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Did they programmers use a kind of level editor to produce a map of tiles organized into different level for platformers like Wonderboy etc. Or was/is these maps coded by hand into some kind of big table?

I understand the concepts of tile and tilemap - but I am not sure how these are composed into typical levels in sidescrollers...?

There would have been a level design, maybe on paper and then hand-converted to the format used by the game. Later, there would have been some tools to help; we have a few of them, but they are not as nice as modern level editors.

OK - can you maybe point me to some of these tools? - and/or maybe to some well-commented examples of simples sidescrolling games/demos? I'm working my way into one of my great unsolved childhood mysteries: How the game knows - and makes - what comes next when scrolling. I'm reading Charles Mac Donalds paper on the VDP.

Maxim - you never did finish lesson 2? It looked like just what I needed to satisfy my curiosity towards the issues of scrolling (and thank you for lesson 1 - it was a giant leap for me).

Lesson 2 in an old form can be found in the web archive, but I don't like it. To answer your question, I think it would be better to reverse engineer a game. There's some documentation for some of the Sonic games online if you want to start with that.

I'm studying Heliophobe's scroller demo in the homebrew section. The data to be scrolled (in his case it is tiles forming letters, but it could also be tiles as objects in a black/white level) is included from a separate file called mapdata.z80. This is a nice file with lines like.

db 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1

I can follow how this is the map of the 'level'/world to be scrolled, defining which tiles are blank and which ones are filled (only two types of tiles in this demo). Heliophobe states in a comment that he has not typed this data in by hand - my question is then: How can one produce a file like this? What kind of editor will let you do this quickly?

Maxim - I have searched for your lesson 2, but have not been able to locate it anywhere?

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.smspower.org/maxim/howtoprogram/lesson2....

You make a program that takes in an image - e.g. a PNG file - and emits the data - text in this case. Heliophobe's demo is not representative because it is holding just 1s and 0s for the tiles themselves, whereas a real game would be using metatiles and dealing with more than just the graphical appearance.

thank you for the link and tip. I'm studying the material for the time being.

Oh my - now I can scroll the screen horizontally with an interrupt handler. Next step = conquer the world :)

For vertical scrollers there are hidden rows of tiles where any updates to the background can be performed before the tiles are being scrolled up unto the screen. How do (horizontal) sidescrollers go about this - which column can be updated with the tiles to be scrolled onto the screen at the right side?

EDIT: I think I got it now - inspired by the Software Reference Manual.

Author	Message
hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Level editor? Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:36 am
	Did they programmers use a kind of level editor to produce a map of tiles organized into different level for platformers like Wonderboy etc. Or was/is these maps coded by hand into some kind of big table? I understand the concepts of tile and tilemap - but I am not sure how these are composed into typical levels in sidescrollers...?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:09 am
	There would have been a level design, maybe on paper and then hand-converted to the format used by the game. Later, there would have been some tools to help; we have a few of them, but they are not as nice as modern level editors.

hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:36 am
	OK - can you maybe point me to some of these tools? - and/or maybe to some well-commented examples of simples sidescrolling games/demos? I'm working my way into one of my great unsolved childhood mysteries: How the game knows - and makes - what comes next when scrolling. I'm reading Charles Mac Donalds paper on the VDP. Maxim - you never did finish lesson 2? It looked like just what I needed to satisfy my curiosity towards the issues of scrolling (and thank you for lesson 1 - it was a giant leap for me).

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:43 am
	Lesson 2 in an old form can be found in the web archive, but I don't like it. To answer your question, I think it would be better to reverse engineer a game. There's some documentation for some of the Sonic games online if you want to start with that.

hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:01 pm
	I'm studying Heliophobe's scroller demo in the homebrew section. The data to be scrolled (in his case it is tiles forming letters, but it could also be tiles as objects in a black/white level) is included from a separate file called mapdata.z80. This is a nice file with lines like. db 1,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1 I can follow how this is the map of the 'level'/world to be scrolled, defining which tiles are blank and which ones are filled (only two types of tiles in this demo). Heliophobe states in a comment that he has not typed this data in by hand - my question is then: How can one produce a file like this? What kind of editor will let you do this quickly? Maxim - I have searched for your lesson 2, but have not been able to locate it anywhere?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:22 pm
	http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.smspower.org/maxim/howtoprogram/lesson2.... You make a program that takes in an image - e.g. a PNG file - and emits the data - text in this case. Heliophobe's demo is not representative because it is holding just 1s and 0s for the tiles themselves, whereas a real game would be using metatiles and dealing with more than just the graphical appearance.

hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:27 am
	thank you for the link and tip. I'm studying the material for the time being.

hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:38 pm
	Oh my - now I can scroll the screen horizontally with an interrupt handler. Next step = conquer the world :) For vertical scrollers there are hidden rows of tiles where any updates to the background can be performed before the tiles are being scrolled up unto the screen. How do (horizontal) sidescrollers go about this - which column can be updated with the tiles to be scrolled onto the screen at the right side? EDIT: I think I got it now - inspired by the Software Reference Manual.

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