats, which many are not even supported by AdPlug. (And it just happens that Stéphane Picq's soundtracks are amongst those unsupported formats.)
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Post Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:58 am
Last edited by ValleyBell on Sun May 15, 2011 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
The reason I implemented DRO and CMF in VGMPlay was, that AdPlug's support was poor and buggy. But I need to thank the developers for showing me how I can control the OPL chip of my SB16 in Windows 2000.


I'm starting to implement new chips for vgm v1.61.
I would add these chips:
K005289, K007232, K051649, K053260, K054539, K056800, RF5C400, UPD7759
Still I have a question: Which chips are used for actual music and which are not.
I don't want to add too many chips that aren't even used for music.
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Post Posted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:23 pm
ValleyBell wrote
The reason I implemented DRO and CMF in VGMPlay was, that AdPlug's support was poor and buggy. But I need to thank the developers for showing me how I can control the OPL chip of my SB16 in Windows 2000.


I'm starting to implement new chips for vgm v1.61.
I would add these chips:
K005289, K007232, K051649, K053260, K054539, K056800, RF5C400, UPD7759
Still I have a question: Which chips are used for actual music and which are not.
I don't want to add too many chips that aren't even music for music.


Guessing by these, there are Konami songs. Anyway:

K007232, K053260 and K054539 (for drums and voices) are definately used for actually music. K051649 doesn't seem to do anything, at least in Kitty Kadoodle. UPD7759 is a funny one, it is used in some games as music but not in others. I don't know about the others.

The K053260 is also entirely used for the Pizza Power song in TMNT: Turtles in Time.
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Post Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:05 pm
Thanks. I decide to implement all but the K056800 (the emulation core is empty) and the RF5C400 (I'll implement 16-bit devices later as that requires some work).
I'll also add the MultiPCM chip

GameBoy sound is already done, NES sound too but lacks DPCM (that evil thing uses the main CPU's RAM for that). NES is without any extentions.
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Post Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:57 pm
ValleyBell wrote
Thanks. I decide to implement all but the K056800 (the emulation core is empty) and the RF5C400 (I'll implement 16-bit devices later as that requires some work).
I'll also add the MultiPCM chip

GameBoy sound is already done, NES sound too but lacks DPCM (that evil thing uses the main CPU's RAM for that). NES is without any extentions.


So it isn't until next version that we see NES and GB, or is it implented?

If mediafire is still your choice, once it is done please do NOT upload to mediafire, Spam infects it everywhere, and it stops downloading with big files once I download, so use (Free)Webs or a better provider, or ask someone to upload for you.
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:07 pm
I love all the progress being made. Thanks, ValleyBell.
hamtaro126 wrote
If mediafire is still your choice, once it is done please do NOT upload to mediafire, Spam infects it everywhere, and it stops downloading with big files once I download, so use (Free)Webs or a better provider, or ask someone to upload for you.

MediaFire works just fine for me.
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:19 pm
Wishful thinking: Yamaha FH-1 (Sega Saturn).
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Post Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:27 pm
hamtaro126 wrote
So it isn't until next version that we see NES and GB, or is it implented?

If mediafire is still your choice, once it is done please do NOT upload to mediafire, Spam infects it everywhere, and it stops downloading with big files once I download, so use (Free)Webs or a better provider, or ask someone to upload for you.

You'll have to wait until I release the next version of MAME/MESS/VGMPlay to use the new features.

And although some people reported problems with Mediafire, it works very fine for me. (And it's easy to organize all the files.)
Maybe you can ask someone to mirror some files at another place.

mic_ wrote
Wishful thinking: Yamaha FH-1 (Sega Saturn).

The SCSP (or YMF292-F) was on my list when I did all the Yamaha sound chips, but it's another 16-bit device, so it had and still has to wait.
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Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 1:33 pm
Oh my Goodness! There are much chips to put in VGM 1.61. I have another suggestions to put some another soundchips (1.61 or in future releases):

- SN76477 (used in most games by Midway and Taito and early N******* games);
- Hudson's HuC6280 PSG (used in PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16);
- Volume Filter (used in Taito games like Darius and Konami's Xexex (4x!) );
- OKI6295 (used in CPS-1 games, and in Midway T-Unit games, like Mortal Kombat);
- POKEY (used in A***i XX00 consoles and in A***i Arcades);
- FDS FM Sound Chip (90% of the FDS games use the chip);
- VRC6 (used in Akumajou Densetsu and Mouryou Senki Madara);
- Sega Universal Sound Board (used in some Sega G80 games);
- Discrete (used by most A***i, Midway, Namco, Taito and Universal games);
- GBA DAC (4 of the 6 channels is from the original DMG);

I don't say the support to the VRC7 (used in Konami's Lagrange Point only), because is the original, old and good YM2413 embedded on a single cartridge!

