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New Hang On / Safari Hunt BIOS variant (was: SMS Weird Test Results)
Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:05 am
I got my US NTSC Model 1 SMS Power Base last year. It has a Hang-On/Safari Hunt as the built-in game, so I assume that the SMS Test Suite 0.32 would recognize it as such, but reports "unidentified BIOS Found" along with the other information in the attached screenshot.

Also, VDPTest v1.31 shows a lot of errors and weird results, which I have attached. I might have thought this was clone hardware, but it is Sega through-and-through.

I am running these ROMs via the Master EverDrive X7. There is an SMSFM Mod board I installed in the system. Otherwise the system should be as if it were stock. Games run fine.

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:02 am
Interesting! Please get back to that screen and if still writes that the BIOS is not identified, press DOWN on the pad, so that it will create a 16 kiB SAV file on your Everdrive reading from the BIOS ROM.
Can you then please attach that file here? So we can see what's going on - thanks! :)
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 4:14 pm
sverx wrote
Interesting! Please get back to that screen and if still writes that the BIOS is not identified, press DOWN on the pad, so that it will create a 16 kiB SAV file on your Everdrive reading from the BIOS ROM.
Can you then please attach that file here? So we can see what's going on - thanks! :)


I think this is what you're looking for. When comparing this and the first 16K of the v2.4 BIOS, there is only one distinct area of byte differences from 0A38 to 0A83.

The Master EverDrive X7 makes 32K srm files, but I saw nothing but blank above 16K so I cut it down.

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:45 pm
I tried to patch the changes you sent me into the 'regular' BIOS ROM but I can't see any real difference in the outcome.

We might want to download the whole BIOS anyway - the variation may be minimal but if they have done it there's likely a reason.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:44 am
Can the the whole BIOS be dumped from an EverDrive?

Is it possible that my BIOS ROM is corrupt in these few bytes?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:05 am
Honestly I have no idea how to dump the whole BIOS with an EverDrive - maybe someone knows how to do that - feel free to let us know!

As for ROM corruption - I would say it's unlikely in this case. Looking at the data (and code) changed, there's something (slightly) different that should get on screen. Unfortunately I can't trigger the breakpoint on the code or when the data is accessed so I really don't know how to see the effect of this change. But I do really believe it's a deliberate patch, not bit rot.

We might have found a BIOS v2.4 'beta' for what is worth my opinion in this case.

$ diff original.hex patched.hex
164,169c164,169
< 00000a30: 00cd 1502 2167 0a11 d27c 0118 00c3 1502  ....!g...|......
< 00000a40: 2184 0a11 d27c 010f 00c3 1502 0000 0000  !....|..........
< 00000a50: 0000 0000 e5ed ede2 00ee eadf f7e7 ece5  ................
< 00000a60: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 00e5 dfeb e300  ................
< 00000a70: edf4 e3f0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000  ................
< 00000a80: 0000 0000 00f5 e7f2 e600 df00 f0e3 dfea  ................
---
> 00000a30: 00cd 1502 2167 0a11 487c 0118 00cd 1502  ....!g..H|......
> 00000a40: 2184 0a11 d27c 010f 00c3 1502 00f7 edf3  !....|..........
> 00000a50: 00df f0e3 00df 00f5 edec e2e3 f0e4 f3ea  ................
> 00000a60: 00e6 f3ec f2e3 f000 eae3 f2fe f100 e5ed  ................
> 00000a70: 00f2 ed00 f2e6 e300 f0e3 dfea 00e6 f3ec  ................
> 00000a80: f2e7 ece5 00f5 e7f2 e600 df00 f0e3 dfea  ................

original.png (40.01 KB)
BIOS v2.4
original.png
patched.png (39.3 KB)
'patched' BIOS
patched.png

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:26 am
If I were a betting man I'd say that the difference is a bit of text or graphics being displayed on a slightly different position on screen.

