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First of all, I know the SMS is technically superior to the NES in many ways, but didn't have much 3rd party support, due to Ni****do's strict 3rd-party policy. What I'm confused about is the sound. Sure, the NES may have had more sound channels than the SMS and duty cycles for its square channels, but how is the sound better on the SMS?????? No, I'm not talking about the FM chip, I'm talking about the PSG chip. I heard from a lot of reviews that the SMS has a superior sound chip when compared to the NES's sound chip. Exactly why IS the SMS sound better? Please explain! Thank you! :)

It's like this...

SMS PSG: 3 square wave channels, one white noise/different wave shape channel that needs to steal a tone channel for anything other than basic noise (explosions, music percussion).

NES: 2 square wave channels, one kind-of triangle wave, one white noise channel. Plus a sample-playing channel which is kind of complicated. The hardware has a few more features than the SMS too.

So... the NES sound chip is more complicated, but it's pretty close. The real thing is...

...most NES games were half-assed cheap knocked-together crap, and the sound suffered first because it's not going to make any difference because you don't hear the sound until after you've bought the game, unlike seeing the screenshots. The SMS generally had better programmed sound.

In the end, though, it's a matter of opinion. I've not heard a lot of NES music, since I haven't played it much, but if the Mario games are anything to go by, the SMS is better.

Maxim

Right. Well, remember its our own opinion. And I'm not dissing the SMS's sound chip, I just find good and bad things about the SMS chip:

The Good

Noise - First of all, the NES and SMS have the noise channel and their own form of main instruments. SMS's noise was very superior when compared to NES's noise. The NES only had white noise, while the SMS noise can be switched to synchronous noise, capable of playing a 6.25% duty pulse waveform and creating enhanced 8-bit SFX. The only drawback is that the noise channel has to borrow the 3rd tone channel, if it wants to play multiple frequencies instead of the 3 selectable pitches (for explosions, better drums or extra instrument).

The Bad

The pulse channels - The NES has 5 PSG channels: 2 pulse wave channels (with 4 duty cycle settings: 87.5%, 75%, 50%, and 25%), one triangle wave, one noise, and a digital channel. The SMS has 3-4 PSG channels: 3 pulse waves, with the duty cycle setting to 50%, and one noise channel.

The pulse and noise channels on the NES have 16 volume levels. The triangle and digital channels have no volume control. The noise channel has 16 frequency settings.

All channels on the SMS have 16 volume levels.

My problem with the pulse channels on the SMS is that they only have one duty cycle (50%), which is the reason why you keep hearing that old ass square wave chip that is also heard in other electronic devices. So what do you get? Crappy SFX and music! Sure, the SMS noise is better, but not the pulse channels. For me to appreciate the sound, the noise could be used for that "6.25% duty cycle effect" for another instrument, and almost all the sound effects. Compare the Star Wars game on the NES to the SMS version. Yes, the SMS version has better graphics, but still, the SFX are played by the square channels, so the sound is awful on the SMS. To keep me happy with the music and SFX, the developers have to make the music and SFX right to give the sound no difference when compared to the NES. Another drawback is that the lowest pitch on the SMS is one octave higher than the NES's lowest pitch on its pulse channels. I don't care about the sample playback being done by stopping the game, I just care about the sound! Hey, suppose I was offered to improve the SMS's sound chip? Guess what I would do? I would add 2 sawtooth wave channels, giving the SMS better music and SFX to provide.

In conclusion, no, I am NOT dissing the SMS and its chip. To tell you the truth, I don't appreciate the square wave's inconvenience. But that's my opinion. The SMS's sound chip is basically the same as the NES's sound chip, only more primitive. And hey, the SMS's sound chip was better than Atari's old machines' sound chips! (Not counting Lynx, counting the systems before the Master System)

Quote

>I don't care about the sample playback being done by stopping the game, I just care about the sound! Hey, suppose I was offered to improve the SMS's sound chip? Guess what I would do? I would add 2 sawtooth wave channels, giving the SMS better music and SFX to provide.

Really? I'd put a YM2151 in it ;)

Quote

> In conclusion, no, I am NOT dissing the SMS and its chip. To tell you the truth, I don't appreciate the square wave's inconvenience. But that's my opinion. The SMS's sound chip is basically the same as the NES's sound chip, only more primitive.

I think it's about the same actually by the sound of their output. They both have their own style though (e.g. that soft triangle wave), which is quite cool.