The GBA DirectSound is a 8-bit DAC (Dual) sound chip. I love the Power Pro Kun Pocket and Sonic Advance series on the handheld.
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Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:19 pm
Quote
I don't say the support to the VRC7 (used in Konami's Lagrange Point only), because is the original, old and good YM2413 embedded on a single cartridge!


Well, they're not really the same. It's a scaled down version of the 2413, and more importantly the instruments aren't the same.
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Post Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:03 pm
Most PC Engine games have already been ripped to HES format, which is well supported by NEZplug++ and foo_gep. The few remaining titles don't exactly need VGM logging support, they just haven't been ripped yet. I don't say it wouldn't be useful, but there are probably more important FM chips to work on.
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Post Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:45 am
Any news on the Neo Turf Masters rip? :(
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Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:13 am
tripskylark wrote
Any news on the Neo Turf Masters rip? :(


Some instruments are missing in the "course music" vgm... I'll try to rip it with mame...
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Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:17 pm
mills wrote
Some instruments are missing in the "course music" vgm... I'll try to rip it with mame...
Try the command line
m1.exe -g turfmast 39
This way all data should be present.

That's because M1 begins a new vgm everytime the song changes, but global settings the chip needs aren't rewritten. (a thing the trimming tools do)

I recommend to restart M1 for every song. (even if it takes a bit - that works a lot better and I always do that myself to prevent such bugs and have cleaner files.)
You can get the song number from the list file, but be sure to remove any trailing zeroes.

Btw: I recommend to download new M1 list files and m1.xml from here.
The current one has some more sets (not many more) and some bugfixes. It looks like they still update the files.


I had a look at the sound cores Sonic Of 8! suggested.
SN76477: no - analog device (i.e. input via x.x volts, not digital values), looks very complicated and difficult to handle
HuC6280: yes
Volume Filter: no - it's just a mixer device (some other sound core must generate the sound)
OKI6295: I think yes - (just takes some work) when I add the other OKI cores, I'll do this as well
POKEY: yes
Sega Universal Sound Board: maybe
Discrete: no - analog device like the SN76477, just 10 times more complex
NES sound extentions: no - MESS seems to lack support for any of them (I can find notes like "VRC-6 Sound write", but nothing about it's emulation)
GBA DAC: no - VGM logging for this would be like having a wave file of it
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Neo turf masters
Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:49 pm
No way... ADPCM samples are OK, but there is a cool synth square wave which is missing from the main course tune, (the one tripskylark wanted). :(

I used fox m1 and mame... none of them worked.
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Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:12 pm
I found the problem. It uses the AY8910-part of the YM2610.
The square wave is there, but it's volume is very low and it's horribly out of tune. (You can hear it if you mute all FM channels and set EnableAY = True in VGMPlay.)

You can finish your rip. I'm very sorry for all the trouble.
I'll fix this in the next version of VGMPlay.
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Post Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 11:13 pm
OK to unsupported chips. Anyway, I've don't mentioned the Dreamcast AICA (!!!!), because of the number of channels (64), the type of processor (32-bit) and is must work to VB (and much people don't have DC/NAOMI games, unless if the person are a collector...).
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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 5:12 pm
I looked at the MAME core and the Dreamcast AICA is only 16-bit, so it would be in a line with the SCSP. (i.e. possible, but not yet)
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Post Posted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:49 pm
ValleyBell wrote
NES sound extentions: no - MESS seems to lack support for any of them.