Looks like we're setting up for an otir or outi there, and de looks likely to be the VDP screenmap.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:47 am
Yes, it's a message. I can't get the message itself and I still don't know in which situation is triggered but the code surely does write to the PNT (screenmap) - see attached capture - I run that part of code (starting at LABEL_A28) by itself in Emulicious.

edit - Oh, wait, it's a BIOS. Let me see if...

... no, it's not the software error message. :|
capture.png (33.76 KB)
Emulicious capture
capture.png

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:01 am
At this point, I would try to load a font in vram and cross my fingers that it actually displays the message itself... Assuming this is english and not japanese as well !
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:21 am
Haha, cool.

Well in any case I guess it just moves that message up by 2 lines and to the left by 5 characters! (from $48 - $d2)
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:30 am
armixer24 wrote
At this point, I would try to load a font in vram and cross my fingers that it actually displays the message itself... Assuming this is english and not japanese as well !


Tried that. I can't get anything meaningful. But it's surely printing text, and it's stored as a 'common' first byte for all the tiles in the whole string and then one byte for each character.

Is there some AI we can feed the encoded data to try to get the message? :)
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:31 am
willbritton wrote
Well in any case I guess it just moves that message up by 2 lines and to the left by 5 characters! (from $48 - $d2)


Also some data has changed, so the message is different.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:59 am
Found it :D
Message.png (30.21 KB)
'hidden' message
Message.png

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:15 pm
Also this is what the known BIOS instead shows: (not sure in which situation it should appear)
official release message.png (30.8 KB)
from the known BIOS
official release message.png

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:19 pm
Haha, "You are a wonderful hunt" - glad it _wasn't_ some corrupt data after all :D

Could be an older version of that BIOS maybe? The rest of that message is a bit strange, is that a type with the missing T on the second "HUN[T]"?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:24 pm
willbritton wrote
Could be an older version of that BIOS maybe?


I'm guessing this is really v2.4 'beta'. They probably have changed very few bytes, but we'll know for sure once we'll have the whole dump.
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:14 pm
That's the ending message from Safari Hunt
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:10 pm
thatawesomeguy wrote
That's the ending message from Safari Hunt


Interesting! So it means they edited that out in the BIOS v2.4 but Great Hierophant's copy still has that text. Or could instead be the other way around?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 4:38 pm
Interesting, what's the model and serial numbers?
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:40 am
I guess that they had to change it, because encouraging young kids to go out with real guns is probably a bad idea [citation needed].
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:55 am
Trying to exploit the EverDrive X7 emulation of 32 KiB of SRAM and the fact that it dumps it in a save file, I coded a ROM dumper to dump 128 KiB BIOSes in 4 segments.

So it means that to have your BIOS dumped you're supposed to dump segments 0 to 3 into 32 KiB save files in 4 different go and then reassemble them in order on a computer.

Pick the requested segment with UP/DOWN with the pad. Press 1/START to dump the segment. A message will confirm the copy to SRAM has completed.

Let me know if it works. This is for the newer EverDrives only, as the old ones only had 16 KiB SRAM (or at least I could never make mine generate 32 KiB files!)
EDX_128KB_BIOS_DUMP.sms.zip (3.31 KB)
EverDrive X 128 KiB BIOS dumper

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 10:22 am
Could you take photos of the machine open, and in particular of the BIOS chip ?
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:41 am
Last edited by Great Hierophant on Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
I have attached the extracted and reconstituted BIOS. There is only one other area of changes.

Here is a link to the photos of the board and the chips and the serial :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B6AWraszuzfnyVVPV8gTH3X_o1f0fC_q/view?usp=shari...

Who knew that Safari Hunt was originally intended as a WWI Training Simulator? :)
BIOS 2.4b.sms.zip (58.68 KB)

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:24 am
Attaching images. The BIOS chip seems oddly scuffed but it does have a QC OK sticker on it…

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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:09 pm
BIOS: "MPR 11459 W45"

I think the other boards have "MPR 11459-A"

Got to verify that...

