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Genre classication
Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:58 pm
This thread is to discuss genre classification and genre icons.
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:03 pm
Ron Stard recently made those modifications:

# Games.AlexKiddHighTechWorld-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:46 am by Ron_Stard: According to the catalogue Nº 670-0430, AKIHTW is a RPG game. Therefore, I have change genre
# Games.Golvellius-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:44 am by Ron_Stard: According to the catalogue Nº 670-0704-03, Golvellius is a RPG game. Therefore, I have change genre
# Games.GoldenAxeWarrior-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 am by Ron_Stard: Added RPG to the genre, as well as its tag
# Games.SpellCaster-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:33 am by Ron_Stard: Added RPG to the genre, as well as its tag


Basically adding RPG genre icon + tag to those 4 games.
We originally intentionally have not flagged those games as RPG because we believed they don't classify as such, regardless of what a catalog say.

This is the current stance, but we're open to opinions about it.

A similar case: initially we intended to include the genre shown in the upper-left "flash/asterix" thing on each box. The problem we found this is that they are not consistent at all and some games are oddly labelled. And there is the "Arcade" genre which sounds a little strange to justify in this day and age. So eventually we just stopping copying this tag and just selecting Genre/Tags as appropriate.
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:47 pm
I would classify Golvellius and Golden Axe Warrior as RPGs. (If a Zelda rip-off isn't an RPG, what is?) AKIHTW I would disagree with, unless "going around talking to NPCs" means RPG. Spellcaster I can only look at screenshots so I can't judge.

I agree that catalogue/cover classifications are often weird and ACTION is too vague (may as well say GAME). On the other hand, as we are using the Sega genre icons, would it be weird to not match the box in those cases?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:47 pm
Sorry, I was editing my earlier post to correct some things, and accidentally, I deleted it =S .

Not only Action is an ambiguous category, but also Shooting. About the genre icons, well... I've never seen them on a box (at least, on Europe, from where I am), but obviously, there are some cases in which we should re-assign the classifications.

In SpellCaster, I remember the character had to travel and fight to some places, searching for objects and talking to people. It has a little of RPG and a little of platform game (oh, by the way: many of the Shooting and Action games should be labelled as "Platform-like": it would fit better and help others to know what the game is about). About AKIHTW, well... it's a mix of various styles. The only RPG part would be the first stage, and there is not much to do than wander by the rooms... Maybe Puzzle?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:51 pm
--- This was my earlier post, by the way (thank you, Notepad =) : ---

Bock wrote
Ron Stard recently made those modifications:

# Games.AlexKiddHighTechWorld-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:46 am by Ron_Stard: According to the catalogue Nº 670-0430, AKIHTW is a RPG game. Therefore, I have change genre
# Games.Golvellius-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:44 am by Ron_Stard: According to the catalogue Nº 670-0704-03, Golvellius is a RPG game. Therefore, I have change genre
# Games.GoldenAxeWarrior-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:35 am by Ron_Stard: Added RPG to the genre, as well as its tag
# Games.SpellCaster-SMS . . . Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:33 am by Ron_Stard: Added RPG to the genre, as well as its tag


Basically adding RPG genre icon + tag to those 4 games.
We originally intentionally have not flagged those games as RPG because we believed they don't classify as such, regardless of what a catalog say.

This is the current stance, but we're open to opinions about it.

A similar case: initially we intended to include the genre shown in the upper-left "flash/asterix" thing on each box. The problem we found this is that they are not consistent at all and some games are oddly labelled. And there is the "Arcade" genre which sounds a little strange to justify in this day and age. So eventually we just stopping copying this tag and just selecting Genre/Tags as appropriate.


I agree with the fact that some games were labelled in a very outlandish way. Cartridges like Super Monaco GP were originally classificated as an Action game, not even as Sports or at least Arcade! I think the RPG discussion can be widen to the other "classical" classifications: Arcade, Action, Shooting, Puzzle, Sports and Family.

But let's center on the primary topic:

Apart from the catalogues' classification, I think those four games share a RPG style, or at least, a very important characteristic of the Role Playing: within them, you can talk (and normally, you are forced to do it) with other characters, in order to gather useful information and objects. Also, you can rise your experience points during the game, as you advance and beat the bosses (or by other ways).