You cannot import a sound core from another free source-code emulator (like FCEUX and Nestopia)?
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Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 7:54 pm
I'm sure it's a lot easier to implement vgm logging into one of these emulators than porting a sound-core to MESS.
Maybe sometime I'll look into one of these NES emulators.
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Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:11 pm
I have created a easy method to MESS VGM logging, but only to future chips called HuC6280 and the DMG Custom, that was present in new 1.61 VGM File Format:

-HuC6280: There is a way to play HES files on MESS. Just rename the .hes extension to .pce. Most people knows this method, but MESS has no direct support to HES files. And, you can use Buttons II e I to swap musics. Is the most easy way to create 1.61 VGM files on MESS (since I don't have, because of the size of file and my Internet Connection is Dial-Up).
-DMG Custom: Anyone that was know the GBS format, was know the form that he work (and obviously, his function...). So, MESS, again, no access any of emulated sound formats. But, there is a GBS to a DMG ROM converter called GBS2GB. I forgot the site on was I downloaded. The GBS2GB are simple and easy use: You put (or search) the folder that has a GBS files, and click in Create .GB file. And, you can run them new created GB files on MESS, and you can follow the same VGM Ripping process at the Valley Bell's VGM Ripping tutorial.

I've found a KSS Player for MSX called KSSPLAY, but requires 48KB memory free to run 16KB KSS files in primary mapper, a MSX-DOS2 disk, and a KSS file (runs AY-3-8910, MSX-AUDIO and MSX-MUSIC), but I don't know a form to put KSS file, if is in a disk, a tape or in a flashcart.

I think to anyone that the Game Boy BIOS was the first pack in a DMG Custom (since I was plans to create the Bubble System BIOS music in K005289).
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:28 pm
Regards from a musician, 8bit & Arcade fan....

My ripped VGM music from last version of VGM-MAME is better that last version of VGM-M1. For example: Out Run VGM has drums maked in MAME, and doesn't with M1...

Please ValleyBell would you update M1-VGM version to support your "new improved Chip work"... With M1 we could listen all songs of a game and choose one.

Your tools makes me happy. And helps all 8bit & retrocomputer scene... Finally I could convert quicky and easily MID files from MSX & Arcade music ( through VGM). Thanks a lot from Spain!
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:18 am
Thanks. It's nice to make people happy. :)

I know that the VGM mod of M1 is a little less developed than the MAME mod. (That's also because the last offical M1 update was some time in 2010.)
As you mentioned it, I tried to log some OutRun music and the SegaPCM chip was emulated too slow. (M1 has some hack that makes it work there.)
I fixed OutRun, but I need to check other SegaPCM games.

Is there anything other you want updated?
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:30 am
"I had a dream...": VGM could agglutinate all the sound chips (or most of them :)

Well, I think that VGM file (with ValleyBell's updates) will become the new "standard" file in music chips emulation and chiptune scene in the future. With the support of most of the sound chips...
This will open VGM not only for Sega fan people besides all retrocomputer world. :)

I'm started on CPC scene, but last years I open my mind to other 8bit and 16bit systems... And I discover your important systems, web and works...

VGM & Chiptune World? Support for all?
-Multiple SEGA systems have a lot of audio chips...
-CPC, Spectrum 128, At*** ST only have the AY/YM
-C64 only have the SID
-Known is the magnitude of diferent sound chips for the MSX system, this new VGM file help them a lot because KSS don't support OPL4-Moonsound.
-Finally all of us like MAME development... A lot of different SoundChips ... perhaps main team MAME coders don't think the importance of VGM ripping-logging music (not only *.WAV way...) but VGM is the correct line in sound chip emulation work for chiptune jukebox players... and for MAME too

Thanks all for your work!!!!
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:31 pm
VB, you cannot make a VGM logger in VisualBoyAdvance/VBA-M for GB/GBC games (VBA-M is more accurate to DMG Custom chip)?

And I have the suggestion to put the Namco WSG series (Namco, Namco 15XX & Namco CUS30), since I have want to create Pro Yakyuu World Stadium and Pac-Mania VGM Packs (althrough Pac-Mania not use CUS30, but use DAC in Block Town music).
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:34 pm
VGM logging in a GBA emulator - maybe in some distant future when I have lots of time.
MESS' emulation is not perfect, but I think it's good enough for accurate VGM logs of most systems.

Namco chips - noted
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:13 pm
I was searching for a NeoGeo Pocket game with nice music and a sound test (important!) and look what I've found.

Sadly the game has no sound test, so I won't rip any more tracks.
NTM_Options.vgm (12.66 KB)

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:51 am
Quote
(VBA-M is more accurate to DMG Custom chip)?


