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View topic - SMS Street Fighter 2 ROM Hack

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  • Joined: 29 Mar 2012
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:45 am
Tom wrote
Dunno about 3, but I made a playthrough of Jang Pung 2 some time ago: http://youtube.com/watch?v=q0Ualg3uJ_A

Don't hold your breath, though. The game is barely playable. Recording that video was a pain.

2nd is barely playable, but 3 is the best fighting game in SMS IMHO
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:54 am
maxxoccupancy wrote
The characters would be drawn as background tiles except that hands, head, feet, and opponent-facing sprites are drawn individually as sprites in order to take advantage of the VDP's built-in collision detection.


Believe me when I tell you that there is absolutely no way anyone could do anything useful with the built-in collision detection unless you only have two sprites on screen in total.

As for your other suggestions: I appreciate your enthusiasm and creativity, but I don't think you have a very clear idea about how long different things take in terms of cpu cycles. Manipulating the video memory is costly, as is driving sampled sound via line interrupts. You'll hardly get some kind of game logic running in parallel.
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:43 am
I've used the collision flag on Cimmerian.
But that's a very specific game ; only 2 big metasprites (between 16/20 8x8 tiles each) and nothing more (no fireball or trowing things etc). So you can easily know who is attacking...
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Street Fighter II images for SMS
Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:54 pm
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:09 am
maxxoccupancy wrote
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.


Are the sprites considered completely done, or are they a work in progress?
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:07 pm
xfixium wrote
maxxoccupancy wrote
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.


Are the sprites considered completely done, or are they a work in progress?


I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:37 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.


Gotcha, here's my critique for the the far right sprite:

Face could use more shading. Some potential highlights can be added to remove flatness.

Arms, torso, and chest. Need more shading, too flat.

The dog tag chain, not defined enough.

Top of pants pocket on the left side, looks less like the source sprite, and original scale.

Boot on left side, vague design, doesn't look much like the source.

Also note, the legs are identical for the left 2 sprites. The far right legs are identical until closer to the belt. If you review the source sprites.

Hope that helps.
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:01 am
All right. I'll go over the SNES originals and see how much of that quality and style I can follow.

Some patterns you notice only from a distance. Others appear up close. I don't have original arcade drawings, so I'm having to guess at what some of their pixel art represents.

Doing my best.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:16 pm
Hi this is an amazing project

I never thought that this would be happening one day for SF2 in SMS..

Can I ask for a few suggestion is it is okay

1.) Make the execution motion of input for the special move slightly easier and forgiving in timing even they are still the same motion input.

2.) Is it possible that some special moves are aligned like in the game for example Ryu Tatsu/HuricaneKick slightly move up, Guile's Flash Kick slightly move up and Guile's Sonic boom slight move middle aligned of his body

3.) Modify or Replace some special moves if possible like this



    *If Ryu's Hadouken is blocked by his enemy, his enemy is pushed farther compared to other projectile that hits a blocked enemy.

    *Ken's Tatsu Replace by Shoryuken (to make him unique to Ken)

    *Ken's Hadoken is slightly slower than Ryu

    *Chun li projectile is at same speed as Ken

    *Guile can recover and move early after throwing a
    projectile(SonicBoom) compare to other character.

    *Sonic boom is slower than Chun li Projectile

    *Guile Flash Kick move more upward and have huge hitbox and small hurtbox

    *Balrog Special Move is invincible on startup animation and have high damage and doesn't push away his enemy far away from him other than knocking them down in front of him.

    *Sagat's Tiger Knee Replace by Tiger UpperCut

    *Sagat's Lower Tiger Shot Change to High Tiger Shot

    *If Sagat's Tiger Shot hit his opponent unblocked the Tiger Shot pushes the enemy farther compare to other projectiles in game.

    *If Bison's Scissor Kick hits his enemy, it causes his enemy to be in knockdown state and Bison lands in front of his enemy .

    *Anti-Air like special moves cannot be hit or invincible when it's moving up but can be attacked and hit when recovering or moving down


Thank you
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:31 pm
xfixium wrote
maxxoccupancy wrote

I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.


Gotcha, here's my critique for the the far right sprite:

Face could use more shading. Some potential highlights can be added to remove flatness.

Arms, torso, and chest. Need more shading, too flat.

The dog tag chain, not defined enough.

Top of pants pocket on the left side, looks less like the source sprite, and original scale.

Boot on left side, vague design, doesn't look much like the source.