Perhaps this is not a very accurate description of the RPG games in general, because there are many more games which could be labelled that way (for example, Wonder Boy III or Ecco The Dolphin). But I think these four are more than Action games.

But this is only my opinion, of course. What is the current criterion about RPGs like, for instance, Ultima IV or Phantasy Star?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:17 pm
TV Tropes seems to have a fair definition of the different genres- perhaps we could deconstruct the game play to determine what genres a given title fits into.
But since many genres and games overlap it might be useful to draw them on a map (radar graph? vein diagram?) to see how they relate.

My browser history at TV Tropes:
tvtropes.org RPGElements
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:11 am
Snow_Cat wrote
TV Tropes seems to have a fair definition of the different genres- perhaps we could deconstruct the game play to determine what genres a given title fits into.
But since many genres and games overlap it might be useful to draw them on a map (radar graph? vein diagram?) to see how they relate.

My browser history at TV Tropes:
tvtropes.org RPGElements


Nice idea! There are some games that can't be easily classified in only one category (think of Impossible Mission or Rampart). By the way: Lemmings and Populous would be, according to this list, Real Time Strategy games?
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:05 am
I am not suggestign we go with a single label for these titles, only that we draw up definitions for what sort of game would typically fit each genre. Then we may label games as being part of (one or more) genres. And we certainly should not shoehorn them into genres.

RTS games for example are characterized by having descrete units built and controlled by players against an opposing force of similar units on a common playfield.

Lemmings does not have an opposing force of similar nature since you typically do not have your own gravity and fire. I would describe it as a plaform-puzzle.

And RTS does not properly describe Popolus since combat has been abstracted and most the game play is managerial; so I'd consider it a simulation/management game.

Though- what it says on the box, and other sources such as Moby Games and http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ should be a good place to start. Though off beat games like Caves or Lander don't really have a normal classification, and we should make up one that fits, since Action-Simulation-Platform-Racer is a bit awkward to tag with.

More TV Tropes.
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:49 pm
Snow_Cat wrote
I am not suggestign we go with a single label for these titles, only that we draw up definitions for what sort of game would typically fit each genre. Then we may label games as being part of (one or more) genres. And we certainly should not shoehorn them into genres.

RTS games for example are characterized by having descrete units built and controlled by players against an opposing force of similar units on a common playfield.

Lemmings does not have an opposing force of similar nature since you typically do not have your own gravity and fire. I would describe it as a plaform-puzzle.

And RTS does not properly describe Popolus since combat has been abstracted and most the game play is managerial; so I'd consider it a simulation/management game.

Though- what it says on the box, and other sources such as Moby Games and http://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/ should be a good place to start. Though off beat games like Caves or Lander don't really have a normal classification, and we should make up one that fits, since Action-Simulation-Platform-Racer is a bit awkward to tag with.

More TV Tropes.


Ok, let's start re-labelling (if needed) the RPG and so-called RPG. Later we could point out other classical classification, and review it completely. I think these are all of the so-called RPGs that Sega was proud to sell us on the SMS:

-Alex Kidd In High Tech World
-Dragon Crystal
-Golden Axe Warrior
-Golvellius
-Heroes Of The Lance
-King's Quest
-Lord Of The Sword
-Miracle Warriors
-Phantasy Star
-SpellCaster
-Ultima IV
-Y's

Twelve in total. I think I don't forget any. How many of these would fit undoubtly under the RPG seal, according to TV Tropes? I think Dragon Crystal, Heroes Of The Lance, Golden Axe Warrior, Ultima IV & Phantasy Star are 100% belonging to this category, while AKIHTW is more of the like of, say, "Where In The World Is Carmen SanDiego?", and SpellCaster has equal amount of action and RPG. I have not played much the other five to pronounce about them, so... Let's discuss! =)
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:56 pm
I can't see AKIHTW as a RPG -- it's more of a weird hybrid between a platformer and a graphic adventure. I'd like to look up a different game with the same gameplay mechanic so I can see if there's a name for the genre, but I can't think of any other games like it!
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:12 pm
(Pedantic note: there's no "in" in Alex Kidd: High-Tech World.)