That should have no effect at all on what is written to the VGM file, since the VGM file contains the data input to the audio chips, not the output.

What matters is that the playback code (in_vgm) emulates the GB P-APU correctly (e.g. the envelope generator bug).
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VGM File and the Real NeoGeo Hardware & NeoGeo Dev
Post Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:05 pm
hello guys !

first ,I would like to thanks all of us !

>ValleyBell : thanks a lot for all you have done !
Can we expect to use these VGM files on the real NEO-GEO System ?

what should we do to make this work? to CUT/SPLIT the VGM file/Datas : a part in the ROM M1 (PCM pointers, FM Datas, SSG Datas) and a part in V* ROM (PCM Datas : ADPCM-A & ADPCM-B) ... a tutorial would be appreciated !

the problem is that we don 't have no driver / VGM Play in Z80 asm or C ...
where can we find one on the NET?

>mic_ : As the music are available as VGM NeoGeo now, can we expect to see in the near future, a driver for the Neogeo system, created with your tool 'xpmck' ? what do you need for doing that (Tech Notes maybe) ?

Thanks a lot from France!

PS: we looking for an ADPCM (A & B) Encoder to creat *.pcm file, compatible with the NEO-GEO System ... in command line if possible !


Regards,
Fred/FRONT
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:02 am
Quote
Can we expect to use these VGM files on the real NEO-GEO System ?
the problem is that we don 't have no driver / VGM Play in Z80 asm or C ...
where can we find one on the NET?


I don't think you can find one because I don't think anyone has written one.


Quote
As the music are available as VGM NeoGeo now, can we expect to see in the near future, a driver for the Neogeo system, created with your tool 'xpmck' ? what do you need for doing that (Tech Notes maybe) ?


I don't know if I'm going to write a playback library for the NeoGeo. Maybe for the NeoGeo Pocket, which of course is completely different.
I think Charles Doty has ported my Megadrive playback library to some arcade system.. I don't remember if it was the NeoGeo or CPS-1 or something else. But he did it for some game he was working on, so I don't think he has released the code.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:05 am
FRONT wrote
Can we expect to use these VGM files on the real NEO-GEO System ?

what should we do to make this work? to CUT/SPLIT the VGM file/Datas : a part in the ROM M1 (PCM pointers, FM Datas, SSG Datas) and a part in V* ROM (PCM Datas : ADPCM-A & ADPCM-B) ... a tutorial would be appreciated !

I'm sure the files easily usable on real NeoGeo Systems. You just have to write your own VGM player.
For this, you should look at the VGM specification. It has all the important things: Register writes (SSG writes are FM writes to reg 0x00 to 0x0F btw), ROM data, etc.

I don't have an ADPCM encoder, but you may look at MAME's FM sound core. It may be possible to write an encoder by looking on how the decoder works.
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:57 pm
Mic_ , ValleyBell thanks for your answerds

>ValleyBell:
I don't have an ADPCM encoder, but you may look at MAME's FM sound core. It may be possible to write an encoder by looking on how the decoder works.

'Attachment file' :
here we can find C source for YM2610 ADPCM-B Codec, but i don' know if it's enought to make a ADPCM-B encoder in command line.

int YM2610_ADPCM-B_Encode( short *src , unsigned char *dest , int len ).
int YM2610_ADPCM-B_Decode( unsigned char *src , short *dest , int len )

ValleyBell, or someone else, could compiling this source to make DOS command-line ? (I' m not programmer, and I can't do by myself)

...

Fred/FRONT
adpcmb_src.zip (1.01 KB)
C source - ADPCM-B encoder / Decoder

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:12 pm
Sorry, that it took so long to compile the ADPCM Encoder. I tried it and decoded a file to raw data and forgot about it.
I attached the finished CLI tool (wav <-> bin), source code is included.


I just made a big update to M1 vgm, which I recommend to download.
- I'm now restarting the entire emulation everytime a track is changed and vgm logging is active. That maybe increases the time M1 needs to change a track, but it fixes the problem, that all vgms (with exception of the first one after starting M1) don't sound correct because of some missing commands.
- I fixed a crash that occured when switching games and vgm logging was on. (I think no one would do this, but restarting the emulation caused it to crash, too.)
- I fixed some PSG header values, it wrote completely broken Feedback and Shift Reg. Width values. (it now writes the usual Sega PSG values)
- I fixed the YMZ280B chip emulation a little. It's still not as good as the one in VGMPlay :P, but the (tons of) scratches should be gone.

