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Ive been doing some tests on you guys home made programs. They dont seem to work on a SMS1 bios (bios13fx.sms) so unless there is something wrong with that bios (quite possible) then your programs wouldnt work on a real SMS1 either. im getting software errors with this bios with Street Fighter2, all the code master games, shadow dancer. Weird. I'll keep testing and post my results.
-Jason Starr-

Quote

> Ive been doing some tests on you guys home made programs. They dont seem to work on a SMS1 bios (bios13fx.sms) so unless there is something wrong with that bios (quite possible) then your programs wouldnt work on a real SMS1 either. im getting software errors with this bios with Street Fighter2, all the code master games, shadow dancer. Weird. I'll keep testing and post my results.
> -Jason Starr-

What have you tested?
Prior to the sound test program nothing I released had a proper SMS checksum. (most of them had TMR SEGA but left it at that).

They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering.

-Jason Starr-

Quote

> What have you tested?
> Prior to the sound test program nothing I released had a proper SMS checksum. (most of them had TMR SEGA but left it at that).

None of them prior to Sound Test had proper country/cart size codes either (thought I should mention that in case you wanted to patch them to see if they work).

Back in the day when I'd have Mike G test something the usual routine would be to ask him to patch in the correct checksum and coutnry code, because I never could find the utility to calculate checksums (and no, I didn't really try). Since WLA does checksumming automatically.

I do believe several of my demos have been tested (After patching) on a real SMS 1 (or at least an SMS running a US bios).

K here is the list buddy which work /dont work with SMsbios 1.3
Dont work stands for "software error" which basically means wrong checksum, works means it works

Happy Looser - works
Gfxtest(Charles mc) - Dont work
Damiana - works
Sound Test - works
z80 port test - Dont Work
Sms Power - Seems to make the bios think nothing is plugged in(possibly no SEGA TMR)

pFR_detect 100 - Dont work
pfr_detect 01 - Seems to make bios think nothing is plugged in to cartridge slot (possibly no Sega Tmr)

SMSC Demo (two.sms) - Same as pft_detect01

Thats all i havet ested, there isnt much more homebrewn roms.

-Jason Starr-

Quote

> K here is the list buddy which work /dont work with SMsbios 1.3
> Dont work stands for "software error" which basically means wrong checksum, works means it works

> Happy Looser - works
> Gfxtest(Charles mc) - Dont work
> Damiana - works
> Sound Test - works
> z80 port test - Dont Work
> Sms Power - Seems to make the bios think nothing is plugged in(possibly no SEGA TMR)

> pFR_detect 100 - Dont work
> pfr_detect 01 - Seems to make bios think nothing is plugged in to cartridge slot (possibly no Sega Tmr)

> SMSC Demo (two.sms) - Same as pft_detect01

FWIW, all of the above work on a real SMS 1 with "BIOS13FX", so long as the "TMR SEGA", checksum and country code/cart size are patched in as appropriate, with the following exceptions:

SMS Power! - corrupt display (wrong tiles in certain places):

I think Zoop posted an explanation for this behaviour a while back. It works fine with the Japanese BIOS. Try patching it and running with the BIOS13FX, and see what it does.

PFR Detect (v1.00) - corrupt display:

Mike

Quote

> They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering.

This ties in with my experiance - I lent someone my Micro Machines and it didn't work on his SMS1. Mike G said his SMS1 was knackered when I asked if he'd tried Cosmic Spacehead on an SMS1. I, of course, have no SMS1.

For the record, the box says SMS1 and 2 compatible, but I'm guessing they tried it on a 2 and thought there's no way it could work on one and not the other.

Mike, have you tried Micro Machines on different hardware and BIOSes?

Maxim

Quote

> > They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering.

> This ties in with my experiance - I lent someone my Micro Machines and it didn't work on his SMS1. Mike G said his SMS1 was knackered when I asked if he'd tried Cosmic Spacehead on an SMS1. I, of course, have no SMS1.

> For the record, the box says SMS1 and 2 compatible, but I'm guessing they tried it on a 2 and thought there's no way it could work on one and not the other.

> Mike, have you tried Micro Machines on different hardware and BIOSes?

I've tried it with my SMS 1 and SMS 2 using a number of different BIOSes. There are no problems with MM on the SMS 2 using any BIOS, including the BIOS13FX (US 1.3 BIOS) Jason referred to, or the Japanese BIOS.

On my SMS 1, it refuses to work correctly no matter which BIOS I use in it. The checksum passes fine (no Software Error), but once the game gets past the pink "Absolutely Brilliant" screen the display goes to pot (blank blue screen instead of the title screen). The game doesn't crash - it's still possible to play "blind" and you can hear the sounds - but you don't see what you're supposed to.

I figured that either :

1) The Codemasters games do something very weird and non-standard with the VDP which isn't supported on the SMS 1 VDP (315-5124), or

2) My SMS 1 is knackered :-(

Option 1) would make sense in some respects - there are some games which don't behave correctly on a SMS 2 (notably Y's -Japanese version) so there are hardware differences between the two different versions.