AKHTW has the generic red "ACTION" box-corner-flash, not the purple "ADVENTURE ROLE-PLAYING" Sega gave to most of the titles on the RPG list. I think it's multi-genre platform/puzzle/adventure and therefore not a paradigm of any genre. I wouldn't give it the RPG tag because (even ignoring the platforming) it has no stats or levels.

Cosmic Spacehead is the nearest similar game I can think of, and that's clearly an adventure/platform hybrid.
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:18 pm
Maxim wrote
(Pedantic note: there's no "in" in Alex Kidd: High-Tech World.)

AKHTW has the generic red "ACTION" box-corner-flash, not the purple "ADVENTURE ROLE-PLAYING" Sega gave to most of the titles on the RPG list.


Yes, both facts are true =) . But despite of the red triangle, AKHTW was included on the RPG section in at least two catalogues (and strangely, Alex Kidd - The Lost Stars was also mentioned as RPG in one of them =S ). Maybe it was a mistake, or -probably- a last-minute forced classification.

Now I am thinking on "Alf", which, as AKHTW, is also a hodge-podge, regarding the "Where-could-I-classify-this?" feeling =) . Oh, the minor jewels, how many headaches bring us! =P
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:29 am
I does Action-Adventure fit? I looked at TV Trope's page on Alex Kidd and it does not try to label this game's genre specifically but does mention platformer and Gameplay Roulette...
Wikipedia.org's page on Alex Kidd: High-Tech World describes it as a side-scrolling platform game, while the MobyGames.com page describes it as being an action/strategy game played from a Side-Scrolling, 3rd-Person Perspective, Platform.

tvtrpoes.org on the subject of ActionAdventure wrote
The essential traits of an action adventure are considered to include reflex-based gameplay, an action game element, combined with item collecting, environment exploration and puzzle solving, which are associated with the adventure game genre.
...
The key here is that in an action adventure a character either has an ability or he doesn't; there is no measure of how good he is with a given ability (which is considered an RPG element).
wikipedia.org on the topic of platformer wrote
The platform game (or platformer) is a video game genre characterized by jumping to and from suspended platforms or over obstacles (jumping puzzles). It must be possible to control these jumps and to fall from platforms or miss jumps. The most common unifying element to these games is a jump button; other jump mechanics include swinging from extendable arms, as in Ristar or Bionic Commando, or bouncing from springboards or trampolines, as in Alpha Waves. These mechanics, even in the context of other genres, are commonly called platforming, a verbification of platform. Games where jumping is automated completely, such as The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, fall outside of the genre.
...
[censored?]'s platform game Super Mario Bros., released for the [censored?] in 1985, became the archetype for many platformers to follow. The title was bundled with Ni****do's systems in North America, Japan, and Europe, and went on to sell over 40 million copies according to the 1999 Guinness Book of World Records. Its success as a pack-in led many companies to see platform games as vital to their success, and certainly contributed greatly to popularizing the genre during the 8-bit console generation. Sega attempted to emulate this success with their Alex Kidd series, as well as with the Wonder Boy series. The later Wonder Boy games were also notable for combining adventure and role-playing elements with traditional platforming.[23]
...
23^ "Hardcore Gaming 101: Wonderboy". Hardcore Gaming 101. http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/wonderboy/wonderboy.htm. Retrieved 2010-02-04.
Mobygames.com on the subject of Platform wrote
Describes any action game where the playfield is set up as a series of floors, levels, or platforms for the player to navigate. Platform games usually require a small bit of strategy and/or puzzle solving. Examples: Prince of Persia, Dark Castle, etc.
MobyGames.com on the subjecet of Side Scrolling wrote
Used to describe any game where the main setting of gameplay involves the player moving from one side of the playfield to the other horizontally for a length of time; so named because the player character stays in the same place on-screen, but the entire playfield scrolls left or right to accomodate keeping player movement on-screen at all times. Usually used as a modifier in describing action games; "shooters", etc. Not to be confused with Platform games, which may or may not scroll.


:/ I guess we need to setup some sort of review comitee.
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