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View topic - Phantasy Star Retranslation WIP
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 Phantasy Star Retranslation WIP
 Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:42 pm Last edited by Maxim on Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
I heard about this for the first time today when it landed in my inbox. Here's a screenshot I made:
It seems to be quite far along but it needs some work to finish it off beyond what has been done; the person who has done it is having to give up on the project. Anyone interested? 
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Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:07 pm
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What is left to be done? Not that I should be posting in this thread as I am not to be trusted. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:49 am
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Well, nor am I. I don't know how many years I've been kinda-sorta-notreally working on the translation with no results. I'm not sure if this translation is based on my work or not. To be honest, I'm more interested in the disassembly than the translation. If the skeleton documents I got are to be believed, a huge amount of work has been done - recompressing graphics, compressing text, loads more stuff I barely understand like using BBRAM to allow stuff to work. I don't have the file here right now but it was easy to run into script bugs and apparently the savegame naming screen is totally not done. Personally, I'd also like to tweak the script a bit (stylistically, I'm a bit of a pedant) and also change the text to render on consecutive lines to avoid so much scrolling, since I have a very good idea of how doable that is. As ever, it's just a matter of time. If only someone would pay me to work full-time on this stuff... |
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:04 am
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I've spent some time looking at what I've been given - it's pretty amazing. All graphics are being recompressed using code from Phantasy Star Gaiden to free up some of the needed ROM space. Most of the Paul Jensen's retranslation has been inserted; but that leaves a substantial amount remaining to be translated for various interactions, eg:
They should be fairly simple (no deep sentence structures to convey) but being kana, they're beyond most online translation services. Someone able to deal with those would be very welcome. There's some things I'd like to achieve too; the text is spaced out too much, and I see no reason not to use the same space for double the amount of text, except that it would require some reformatting to make it prettier. If there's space, I really want to add a sound test. When the translation gets more complete, a lot of testing will be needed. As it is now, there seem to be some bugs - at least one dialogue code locks up the game, for example. I need real time with Meka to debug those. I'm happy to pass on coding duties to someone else with plenty of time, but I should be able to work on this (as a main priority, leaving those piles of VGMs and scans to build even higher) in about a month. |
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:38 am
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| I really hope you do work on this Maxim. I have been hoping this translation would happen for years now. It certainly looks promising. | |
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bug
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misc
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:09 pm
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you can also re-encode the monster bitmaps and merge the free bytes.
the bitmap of 'space' before the opening cinema yields some bytes. never documented how much space got opened up by some of the background data. and the dungeons use a different decoder. dark force as well. can you briefly describe the script hang? it might only take a few minutes to document a solution. thank you and best of luck. |
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:42 pm
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I thought all the compressed graphics were being recompressed, and anything uncompressed has to be that way for speed. I thought this was Dark Falz/Force? It's the normal decompressor.
The script hang is on the $4f byte which is supposed to insert characters' names. I have covered the corresponding code in my disassembly so it should be easy to debug; it's the code starting at $33ac, using $c2c2 as a 2-bit index into a table of 4-character names at $3326. I just can't use Meka here at work, and I really have to not look at the translation this afternoon and do some work. An easy-to-get-at demonstration of this bug is when you try to use magic from a new game; you get a locked game instead of something along the lines of "Alisa doesn't know any magic". That's just the most obvious bug I found so far. |
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Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:19 pm Last edited by Maxim on Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Hmm. The compiling instructions say
but it is this NAMES reference that is wrong causing this error; using the logged values without any decrement makes it work. At least it was just my fault :) Next bug: when you don't have enough money, you get this: 
but I can't find that text in the script files... 
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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:31 pm
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Quick solution.
The shop script error: [002D9D] 2d9d 21 5C B6 LD HL,B65Ch [002DA0] 2da0 18 EA JR 2D8Ch [002D8C] 2d8c CD 3A 33 CALL 333Ah It could be that the string is not translated. Or the pointer has not been rewired. -------------------------------------------------------------- To check the latter, go to 'fast_sort\table1.txt'. Look for '2D9D' in column 1. No match. This means that the pointer has _not_ been rewired. Look for 'b65c'. We find: 2BC0 B65C 2E3D B676 To fix, 2BC0 B65C 2d9d b65c ; <--- add this line Now execute 'fast_sort\table1.bat'. Open 'fast_sort\log.txt'. Copy all the text. Open the 'script_inserter' project file with MSVC. Open 'huffman.cpp' and find unsigned short pointers[] = { ... }; Replace all the 16-bit pointers with the log file. Compile in 'Release' mode. Hit 'script_inserter\run.bat'. Hit 'rom_insert\run.bat'. Note that there may be more pointers that still need rewiring. -------------------------------------------------------- However, if the pointer is in the file, then we need to locate the string. ex. ; Untranslated in-game 'save' string [001E3B] 1e3b 21 BB B3 LD HL,B3BBh [001E3E] 1e3e CD 3A 33 CALL 333Ah We find a 'match': 1E3B B39F Hit 'script_dumper\run.bat' and open the 'script_dumper\log.txt' file. $59ba = text bank 0. $333a = text bank 1. The script dumper log file says: [B39F] = 0EC (text bank 1) Open script2. [0EC] ?-?? ??????.<line> ????? ????????.<end> |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:04 am Last edited by Maxim on Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Multi-line cutscene output sussed, as a way of getting to know the retranslation code. I think 6 lines will be the best compromise, though. I still really need someone with basic Japanese to translate the remaining text, which is almost all fairly simple interactions. 