The BIOS dump we have says the chip was marked "MPR-11459A W60"

so I suspect this is the 'zero' revision of this specific BIOS and what we already had was the 'first' (A) revision of BIOS v2.4 Hang On/Safari Hunt.
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 1:05 pm
Nothing particularly interesting about the serial number, it's about 80k into a batch of 230k. Looking at motherboard pictures of ones with Hang-On/Safari Hunt then they all seem to be MPR-11459 on VA2 boards from 1988 (which was probably the only year the US ones were manufactured)

Less than 30k PAL ones of those were manufactured in 1988, so MPR-11459A is probably more common in PAL countries (around 400k PAL Hang-On/Safari Hunt manufactured in total).
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:43 pm
How should we refer to this "new" BIOS? Should it be the v2.4 and the more commonly available BIOS renamed as v2.4 Rev A?
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:49 pm
I'm all for giving the previously known bios the A letter but I have no idea what's going to be the effect of that rename.

As for me, I'll refer to those two BIOSes as "Hang On & Safari Hunt" and "Hang On & Safari Hunt [A]" in the next SMS Test Suite versions, also because there's not much space on a line ;)
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:08 pm
I believe we have established it is earlier than the "known v2.4", the dump is good and it is not beta software, there is nothing to suggest my machine was not available to purchase by members of the general public. So when it comes to no-intro style naming conventions, it should be the "v2.4" and the more commonly available one should be "v2.4 rev A".

It is just one more thing to add to a complete official set.
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Post Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:11 pm
Bock will have the answer to that. It's happened before.

Incidentally, even though all US "Hang On & Safari Hunt" models seem to have been manufactured in 1988, ~20k SoA units were manufactured for Mexico in 1991, and ~10k units from 1992 ended up in Egypt of all places (I suspect manufactured for Mexico, but SoA quit supplying SMS to other North American markets after 1991). So if all 1988 models have MPR-11459 there might be ~30k SoA units with MPR-11459A.
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SMS Weird Test Results
Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:00 am
@BKK this is great info from all your German Tank Problem work. Do you it documented anywhere? It would be a great read. IMO anyway - other's mileage may vary. :)
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:16 am
I thought patches/revisions normally get assigned a new MPR number, and a new revision number in the header, even for one byte bug fixes.
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:55 pm
Great find. Will get to this later. FYI I never owned too many US SMS models (and only 2 with the Hang On / Safari Hunt) therefore I have no idea if this BIOS is rare or not, it might as well just be semi-common, I don't think many people have been dumping their BIOSes.

Would be nice if we can get more owner of US SMS with Hang On / Safari Hunt to test their own.
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:55 am
In case another previously unknown BIOS comes to the surface, here's the repository for the program to dump it using the EverDrive X

https://github.com/sverx/sms-BIOS-dumper
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 9:02 am
Bock wrote
I don't think many people have been dumping their BIOSes.

What's the best option to dump BIOSes if you don't have an Everdrive?
I was thinking of desoldering the chips then build a dumper writing to the mapper addresses, or write a piece of code and use controller port 2 for basic serial communication. Both sound a bit cumbersome for such a simple task.
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:00 am
I remember on this forum reading a topic about some serial communication already working, so probably from that code it's not that hard. You'd need some donor cartridge to put your program on anyway.
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:11 pm
Developing the serial interface isn't a problem, but I'll need to buy an adapter to USB on the PC side.
Finding a donor is not an issue neither, I have my own cartridge PCBs.
I was just hoping something would already exist rather than having to reinvent the wheel.
Some of the BIOSes were dumped in the mid 90s (maybe ghetto style).
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:07 am
ttl (5v)level serial to usb are damn cheap
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XF2SLQ1

using bitbanging on TH on the controller port should be possible keeping the baudrate low (300bps?)
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New Hang On / Safari Hunt BIOS variant (was: SMS Weird Test Results)
Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:54 am
@kamillibidan-san you can read about it here:

https://www.smspower.org/forums/18523-BitBangingAndCartridgeDumping

The plan is to eventually release a BIOS , as well as a mycard and cart-catcher versions to save modifying the console. Life's been busy since then and other projects have taken priority.
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:46 am
awesome, this is exactly what I had in mind!
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 am
@async that is such an awesome project, amazing, really enjoyed reading that!

