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Jose Manuel Delgado Mendi
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SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Tue Oct 12, 1999 1:31 pm
Hello :)

As you can read in the subject, the idea is to make a SMS developer kid, wich includes a C compiler, a ASM compiler and a SMS linker, wich can produce SMS ROMS directely. We need also a C library covering SMS functions, like IRQ handling, etc....

To make this comìler from GCC is too dificult, but in the net are several free compilers, wich are small in size and powerful in features.

Is someone wants to join to the project write me.

I need some info in the Sega´s developer kit, to make the project as equal as posible to the original.


Saludos,

Jose Manuel Delgado
 
  • Joined: 28 Sep 1999
  • Posts: 1197
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 12, 1999 11:13 pm

Quote
> As you can read in the subject, the idea is to make a SMS developer kid, wich includes a C compiler, a ASM compiler and a SMS linker, wich can produce SMS ROMS directely. We need also a C library covering SMS functions, like IRQ handling, etc....

Interesting idea, but it might be difficult with only 8K of
RAM for free use. It may be a better idea to have an assembler
with some useful libraries like the Magic Kit package for
the PC Engine.

One problem that springs to mind is handling bankswitching,
since you wouldn't immediately know the size of the assembly
code within an object file unless you stripped the symbols.
The compiler tools would need to let you know how much code
has been generated so you'd know when to change banks.

On the other hand, you'd have a linear 48k memory space if
you wanted to completely ignore bankswitching, which is enough
for a fairly complex game or demo.

Quote
> I need some info in the Sega´s developer kit, to make the project as equal as posible to the original.

Well, I'm under the impression there wasn't really any kind
of developer kit. Sega probably sold manuals describing the
hardware and RAM cartridges to developers, who then either used
commercial tools (SN Systems / Cross Products software comes to mind), or
wrote their own.

About the most Sega has ever offered for current consoles from
the Genesis onward are image and sound processing tools, and
in the case of the 32X and Saturn, C compilers. And that's
simply because writing a program in SH-2 assembly would drive
people mad, with things like branch delays and all that. :)
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Eric
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 13, 1999 12:47 am
I have been thinking about how to create SMS/GG programming language tools for quite some time. The difficulty is how to incorporate graphics and sound data. I believe the best approach is through the use of resource files. These resource files could be generated by graphics/sound editing utilities. A SMS/GG linker would then be used to combine these resources with object files created by assemblers or compilers. The resource files would contain the symbols defining the different data structures. (For example, the graphics editing utilities would allow the creation and naming of character table. Any reference to this table could be done similar to an array, where the table name is the array name, and the character data is an offset in the array.) These symbols would be referenced as external symbols in the source code. As usual, the linker would resolve any external symbol references.

Consequently, I believe the first step of a SMS Developer Kit project is designing a linker and resource file specifications. Hopefully, the linker can use object files from already existing assemblers. Once the linker is stable, a compiler that generates assembly source can be written. The final step would be creating a compiler that can generate object files directly.

These are just my suggestions.

I would like to help with this project. I have experience in compiler design, and the use of flex and bison (lexical analyzer and parser generator). Specifically, I would like to help with the linker. However, I don't know how much time I can contribute, as I'm still working on my debugging emulator.

Eric
 
Luke2
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 13, 1999 7:15 pm
hello

maybe you'll find my answer stupids but........

did anyone ask sega or any compagny that made game for the sms if they can give us their official sms dev kit ?
it would be easier if the aim is only to make our won games or modifying existing one...


Luke
 
Chris
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More Re: SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 3:18 am
Luke, asking SEGA for development documents would be like asking Lay's Potato Chips (American
Potato Chip Franchise) for their special bar-b-que flavored chip recipe. The answer is NO.
Otherwise, if video game companies just gave out their documents, we would all be writing
perfect emulators, stealing roms from the net, and SEGA would loose profit, not to mention
hinder the existance of their company. It's a novel idea, but when you get right down to it;
it's purely survival of the fittest. If the video game companies hide special documents,
purchase copyright patents, release only limited amounts of systems information to the
media (video game magazines), then that keeps us on bottom and them on top. This is
how life is. SEGA, even though it's an entertainment company, is a business; just like
any other business out there. And businesses want to get paid and stay on top. No, I'm not
slamming or flamming you; I'm just keeping it real. Thank goodness we have places like
this one and www.consoledev.com.

Chris :o)
 
luke2
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Re: More Re: SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 12:05 pm
chris,

i was just thinking that the sms was old enough and that they don't make money with it anymore

and with all the people on the net, i aws wondering : noone know anybody that work for an ex sms games editor compagny that could ,not officialy, give some stuff for sms devkit ?
 
Nyef
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Re: More Re: SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 1:43 pm
Quote
> chris,

> i was just thinking that the sms was old enough and that they don't make money with it anymore

Their counter-argument is: "But they might". I'm not kidding about this.

Quote
> and with all the people on the net, i aws wondering : noone know anybody that work for an ex sms games editor compagny that could ,not officialy, give some stuff for sms devkit ?

And with all the reverse-engineered docu on the net (including some from a company that did SMS/GG dev), we really need the official stuff? We out here have better docs than they in there do for a lot of systems.

We don't need their devkit. At all. We already have more info than they do.

--Nyef
 
  • Joined: 24 Jun 1999
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  • Location: Paris, France
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Re: More Re: SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Thu Oct 14, 1999 9:29 pm
Quote
> And with all the reverse-engineered docu on the net (including some from a company that did SMS/GG dev),

Which document and company are you talking about ?

Quote
> we really need the official stuff? We out here have better docs than they in there do for a lot of systems.
> We don't need their devkit. At all. We already have more info than they do.

I agree on that point.
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Nyef
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Re: More Re: SMS Developer kit
Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 1999 12:13 am
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> > And with all the reverse-engineered docu on the net (including some from a company that did SMS/GG dev),

> Which document and company are you talking about ?

Damn... I could have sworn we did, but I can't find any evidence of it now.

It must be a conspiracy. :-)

--Nyef
 
Jose Manuel Delgado
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 15, 1999 2:08 pm
Hello :)

Your idea is good. I thounght in make a library of C functions capable of read files or chunks of data, wich could be reconverted to C format by parser, but your idea is so good that I´ve been take it in consideration.

Other main problem is that i don´t know how to make a good compilator. Idon´t know wath bison or flex are (i know them, of course, but i don´t know how to work with it).

If we can develop a "metafile" format for graphics to be linked into SMS programs, I could do a set of utilities and the main compiler. But i think tha the chuncks used for graphics could be loaded through C functions, provided in a library.

Saludos,
Jose Manuel Delgado
 
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