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:34 am
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you can ask Bock! I heard he is very close to his japonese (female)classmates. |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:22 am
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Bock's just ripped Meka in to tiny pieces, strewn them across the desk and started to put it back together with some improvements. Now is not the time to be distracting him.
Anyway, while he could maybe translate it himself, it is an important lesson that anyone who isn't interested in videogames finds such translations extremely boring and pointless and as such, no matter how much he is "seducing" his classmates, it's not going to be a great success. What I need is a gamer who can read a little kana... |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:50 am
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I deny all of the above.
I could translate a little myself (given some painful effort) but I would certainly miss subtle things. Microsoft IME is a good help, type the kana for a word you don't know, press space and you get the kanji, which you can read/translate with http://www.popjisyo.com コウゲキ = こうげき= 攻撃 (attack) [000] <monster>ハ <player>ノ<line>コウゲキヲ カワシタ.<delay> <monster> has dodged <player>'s attack. [002] <player>ハ <monster>ノ<line>コウゲキヲ カワシタ.<delay> <player> has dodged <monster>'s attrack. You can probably improve the english there. If you have more, I'd suggest posting everything. Those kind of simple sentences I can translate. Probably not all. |
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:07 pm
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Well... here's what there is:
Some of that has a translation but perhaps needs to be checked. It's mostly battles, saving/loading, a bit of church interaction, and a few more I haven't identified. There's also a few bits not shown here from the main script that aren't in Paul Jensen's translation, perhaps because they're not in the game or because he didn't manage to discover the events to trigger them; they also need their translation to be checked. Anyway, overall it is much better if someone can tackle this lot by editing the original files, as it'll save me having to merge it in. I can send them by email easily enough. I've also posted a translator ad at The Whirlpool, so maybe something will come of that. |
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3-line text in dialogues
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:33 pm Last edited by Maxim on Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
50% less button-pressing :) The box is actually a row shorter than in the original, presumably due to having to shuffle RAM for other, expanded "windows". I don't think it'll be particularly easy to re-expand it.
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:27 pm
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from my own foggy memory, i think there's enough ram space to re-add the 4-line window. but be careful about the menu space limit (rom-wise).
you can also do "<internal hint 01> <monster>'<use suffix> attack." to append an optional 's'. not tested though. |
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:36 pm
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| For future reference, WWWJDIC supports katakana lookups fairly well. It gives you "attack" for コウゲキ and "to dodge" for カワシタ, for example, converting to hiragana and kanji along the way. I tried the MS IME mentioned above and didn't have much luck with it. | |
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:01 am
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No offense to the brilliant parties involved here, but is that what the script is going to look like? I'd love to take a crack at rewriting this, if you'll let me. |
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Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:35 am
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The translation source is Paul Jensen's retranslation, which you are welcome to take issue with since it's nothing to do with me :) He freely admits to not being a great Japanese speaker; I think the main aim is to have a script that follows the Japanese one (no creative additions) without the awkwardness of word-for-word translation.
I'm personally open to stylistic changes. However, it's perhaps better suited to later discussion since there's still a chunk left untranslated. I'll try to make sure that's discussed openly, probably in this thread. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:58 am
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Wow, the translation is back already! There's a few parts that will need some reworking to be less awkward, though, and some match up with Paul's retranslation so we get two opinions on those. Examples:
I'm going to have a good look through it all and come up with a list of things we have to deal with. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:56 am
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| Okay, well, let me know if I can help. I'm actually a writer by trade, and Phantasy Star is one of my favorite games in the world. I've been wanting to play through it with proper sound for a long time now, and I'd really hate to think that all this hard work is going toward a script with lines like "However, we aren’t able to get near to it" and "LaShiec has brought an enormous calamity upon our world" when I'd be more than willing to volunteer my time cleaning it up. | |
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:28 am
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OK, check your email (assuming fcifaldi is a real name).