Also note, the legs are identical for the left 2 sprites. The far right legs are identical until closer to the belt. If you review the source sprites.

Hope that helps.


I have been playing around with Pro Motion NG recently and found a couple of built in techniques that produce better results in less time. I was wondering if you happened to have a PMNG project file... or are we just working with the sprite sheets?

I'm pretty sure that I can just bring in the color palette and such manually, but that would take some time for each sheet.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:39 am
shakunetsu wrote
Hi this is an amazing project

I never thought that this would be happening one day for SF2 in SMS..

Can I ask for a few suggestion is it is okay

1.) Make the execution motion of input for the special move slightly easier and forgiving in timing even they are still the same motion input.

2.) Is it possible that some special moves are aligned like in the game for example Ryu Tatsu/HuricaneKick slightly move up, Guile's Flash Kick slightly move up and Guile's Sonic boom slight move middle aligned of his body

3.) Modify or Replace some special moves if possible like this



    *If Ryu's Hadouken is blocked by his enemy, his enemy is pushed farther compared to other projectile that hits a blocked enemy.

    *Ken's Tatsu Replace by Shoryuken (to make him unique to Ken)

    *Ken's Hadoken is slightly slower than Ryu

    *Chun li projectile is at same speed as Ken

    *Guile can recover and move early after throwing a
    projectile(SonicBoom) compare to other character.

    *Sonic boom is slower than Chun li Projectile

    *Guile Flash Kick move more upward and have huge hitbox and small hurtbox

    *Balrog Special Move is invincible on startup animation and have high damage and doesn't push away his enemy far away from him other than knocking them down in front of him.

    *Sagat's Tiger Knee Replace by Tiger UpperCut

    *Sagat's Lower Tiger Shot Change to High Tiger Shot

    *If Sagat's Tiger Shot hit his opponent unblocked the Tiger Shot pushes the enemy farther compare to other projectiles in game.

    *If Bison's Scissor Kick hits his enemy, it causes his enemy to be in knockdown state and Bison lands in front of his enemy .

    *Anti-Air like special moves cannot be hit or invincible when it's moving up but can be attacked and hit when recovering or moving down


Thank you


I can look at these in more detail at some point, but for now, I'm just focusing on the work in front of me. Some of your list I'm fairly certain are beyond me. The positional ones I can do things about most likely. I do like the idea of Shoryuken just for Ken, and replacing his Tatsu. The problem is actually writing the move behavior in code.

maxxoccupancy wrote

I have been playing around with Pro Motion NG recently and found a couple of built in techniques that produce better results in less time. I was wondering if you happened to have a PMNG project file... or are we just working with the sprite sheets?

I'm pretty sure that I can just bring in the color palette and such manually, but that would take some time for each sheet.


Well, I'm basically just using a sprite sheet. I have some pre-scaled and color converted versions of them. As I have shared previously on the test sheet, for example. If I were you, I would just download a SNES sprite sheet off spriter's resource, and give it a go. I believe they have the SMS sheets as well. Use them for size reference when scaling the SNES sprites down. Then color convert for SMS. Share your results, and we can go from there. Nothin' to it, but to do it.

Updates, I finalized Blanka's stage. I'm on the fence on if I want to use black or the sky color for the first two rows. The tree looks cut off when against the sky color, and I can't set the bg tiles for the top two first rows as they are locked in a static pattern for the entire width of the stage.

I got sick and lost productive days. Haven't been all that motivated since. I instead turned to things I could physically read. Started learning Z80 (and others) asm basics through Chibi Akumas first book, and his videos. Practicing coding, to get familiar with the Z80.

Blanka's sprites have been done, except for 7 damage frames. Hoping to wrap that up this weekend. A small vid of that. Till next time!

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sf2/videos/sms_sf2_vid_0004.mp4
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:18 am
That looks so good. It's so much better than anything I've seen on the SMS. I see what you mean by making shapes more round. That's really difficult while preserving details, but you've clearly pulled it off. That's some good work. I'm honored to get the opportunity to help out on this project.

I wanted to use Pro Motion NG because it has some cool techniques for changing groups of colors and getting more consistent results from one image to the next. I probably could use some other tricks to scale down the SNES sprite sheet images and get an even better result. What percentage are we reducing these by? From 90 pixels to 72, or about 20% on each dimension. That's pretty much like taking the whole image in as 5x5 tiles and scaling that all down to 4x4 tiles, then find colors by nearest using your palettes.