Quote

>And hey, the SMS's sound chip was better than Atari's old machines' sound chips! (Not counting Lynx, counting the systems before the Master System)

SMS sound chip was the same as the Lynx actually.
When did the C64 come out, that had an amazing sound chip! Looked crap to start with, then with a bit of programming, performs magic!

Quote

> Really? I'd put a YM2151 in it ;)

No, I don't think so. After reading about the YM2151, the sound on the YM2151 doesn't really give the 8-bit feel. It is more suitable for 16-bit machines, and hey, this chip should enhance the Sega Genesis by channels instead of the SMS!

What I am talking about is a chip music add on for the SMS, not FM-generated or sample playback. In-cart chips I would like to put in can either produce as follows:

Triangle waveforms
Square waveforms, with at least 4 selectable duty cycles (This was what the NES's and C64's sound chips had, a number of duty cycles to choose from. This, however, is something missing in the SMS, so basically the duty cycle on the SMS is set to 50%.)
Sawtooth waveforms
Sine waveforms
Noise waveforms

Quote

> SMS sound chip was the same as the Lynx actually.
> When did the C64 come out, that had an amazing sound chip! Looked crap to start with, then with a bit of programming, performs magic!

The SMS had 3 pulse channels, and one noise channel (can be white or synchronous noise)

The Lynx had 4 channels, each of them had an 8-bit DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter), capable of playing samples

I would have to agree that the C64's SID chip, the sound chip it used, is vastly superior, when you compare it to the NES and SMS sound chips. The only problem with the SID is that there are only so many channels. Only three channels for the SID isn't enough, but composers, later on, starting using a fourth channel for 8-bit digitized samples, though the sample rates were rather low. There was only 1 drawback to this sampling feature - you couldnt use it during the game or the machine came to a grinding halt while it tried to move all of the sprites & graphics. So it was a special feature for "Title screens" only.

Quote

> The SMS had 3 pulse channels, and one noise channel (can be white or synchronous noise)

> The Lynx had 4 channels, each of them had an 8-bit DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter), capable of playing samples

Oo crap you're right, - where the hell did I get Lynx=SN76496 from???? Sorry bout that!

Author	Message
Chris Kelly Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 55 Location: Albany, NY	Hearing that the SMS has better sound quality than NES, what makes it have better sound? Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:14 am
	First of all, I know the SMS is technically superior to the NES in many ways, but didn't have much 3rd party support, due to Ni****do's strict 3rd-party policy. What I'm confused about is the sound. Sure, the NES may have had more sound channels than the SMS and duty cycles for its square channels, but how is the sound better on the SMS?????? No, I'm not talking about the FM chip, I'm talking about the PSG chip. I heard from a lot of reviews that the SMS has a superior sound chip when compared to the NES's sound chip. Exactly why IS the SMS sound better? Please explain! Thank you! :)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	It's a matter of opinion Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 3:49 pm
	It's like this... SMS PSG: 3 square wave channels, one white noise/different wave shape channel that needs to steal a tone channel for anything other than basic noise (explosions, music percussion). NES: 2 square wave channels, one kind-of triangle wave, one white noise channel. Plus a sample-playing channel which is kind of complicated. The hardware has a few more features than the SMS too. So... the NES sound chip is more complicated, but it's pretty close. The real thing is... ...most NES games were half-assed cheap knocked-together crap, and the sound suffered first because it's not going to make any difference because you don't hear the sound until after you've bought the game, unlike seeing the screenshots. The SMS generally had better programmed sound. In the end, though, it's a matter of opinion. I've not heard a lot of NES music, since I haven't played it much, but if the Mario games are anything to go by, the SMS is better. Maxim