In other news: our first playtester, Youltar, has found two bugs already - one dangling script pointer, one unknown game death. I'll get on that tomorrow, today is Live 8 day and I have a couple of tickets for the big tellies in the park. |
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I figured I should jump in here...
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:04 am
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Holy crap! To come back from vacation and find this thread... awesome! I was worried that people had lost interest in (finally) doing a retranslation.
Anyway, I'm on summer break right now*, and I'll have a lot of free time for the next ten weeks or so. I'm willing to put in time to get the retranslation done. As for current progress... as far as I know, everything has been translated. All that's available on my website right now is the dialogue and the items list, but I've got local copies of translations of all the "little" dialogue, like, "(Monster X) dodged (Character X's) attack", and so on. As for the script itself... I've been (slowly) going through a script dump that Maxim sent me a while back. I'm about halfway through it right now. Most of the work I've done so far has been copy-and-paste from my other retranslation documents, but I've also taken the opportunity to smooth out some of the translation, which has slowed things down a bit. The ROM locations of the various pieces of dialogue are included in the script, which I assume will make the dialogue easier to re-insert/debug. As for style... creative writing isn't really one of my strengths (too many Linguistics papers, maybe?), so a stylistic overhaul of the script is probably in order. Any requests? If anybody needs anything from me that's related to the project, just ask, and I'll do my best to get it to you. Paul *As a side note, I just finished a B.A. in Linguistics, and I'll be starting work on my M.A. in September. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:17 am
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Paul: let me send you what we've got so far, to avoid any unnecessary duplication of work.
Basically, almost everything is translated and inserted - except the ending (presuming it's in Japanese) and the save-naming screen, which I'm currently hacking. What remains is play-testing, script editing (TheRedEye has offered his services), script bugs (a full inventory gives one) and fixing any other bugs (so far, dungeon "falls" crashing the game is the only one I know of). Hacker support might be useful now. I don't have as much time as I'd like to work on this. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:31 pm
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i remember it as only plain english
i'll quickly look into it |
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:51 pm
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In rom_insert/list.txt, look for:
; Dungeon font decoding 10e3 hex_cda945.bin ; - CALL $45a9 10e6 hex_1812.bin ; - JR $7e0 Add this below it: ; Dungeon pit font decoding 6971 hex_cda945.bin ; - CALL $45a9 6974 hex_1809.bin ; - JR $697f |
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:34 pm
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| Just to keep everyone aware of my "progress" in rewriting the script, I'm not going to get started until Maxim creates a patch for me to play through the game without power-leveling. I love this game dearly, but the thought of playing through it again just to slowly get context for my script doesn't sound appealing. Besides, I've been spoiled by the GBA port, Phantasy Star has become a "power leveling while taking a shit" game for me! | |
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:27 pm
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Mr. Mysterious hacker: I already fixed that bug :( but your hack might be better. Actually, mine was
697d hex_b745.bin ; call $45b7 (new decoder)
which is smaller, and I think yours might be loading both font sets instead of just the one - which seems pointless since as fara s I can see, it gets immediately drawn over again by the game :) TheRedEye: done (kind of): I hacked in higher starting levels and loads of money, I'll email it to you. |
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Consensus on planet names, etc.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:08 pm
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Just a quick opinion here -- I'll hold off on any more until I get to take a look at the current version of the retranslated game:
I think it'll be good to come to some kind of consensus about the names of the planets, items, etc. in the game. As a lot of you know, many of the names in PS have ambiguous English translations. For example, モタビア (motabia) could be translated as either 'Motabia' or 'Motavia' (Japanese has no /v/, so /b/ is used for both /v/ and /b/). So rather than just arbitrarily pick one or the other in cases like this, maybe we should take a vote (read: a poll) or something. What do you guys think? -- Paul P.S. -- The text at the end of the game (except for the credits) is all in Japanese. |
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Re: Consensus on planet names, etc.
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:04 pm
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I for one would HEAVILY agree on this. Motavia/Motabia is great point I feel simply for continuity reasons. It's not Motabia in any of the other English Pstar games. Why start now? Also here are a few words I've come across that I believe should not be changed. I'm very sure once I get into testing abit more I will come across many items that seem weird as well, A voting system I think is a great idea.
Dimate Hovercraft One last thing. Odin/Tairon those two names don't even seem close to me. Maybe because I grew up with Odin, but I think its a much better name than Tairon. Anyone know how Tairon ended up being translated into Odin? |
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Re: Consensus on planet names, etc.