As for other hardware, I had no problems running on a Game Gear (the game was written primarily for the GG, after all!) but had no joy on the MD w/PBC, probably because the PBC doesn't carry a clock line from the Z80.

I wrote the hacked version to a 256k dev cart and tried that - it did play on the MD in this time, but displayed with "regular" borders (i.e. the top and bottom of the Codemasters "super stretchy" display was chopped off, so this mode evidently isn't supported on the MD).

Mike

Quote

> As for other hardware, I had no problems running on a Game Gear (the game was written primarily for the GG, after all!) but had no joy on the MD w/PBC, probably because the PBC doesn't carry a clock line from the Z80.

> I wrote the hacked version to a 256k dev cart and tried that - it did play on the MD in this time, but displayed with "regular" borders (i.e. the top and bottom of the Codemasters "super stretchy" display was chopped off, so this mode evidently isn't supported on the MD).

So...

1. The CLK line is just for the mapper
2. The MD doesn't support the 4 extra lines mode - I think one of the docs says it does support 4 but not 6.

Someone ought to put together a "what we've learnt" doc with this stuff, since it's not covered by the existing ones. I think Jason's is kind of like that, but how about some kind of official SDSC database/list or something? Then we can have fun ratifying and the like.

Maxim

What will surprise you even more is the fact that the SMS2 bios allowed games which didnt work on the SMS1 bios. For instance, PFR_detect, the gfx test program, etc. As far as i know they contain SEGA TMR, but they dont contain correct checksums,yet the bios passed them!!
Another thing is the codie games with SMS1 bios I think, dont even work properly at all. But there could be some implementation errors, as with the SMS2 bios, Double Dragon has thousands of glitches, with the SMS1 bios, it works fine. I have seen a lot of glitches in one bios, switch to another and its fine. im not sure if this is implementation issues (maybe not all is known about port $3e) or whether these bios's werent correctly dumped, or whether certain bios's (uSA/Eur) differ from one another, etc.
IT certainly is interesting. ANother thing I noted, some jap games wont work unless I use the Japanese bios. This is all off the top off my head as im at work, so forgive any slight errors i might make.
-Jason Starr-

Author	Message
PolestaR Guest	Hmm Homebrew people listen up Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:02 am
PolestaR Guest	Ive been doing some tests on you guys home made programs. They dont seem to work on a SMS1 bios (bios13fx.sms) so unless there is something wrong with that bios (quite possible) then your programs wouldnt work on a real SMS1 either. im getting software errors with this bios with Street Fighter2, all the code master games, shadow dancer. Weird. I'll keep testing and post my results. -Jason Starr-

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:04 am
	Quote > Ive been doing some tests on you guys home made programs. They dont seem to work on a SMS1 bios (bios13fx.sms) so unless there is something wrong with that bios (quite possible) then your programs wouldnt work on a real SMS1 either. im getting software errors with this bios with Street Fighter2, all the code master games, shadow dancer. Weird. I'll keep testing and post my results. > -Jason Starr- What have you tested? Prior to the sound test program nothing I released had a proper SMS checksum. (most of them had TMR SEGA but left it at that).

PolestaR Guest	PS. Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:08 am
PolestaR Guest	They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering. -Jason Starr-

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	furthermore Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:18 am
	Quote > What have you tested? > Prior to the sound test program nothing I released had a proper SMS checksum. (most of them had TMR SEGA but left it at that). None of them prior to Sound Test had proper country/cart size codes either (thought I should mention that in case you wanted to patch them to see if they work). Back in the day when I'd have Mike G test something the usual routine would be to ask him to patch in the correct checksum and coutnry code, because I never could find the utility to calculate checksums (and no, I didn't really try). Since WLA does checksumming automatically. I do believe several of my demos have been tested (After patching) on a real SMS 1 (or at least an SMS running a US bios).

PolestaR Guest	Re: furthermore Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 4:21 am
PolestaR Guest	K here is the list buddy which work /dont work with SMsbios 1.3 Dont work stands for "software error" which basically means wrong checksum, works means it works Happy Looser - works Gfxtest(Charles mc) - Dont work Damiana - works Sound Test - works z80 port test - Dont Work Sms Power - Seems to make the bios think nothing is plugged in(possibly no SEGA TMR) pFR_detect 100 - Dont work pfr_detect 01 - Seems to make bios think nothing is plugged in to cartridge slot (possibly no Sega Tmr) SMSC Demo (two.sms) - Same as pft_detect01 Thats all i havet ested, there isnt much more homebrewn roms. -Jason Starr-