I also uploaded the r7+ version of GensGS that has a slightly improved 32x emulation and other various changes. Note that this is not based on a final build, so there may be some bugs. (I haven't encountered any so far.)
The version is post-r7 from GerbilSoft's git repository and includes the last changes GerbilSoft did before he stopped developing this version of GensGS.

Happy logging!
ADPCM_Encode.zip (18.19 KB)

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:02 pm
Last edited by FRONT on Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
Hi ValleyBell !

I 'not expect an answer so quickly!
Thank you!

As soon as I have been able to download this utility, I've tested It with some games that only use ADPCM-B Type for their BackGround Music (BGM) : Blazing Star (Filename: blazstar.zip -20.6 mb - ROM N°239) or Strikers 1945 Plus (Filename: s1945p.zip -73.78 mb /Psikyo 1999 - Neo-Geo ROM N°254) ...

I 've just tested the decoder for now :
Wave quality seems good (the sound is not distorted),

But there is a problem with the playback speed of the Wave !!
Wave file is played 2 times too fast at least with my 'VLC'...
So, Could you fix that please !!

I tried it and decoded a ADPCM-B file to PCM data
this is my tests with 'blazstar.zip': ADPCM_Encode.exe -d 239-V1.bin Output.wav >> Here, output.wav = 03:00 minutes <<<

I've make an other test with an ADPCM-A decoder (adpcm.zip or vx2wav.zip -> see 'Attachment file' for links for download this files)

-> next page
Attachment Files.zip (26.32 KB)

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:18 pm
Last edited by FRONT on Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
usage : vx2wav.exe 239-V1.bin Output.wav >>here, output.wav = 07:33 minutes.<<

Even if ADPCM-B sound distorted this time, We can still recognize all the music with a correct playback speed.

And for the BIN file (ADPCM-B datas with option -d or -e), I think that 'Samplerate' information it's very important because there is a direct link (Formula) with Delta-T Registers [for YM2610 : DELTA-T L/H : REG#19 & REG#1A (2 Bytes=16 Bits)].

FORMULA :
in DATASHEET YM2610:
Frequency ADPCM-B = [(Delta-T (H)+Delta-T (L)) / 256] x 55.5 KHz

in DATASHEET YM2608:
DELTA-N = (fsample/55.5kHz) * 2^16


Z80 ASM code (M1 ROM) : in this example DELTA-T =$6547 (H/L) at fsample=22,050 KHz

ld a,#19 ; REG#19 ADPCM-B Delta-T (L)
ld b,#47 ; Frequency =22,050 KHz
call SendPortA
ld a,#1a ; REG#1A ADPCM-B Delta-T (H)
ld b,#65 ; Frequency = 22,050 KHz
call SendPortA

>>> Could you please ADD also your 'makeFile' in ZIP File !!! thank you.

Bye, Fred/FRONT
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:48 pm
An other Question For you ! : ( because Samplerate is ignored )

So WalleyBell , could you please Add other options in this Adpcm_Encoder.exe' ?? -> The Frequency Sample (fsample or Frequency ADPCM-B) that you call 'Samplerate'

for 'InputRate' or 'OutputRate' (depends on the options -d and -e) for the BIN file

(for the PCM file it's not so important for me for the moment : Default option -d/decoder: PCM - 44KHz - 16 Bits - mono)

that's it for this time, I promise ;)
Fred
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:52 am
Bumped due to a reminder that VGMTOOLS has GB/NES Support now...

And this format needs to be up-to-date if that is the case!
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:55 pm
I just updated MAME and MESS to support VGM v1.61.
They now log these chips:
- GB DMG (MESS only)
- NES APU
- MultiPCM
- UPD7759
- OKIM6258
- OKIM6295
- OKIM6376 (might change its commands)

The next MAME/MESS vgm mods will be based on MAME 0.144.