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:29 am
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It was shortened because they only had a four character limit. Personally, I'm all for re-translating this game to fit into continuity with the American versions of parts 2 and 4, but people seem to have this strange belief that anything that comes out of Japan is ABSOLUTELY CANON AND CAN NOT BE FUCKED WITH, so I don't expect many to agree with me. I completely agree with you, though. Tairon is a retarded name in English context, but judging by the people who think Ted Woolsey is a monster for rewriting Final Fantasy VI into a much better script, no one wants quality. They just want whatever Japan had, because it's Japanese and therefore better. Sorry, I'm kinda bitter about the whole thing. Hell, I even think Alisa sounds stupid. And did anyone REALLY think that it was necessary to change Dr. Ivo Robotnick, the bad guy I grew up fighting, into "Dr. Eggman?" Come on, now. Anyway, as far as this translation goes, I don't think it would be a hard change to make one patch with the Americanized names, and one with the Japanese, what do you guys think? My opinion is that we go by the English version of Phantasy Star IV, with Motavia, Alis, Desoris, etc., but that's just me. |
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:34 am
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While I understand a lot of this, I think some sense needs to be applied before we end up producing 50 different versions to make everyone happy.
I think we need the exactly-like-the-Japanese version otherwise we'll be in danger of being lynched by the people who demand that. Also, the origin of this whole thing is the "Phantasy Star Original Dialogue Version Japanese to English Retranslation" which implies a requirement not to editorialise over the original script. I can see a strong argument to tell people that, if they want the English names, a perfectly good English Phantasy Star 1 with all the English names was already released back in 1988. You could argue that what we should really be aiming for is the version of Phantasy Star that Sega should have made. However, when we can find sources that quote Gamer Miki, who made the enemy stats, saying that the balance is bad at the start, should we start changing those values too? The differences between the English and Japanese PS "universes" are documented in detail here and here, although they offer more confusion as they Romanise a lot of words differently (Dark Phallus, anyone?). Reading some of that, we'll never make anyone happy. Since I'm in the unenviable position of being the "boss" of this operation now, it falls to me to make the Big Boss Evil Decisions. I say, we should not take any liberties to change the meaning of anything, but we should aim to be presenting the Japanese "universe" PS1 to the world with minimal awkwardness and a script that's been checked over by someone with some proven writing ability. So no name changes in that version. (Personally, I find "Odin" far more "retarded" than "Tairon" - it's an unnecessary link to Norse legend for no reason at all.) The Flow Mover is a type of hovercraft, but it's called a Flow Mover and (unless an identical hovercraft features later in the series without that name) has no reason to be changed. Perilomate and ruoginin are not exactly easy for us gaijin to say but laziness is a bad excuse. Regarding ambiguous translations for Motab/via etc, original Japanese romanisations disagree too, so here we can try to go for consistency with the English versions because there is no better way to go. However, I'm not against having an "other" version which ties in closely with the English versions of PS II and IV (as far as they manage to be consistent with each other). I'm totally unfamiliar with those and I'd have to take advice on the best naming for that - unless TheRedEye or someone else already involved wishes to do that - but that can be done after we sort out everything else. I'm still undecided about US/UK versions, though. I have a strange desire to translate the more slang-like parts into proper bad English instead of American, but I lack a lot of the creative ability; at best I can fix the spellings, though. |
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Keeping it Japanese
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:36 am
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I agree with Maxim. I think that the whole point of the retranslation is to create a version that's faithful to the original, regardless of whether it's more palatable than the official English translation. The reason I decided to retranslate the game myself was so I (and others) could see what the game might've been like had name changes and things not been made, due to ROM and display space limitations and other considerations, not to mention to play the game in English with FM audio.