Chris Kelly Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 55 Location: Albany, NY	And my opinion is..... Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 8:43 pm
	Right. Well, remember its our own opinion. And I'm not dissing the SMS's sound chip, I just find good and bad things about the SMS chip: The Good Noise - First of all, the NES and SMS have the noise channel and their own form of main instruments. SMS's noise was very superior when compared to NES's noise. The NES only had white noise, while the SMS noise can be switched to synchronous noise, capable of playing a 6.25% duty pulse waveform and creating enhanced 8-bit SFX. The only drawback is that the noise channel has to borrow the 3rd tone channel, if it wants to play multiple frequencies instead of the 3 selectable pitches (for explosions, better drums or extra instrument). The Bad The pulse channels - The NES has 5 PSG channels: 2 pulse wave channels (with 4 duty cycle settings: 87.5%, 75%, 50%, and 25%), one triangle wave, one noise, and a digital channel. The SMS has 3-4 PSG channels: 3 pulse waves, with the duty cycle setting to 50%, and one noise channel. The pulse and noise channels on the NES have 16 volume levels. The triangle and digital channels have no volume control. The noise channel has 16 frequency settings. All channels on the SMS have 16 volume levels. My problem with the pulse channels on the SMS is that they only have one duty cycle (50%), which is the reason why you keep hearing that old ass square wave chip that is also heard in other electronic devices. So what do you get? Crappy SFX and music! Sure, the SMS noise is better, but not the pulse channels. For me to appreciate the sound, the noise could be used for that "6.25% duty cycle effect" for another instrument, and almost all the sound effects. Compare the Star Wars game on the NES to the SMS version. Yes, the SMS version has better graphics, but still, the SFX are played by the square channels, so the sound is awful on the SMS. To keep me happy with the music and SFX, the developers have to make the music and SFX right to give the sound no difference when compared to the NES. Another drawback is that the lowest pitch on the SMS is one octave higher than the NES's lowest pitch on its pulse channels. I don't care about the sample playback being done by stopping the game, I just care about the sound! Hey, suppose I was offered to improve the SMS's sound chip? Guess what I would do? I would add 2 sawtooth wave channels, giving the SMS better music and SFX to provide. In conclusion, no, I am NOT dissing the SMS and its chip. To tell you the truth, I don't appreciate the square wave's inconvenience. But that's my opinion. The SMS's sound chip is basically the same as the NES's sound chip, only more primitive. And hey, the SMS's sound chip was better than Atari's old machines' sound chips! (Not counting Lynx, counting the systems before the Master System)

finaldave Guest	Re: And my opinion is..... Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:48 am
finaldave Guest	Quote >I don't care about the sample playback being done by stopping the game, I just care about the sound! Hey, suppose I was offered to improve the SMS's sound chip? Guess what I would do? I would add 2 sawtooth wave channels, giving the SMS better music and SFX to provide. Really? I'd put a YM2151 in it ;) Quote > In conclusion, no, I am NOT dissing the SMS and its chip. To tell you the truth, I don't appreciate the square wave's inconvenience. But that's my opinion. The SMS's sound chip is basically the same as the NES's sound chip, only more primitive. I think it's about the same actually by the sound of their output. They both have their own style though (e.g. that soft triangle wave), which is quite cool. Quote >And hey, the SMS's sound chip was better than Atari's old machines' sound chips! (Not counting Lynx, counting the systems before the Master System) SMS sound chip was the same as the Lynx actually. When did the C64 come out, that had an amazing sound chip! Looked crap to start with, then with a bit of programming, performs magic!

Chris Kelly Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 55 Location: Albany, NY	Re: And my opinion is..... Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2002 7:19 pm
	Quote > Really? I'd put a YM2151 in it ;) No, I don't think so. After reading about the YM2151, the sound on the YM2151 doesn't really give the 8-bit feel. It is more suitable for 16-bit machines, and hey, this chip should enhance the Sega Genesis by channels instead of the SMS! What I am talking about is a chip music add on for the SMS, not FM-generated or sample playback. In-cart chips I would like to put in can either produce as follows: Triangle waveforms Square waveforms, with at least 4 selectable duty cycles (This was what the NES's and C64's sound chips had, a number of duty cycles to choose from. This, however, is something missing in the SMS, so basically the duty cycle on the SMS is set to 50%.) Sawtooth waveforms Sine waveforms Noise waveforms Quote > SMS sound chip was the same as the Lynx actually. > When did the C64 come out, that had an amazing sound chip! Looked crap to start with, then with a bit of programming, performs magic! The SMS had 3 pulse channels, and one noise channel (can be white or synchronous noise) The Lynx had 4 channels, each of them had an 8-bit DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter), capable of playing samples I would have to agree that the C64's SID chip, the sound chip it used, is vastly superior, when you compare it to the NES and SMS sound chips. The only problem with the SID is that there are only so many channels. Only three channels for the SID isn't enough, but composers, later on, starting using a fourth channel for 8-bit digitized samples, though the sample rates were rather low. There was only 1 drawback to this sampling feature - you couldnt use it during the game or the machine came to a grinding halt while it tried to move all of the sprites & graphics. So it was a special feature for "Title screens" only.

finaldave Guest	Re: And my opinion is..... Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:14 pm
finaldave Guest	Quote > The SMS had 3 pulse channels, and one noise channel (can be white or synchronous noise) > The Lynx had 4 channels, each of them had an 8-bit DAC (Digital-to-Analog Converter), capable of playing samples Oo crap you're right, - where the hell did I get Lynx=SN76496 from???? Sorry bout that!

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