Enjoy!
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:50 am
ValleyBell wrote
I just made a big update to M1 vgm

Yujuuuuuuu!!!!! GREAT!!!!!!!!
Thank you veeeeery much!!!! , man. You are essential to the history of chiptune.
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:21 am
hi everybody
i'm new on this forum, but i've contributed on project2612, creating some packs
i'm interested in making some vgm packs of arcade games musics, i've made some tests here, and noticed:
- musics using ym2203 all have the same problem (playing everything one octave too low, using vgmplay or winamp plugin)
- same problem about games using psg chips (such as monsterland)
- once trimmed using vgm_trim.exe i may have differences on some sounds (taking care not cutting first samples, of course), especially on loud musics (that's a part of another problem)
- during my tests, i've completely dumped rolling thunder musics (with mame), some of them saturate quite a lot, should i modify the whole level of the musics while running the game ? or each chipset level using cheat/sliders ?
- i've noticed that i could get a more important compression while using maxim's vgm tool (making vgz file) than using vgm_cmp.exe
(eg. match it main music 24,6kb / 46,6kb, rolling thunder stage 1 music 11kb / 67,6kb, with absolutely no differences to my ears (i'm musician / sound engineer)
i've made some tests using some packs you've released, using samples (outrun, thunderblade), and i can compress a bit more there, too
so now, before starting to complete some packs, i'd like to be sure i'm using the right way to extract/trim/optimise musics
why not creating a dedicated page (maybe, not on smspower, as it's starting to have nothing to do with sms or sega, why not something like project 2612 did ?)
thanks for your help, and keep vgming !!!!
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:42 am
Duchemole wrote
why not creating a dedicated page (maybe, not on smspower, as it's starting to have nothing to do with sms or sega, why not something like project 2612 did ?)
As I said in the past, I'm up to register a domain such as vgmrips.org or something like that if there's enough request. I just don't want to go all the way to set it up if it's not needed.
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:52 am
We'd like to get this stuff put in its own place as it's not really on-topic here. If anyone wants to do that, it'd be great and I think it would be very helpful for people who are interested in that area.

We're happy to host VGM software here for the time being, but provided the new home is stable, it can become the authoritative source too.
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:10 pm
I'd support a seperate vgm site, too. (vgmrips.org sounds good, btw)

@Duchemole:
The problem with the wrong octave is, that there are 2 chips with different clocks. (in case of System 1: 4MHz and 2MHz, half clock -> half frequency -> tones are one octave)
Note that only a part of the tones is played at a wrong octave.

About the saturated music: Don't care about the sliders, it won't affect the vgm anyway.
You can use vgm_vol and vgm_ptch to set the volume modifier value.
Also please post a vgm. If the saturation is too high, I'll change my players to make it less loud. (I already did that with YM2608/YM2610 chips.)

The compression of VGMTool and vgm_cmp is different in that way, that vgm_cmp reduces the actual data and VGMTool does a zip-like compression.
For best results you can first use vgm_cmp and then VGMTool.
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:16 pm
thanks for all these explanations
i'll make further tests and will send some vgm as soon as i'm ready
here is a short example of saturation on ym2151
i've not tried yet vgm_vol
also, i think this example has another interest, the sort of noise at the end of the file is not supposed to be like that, on the vgm version from the direct rip, it's correct, and it turned like that once i've trimmed using vgm_trim, to me, it sounds like 2 identical sounds are played at the same time, creating some phase problems
thanks for your support, and be sure to have some upcoming vgm files !!!!

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:08 pm
It's really loud.

I made a vgm2wav with VGMPlay and a volume setting of 0.5 and that's the output of vgm_vol:
rthunder_02_trimmed.wav MaxLevel: 7911  Factor: 0.529   VolMod: 0xE2
The line for vgm_ptch would be:
vgm_ptch -SetVolMod:0xE0 rthunder_02_trimmed.vgz
(I rounded the volume a little to 0xE0 = 0.5)

I think the ending should be correct, but the commands that adjust the LFO vibrato are missing. (The LFO is changed at 00:01.23, which prevents vgm_trim from writing it, as it looks 2 seconds ahead. I'll fix this.)
Can you upload the untrimmed (and not vgm_cmp compressed) file, please?
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:27 pm
here it is
it was not saturated while recording (i'm sorry there is a long blank beginning, as i needed to enter the service mode, and find the right music in the sound test)
rthunder_0.vgm (69.12 KB)

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