Some quick notes... The characters names are most likely 'Alisa', 'Myau', 'Tylon', and 'Lutz' (rhymes with 'boots', not 'butts'). 'Alisa' might even translate as 'Alicer' or 'Aretha', but unlikely so. 'Myau' is just 'Myau'. 'Tylon' is probably more accurate than 'Tairon/Tyrone'. As for 'Lutz', well, I'm not excited about the pronunciation 'roots', but that's probably what it is. Other notes... What was called 'Baya Malay' in the official English version should probably be called 'Baya Marlay'. Also, the slang I used in the script is American. Maybe we can try to find a middle ground there, using slang that applies to English in general. Slang's gonna be necessary in a few spots, though, mostly to reflect the "zura" dialect spoken by the Dezorians. At the very least, they need to use some sort of dialect (hopefully something other than the "zee Algol is in great danger, yes", or whatever that the original had). Overall I think, to keep things simple, we should just go with whatever the translation dictates. That is, we should use the original script, translated literally, with stylistic changes only for the purpose of creating natural-sounding English. -- Paul |
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:43 am
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| Sounds good to me. The production sketches from the Compendium book might help nail down the original intentions for romanisation/pronunciation. See also this page of screen captures from the Saturn PS Collection showing what looks like production sketches with unfortunately incompatible romanisations. | |
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Re: Keeping it Japanese
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:09 pm
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Maybe it's supposed to be "Ruth"? That would make some sense... |
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Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:45 pm
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| Oh, just to make it clear, I don't want to actually change the script at all, in any meaningful way. I was talking about only the names of places and characters, which is entirely up to Maxim as far as I see it. | |
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sa-two
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Re: Keeping it Japanese
Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:47 pm
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What I saw in the script I looked at, it was written as "Rutsu" in katakana. Personally, I'd probably go with something that rhymes with "sluts" (which is what I always read as "Lutz" as). "Roots" is written as "ruutsu" in katakana, and "Ruth" as "ruusu". |
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PS1J Manual
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:52 am
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I was thinking that it would be nice if we could offer an English translation for the manual to PS1J to accompany the translated ROM/patch/etc. Seeing as how the ball is rolling in a big way, I figured this might be a good time to ask again: does anybody out there have a high-quality scanned copy of the manual for PS1J? Is there anybody out there with a copy of the manual and access to a decent-quality scanner? If so, would any of these people be able to e-mail me a copy so I can translate it?
Thanks, --- Paul |
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Re: PS1J Manual
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:44 am
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Let me do the scanning (ASAP). |
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Re: PS1J Manual
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:43 pm
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Uploading files here: http://www.smspower.org/misc/sms-jp-phantasy_star/ So far I did the first 11 pages of the manual (out of 40). The rest will magically appear in this directory later. If someone happen to translate the pages and I'm late with the scanning, feel free to remind me. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:10 am
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Thanks, Bock. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of it.
-- Paul |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:35 am
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*Update* All 40 pages done now. I saved them as 800 pixel wide JPEG. I kept original PNG scanned in 300 DPI (~1400 pixels per pixel), before rotation and cropping. |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:47 pm
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| So are you translating it, Paul? Otherwise I'll ask other people to look at it. | |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:19 pm Last edited by Paul Jensen on Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Yes. I'll get started on it later today. It shouldn't take too long, as there's really not a lot of text. Plus, the use of kanji will help disambiguate words, and since the kanji have furigana guides, it'll be easy to look up words if i don't know them already. As for a time frame, I'm not sure. I work during the week, but I have evenings free. Hopefully it won't take too long. As for the translation of the game itself, I'd still like to go through and make any necessary corrections to it before anybody starts rewriting it. I noticed a few mistakes in there already, so I'd like to take the time to check out the script in its entirety. Also, what variety of English should we use in the translation? Naturally, American English (AmE) is easiest for me, but should we use British/European English instead? Should we find some sort of middle ground? Do you guys think it matters much? -- Paul |
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Screenshots for the manual
Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:32 pm
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I was wondering... should we replace the screenshots in the manual with their equivalents fron the translated ROM, or just paste text over the text in the screenshots in the manual. Personally, I think the former would look more professional, but what you you guys think?
-- Paul |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:35 pm
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| I like the screenshot idea, could make a very niceHQ manual when all done. cool. | |
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Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:52 pm
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Between moving and going on a trip, I can't even start rewriting until the 18th anyway. So go for it! |
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:30 am
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Well, yesterday was quite productive. I (almost) finished hacking the name entry screen - there's a tiny cursor bug which wll require some very careful hacking to solve.
I also made a new title screen, which took a while to get small enough to fit in the ROM space (by trial-and-error palette reordering): 
And I disassembled the credits routines (they're actually a "wall decoration" code the same as doors) to add in some extra names. 
These last two are perhaps a bit controversial. The title screen seems OK to me, because it helps differentiate it from the Japanese version to avoid confusion, and may be used to differentiate any different versions we make. The credits are in English already. I considered adding in "real names" next to some of them (Bo, Buuuu Yuji, etc) but that would require me to create some extra space. I do not want to delete any existing credits, just increase the number of credits per screen to make room for those people who've worked on it - and there's plenty of room for that. But I'm not sure if that's going too far. Any opinions? |
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:55 am
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Just wanted to say I'm glad the translation work has been picked up after so long.
I have been hoping this would happen for years. Thanks a lot to everyone involved! |
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Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:12 pm
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I don't know if a (C) copyright sign is appropriate for SMS Power collective. Maybe "Retranslation by SMS Power!" ?
I think it would be good (if it fits). |
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