Although I guess if you're going to make a mycard / cart catcher to bootstrap the dumper, wouldn't you be in a position to integrate the reading hardware (e.g. USB) onto that device and read via the system bus instead of bit-banging the controller port?
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New Hang On / Safari Hunt BIOS variant (was: SMS Weird Test Results)
Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:53 pm
@Willbritton thanks. Better get comfy and pour yourself a scotch.

There are many possible solutions to a problem. Each solution will draw its merits and criticism depending on who you ask.

One solution would be to use a SoC or FPGA with an ARM core and 4GB of DDR SDRAM running Ubuntu and an application programmed in C# or Java with internet connectivity to a update server using TLS1.3 to authenticate end users and devices for continuous deployment and continuous integration for fortnightly security patches and app enhancements in order to snoop the bus and connect via USB (although personally I would rather arbitrate the bus from the Z80 and communicate via serial over Bluetooth for wireless connectivity – but I digress).

The above solution has its place, for instance a kick-ass ICE or debugger on real hardware. But even then, there will those that criticise it and ask why not just use an accurate emulator for development. I’m not knocking anyone work or projects by the way.

For the task, the above solution, despite being uber-cool, is overly complex, costly and requires constant support. Sure, there are some merits to it, but it feels a bit silly to me to connect a slave device to a system that is 1,000x more powerful than the system itself.

The goals of the bitbang solution were to be cheap, readily available, and use the native abilities of the Master System itself. Just think, the same software could have been developed in 1987 and achieve 115,200 baud.

Anyway, getting back to the OT…part numbers are a big thing in the electronics world. Best to check and compare the MPR number and markings on a BIOS chip before going to the trouble of dumping it.

Sounds like we need to catalog BIOS images according to the MPR and chip markings now. :)
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:18 pm
Apologies for taking (or at least maintaining the course) off topic! Of course, point taken, was just shooting the breeze really. Assume you're being at least somewhat facetious about the SoC/FPGA thing, I guess I'd imagined something a little more pedestrian in that you're already using one external device (a $10 TTL to USB widget obvs not available back in the day), but if you're going to the trouble of getting a mycard made up you could integrate the $10 widget onto that device instead of having two things to plug in, but you're right that reading from the bus would then necessitate more interface logic so I suppose quickly it's looking like a different beast.

Anyway, hope my questions / ramblings were taken in the spirit in which I intended them!
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New Hang On / Safari Hunt BIOS variant (was: SMS Weird Test Results)
Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:58 pm
Yes there was a bit of humour in there. And I did get the spirit of your question. To put it in perspective: designing and building a clone SMS from scratch = totally my idea of a good time. :)
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Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:53 pm
@asynchronous this is exactly what I had in mind. But I take it your version isn't publicly available for now.

willbritton wrote
a $10 TTL to USB widget obvs not available back in the day

It would have been even cheaper BITD when PCs still had a physical serial port.
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:24 pm
Last edited by Bock on Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Would be good to split the off-topic discussion into another topic (EDIT: done, split topics).
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:45 pm
As I'm preparing for the next release of SMS Test Suite, regarding this topic, I wonder if putting an '[A]' after the "Hang On & Safari Hunt" is clear enough.

{0x9ec6,"Hang On & Safari Hunt"},     // MPR 11459    (first version "Hang On & Safari Hunt")
{0x8738,"Hang On & Safari Hunt [A]"}, // MPR 11459-A  (amended "Hang On & Safari Hunt", revision 'A')
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:29 pm
Quote
As I'm preparing for the next release of SMS Test Suite, regarding this topic, I wonder if putting an '[A]' after the "Hang On & Safari Hunt" is clear enough.

For 1st time i use the SMS test suite (0.33)and appeared a Hang On & Safari Hunt [A] in results. This mean that i have a SMS with BIOS variant?
I tested my 6 button MD controller original but the suit dont test all buttons.
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:29 pm
Segarule, where is your console from?
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 10:47 pm
Bock wrote
Segarule, where is your console from?

Brazil.
PS: The test was performed with an everdrive.
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