Mike G Joined: 21 Apr 2000 Posts: 598 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England	Re: furthermore Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2001 9:40 am
	Quote > K here is the list buddy which work /dont work with SMsbios 1.3 > Dont work stands for "software error" which basically means wrong checksum, works means it works > Happy Looser - works > Gfxtest(Charles mc) - Dont work > Damiana - works > Sound Test - works > z80 port test - Dont Work > Sms Power - Seems to make the bios think nothing is plugged in(possibly no SEGA TMR) > pFR_detect 100 - Dont work > pfr_detect 01 - Seems to make bios think nothing is plugged in to cartridge slot (possibly no Sega Tmr) > SMSC Demo (two.sms) - Same as pft_detect01 FWIW, all of the above work on a real SMS 1 with "BIOS13FX", so long as the "TMR SEGA", checksum and country code/cart size are patched in as appropriate, with the following exceptions: SMS Power! - corrupt display (wrong tiles in certain places): I think Zoop posted an explanation for this behaviour a while back. It works fine with the Japanese BIOS. Try patching it and running with the BIOS13FX, and see what it does. PFR Detect (v1.00) - corrupt display: Mike

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Codies games on an SMS1 Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2001 8:24 pm
	Quote > They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering. This ties in with my experiance - I lent someone my Micro Machines and it didn't work on his SMS1. Mike G said his SMS1 was knackered when I asked if he'd tried Cosmic Spacehead on an SMS1. I, of course, have no SMS1. For the record, the box says SMS1 and 2 compatible, but I'm guessing they tried it on a 2 and thought there's no way it could work on one and not the other. Mike, have you tried Micro Machines on different hardware and BIOSes? Maxim

Mike G Joined: 21 Apr 2000 Posts: 598 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England	Re: Codies games on an SMS1 Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2001 9:00 am
	Quote > > They all work with the Alex Kidd SMS2 bios, in case your wondering. > This ties in with my experiance - I lent someone my Micro Machines and it didn't work on his SMS1. Mike G said his SMS1 was knackered when I asked if he'd tried Cosmic Spacehead on an SMS1. I, of course, have no SMS1. > For the record, the box says SMS1 and 2 compatible, but I'm guessing they tried it on a 2 and thought there's no way it could work on one and not the other. > Mike, have you tried Micro Machines on different hardware and BIOSes? I've tried it with my SMS 1 and SMS 2 using a number of different BIOSes. There are no problems with MM on the SMS 2 using any BIOS, including the BIOS13FX (US 1.3 BIOS) Jason referred to, or the Japanese BIOS. On my SMS 1, it refuses to work correctly no matter which BIOS I use in it. The checksum passes fine (no Software Error), but once the game gets past the pink "Absolutely Brilliant" screen the display goes to pot (blank blue screen instead of the title screen). The game doesn't crash - it's still possible to play "blind" and you can hear the sounds - but you don't see what you're supposed to. I figured that either : 1) The Codemasters games do something very weird and non-standard with the VDP which isn't supported on the SMS 1 VDP (315-5124), or 2) My SMS 1 is knackered :-( Option 1) would make sense in some respects - there are some games which don't behave correctly on a SMS 2 (notably Y's -Japanese version) so there are hardware differences between the two different versions. As for other hardware, I had no problems running on a Game Gear (the game was written primarily for the GG, after all!) but had no joy on the MD w/PBC, probably because the PBC doesn't carry a clock line from the Z80. I wrote the hacked version to a 256k dev cart and tried that - it did play on the MD in this time, but displayed with "regular" borders (i.e. the top and bottom of the Codemasters "super stretchy" display was chopped off, so this mode evidently isn't supported on the MD). Mike

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Ah... Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2001 7:15 pm
	Quote > As for other hardware, I had no problems running on a Game Gear (the game was written primarily for the GG, after all!) but had no joy on the MD w/PBC, probably because the PBC doesn't carry a clock line from the Z80. > I wrote the hacked version to a 256k dev cart and tried that - it did play on the MD in this time, but displayed with "regular" borders (i.e. the top and bottom of the Codemasters "super stretchy" display was chopped off, so this mode evidently isn't supported on the MD). So... 1. The CLK line is just for the mapper 2. The MD doesn't support the 4 extra lines mode - I think one of the docs says it does support 4 but not 6. Someone ought to put together a "what we've learnt" doc with this stuff, since it's not covered by the existing ones. I think Jason's is kind of like that, but how about some kind of official SDSC database/list or something? Then we can have fun ratifying and the like. Maxim

PolestaR Guest	Re: Codies games on an SMS1 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:06 am
PolestaR Guest	What will surprise you even more is the fact that the SMS2 bios allowed games which didnt work on the SMS1 bios. For instance, PFR_detect, the gfx test program, etc. As far as i know they contain SEGA TMR, but they dont contain correct checksums,yet the bios passed them!! Another thing is the codie games with SMS1 bios I think, dont even work properly at all. But there could be some implementation errors, as with the SMS2 bios, Double Dragon has thousands of glitches, with the SMS1 bios, it works fine. I have seen a lot of glitches in one bios, switch to another and its fine. im not sure if this is implementation issues (maybe not all is known about port $3e) or whether these bios's werent correctly dumped, or whether certain bios's (uSA/Eur) differ from one another, etc. IT certainly is interesting. ANother thing I noted, some jap games wont work unless I use the Japanese bios. This is all off the top off my head as im at work, so forgive any slight errors i might make. -Jason Starr-

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