I've also been reading a lot of Z80, 68000, and SuperH optimization and coding techniques. It's interesting seeing how similar they are and how they face a lot of the same limitations. I so wish that Motorola had built the 68k like a SuperH-style RISC processor from the get go. All three are similar in their rich instruction sets, large, flat register files, addressing modes, and good code density.

Just as an experiment, I tried to use both GIMP and Pro Motion NG to scale the SNES images down and automatically demake the images using the included color palette. While this is fast enough to turn the entire sprite sheet into something that would fit on the SMS in about 10 minutes, it looks only marginally better than the TecToy images and not as good as hand redrawn characters. It might be worthwhile to perform a test on a sprite sheet, but I felt like these would need almost as much touch up work.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:30 am
As someone who has done pixel graphics for a living a couple of years ago, which included a lot of resizing tiles and sprites for various low resolutions as well as adapting color palettes for different limited systems, I can tell you that you won't get any adequate results without massive amounts of manual work. Sometimes it's actually better to use the rescaled asset only as a rough guideline and do the new asset from scratch.

Pro Motion is a wonderful tool, but it can't do magic, and no automated process will get you results anywhere near the quality xfixium is aiming for.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:57 am
xfixium wrote

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sf2/videos/sms_sf2_vid_0004.mp4

Well, it looks utterly fantastic! The black bar was not distracting to me.
One tiny thing, do the clouds have yellow in them? Why?
I thought about the colors of Blanka himself again, and i'm glad you kept him yellow, instead of green.

About Guile and his victory pose. He is holding a comb, right? I would keep that clear, by using light green and black, like on the snes. The picture below is your quick edit. The comb is skin colored there.



What i do when resizing, is change the palette of the original picture to what i need on the sms. And then do the resize. It might help a tiny bit.
When i'm done with my Sonic project then i can give resizing and retouching a try. But honestly, i probably won't be able to match your quality. And when i'm done with Sonic, you are probably done with sf2.


One more thing. I'm really a professional nitpicker now. Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:36 am
Quote
I got sick and lost productive days. Haven't been all that motivated since. I instead turned to things I could physically read. Started learning Z80 (and others) asm basics through Chibi Akumas first book, and his videos. Practicing coding, to get familiar with the Z80.


If you need a break from this project then take one, remember the time limit was one you self imposed, if it's causing pressure it's not a good thing, it'll let you return to it with fresh eyes at a later date.

I can't really say anything I haven't already said before, it looks amazing, the black bar is fine and the floor is looking much better than I imagined, It's not easy to mirror this floor in a way that keeps tiles down and looks good, you've done better than my attempts.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:41 am
slogra wrote
Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).
Without having a stance about that, let me inform you that the blue behaviour is believed to be a bug, or at least possibly unintentional.

But sure, as you can see, from a technical point of view, it's definitely possible to alter any palette routine to fit anyone's taste. How easy and how worth it those alterations would be is not for me to say.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:12 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

Just as an experiment, I tried to use both GIMP and Pro Motion NG to scale the SNES images down and automatically demake the images using the included color palette. While this is fast enough to turn the entire sprite sheet into something that would fit on the SMS in about 10 minutes, it looks only marginally better than the TecToy images and not as good as hand redrawn characters. It might be worthwhile to perform a test on a sprite sheet, but I felt like these would need almost as much touch up work.


The scaled sprites turned out nicely. I noticed the color conversion sorta nuked one of the pants colors however, where the light green would be used. The lighter red in the skin tone doesn't fit with the game up to this point. This is more of a consistency issue with me, than me thinking it doesn't look good, though. But overall not bad. It would be a good starting point for finalizing the sprite.

slogra wrote

One tiny thing, do the clouds have yellow in them? Why?


The yellow was once a lighter blue that I unfortunately had to get rid of. I tried either using the light blue or white to replace it, but both options made me sad lol So I used yellow for the least offensive placeholder. Just in case I could bring the original color back. Some previous screens still showed the original blue. Thanks for bringing it up, I should look at the palette again.

slogra wrote

About Guile and his victory pose. He is holding a comb, right? I would keep that clear, by using light green and black, like on the snes. The picture below is your quick edit. The comb is skin colored there.


While it wasn't meant as the finalized image, but more of a quick example, I'll post the proposed final one I did a bit ago. Not sure it'll meet what you said, but feel free to critique it.

slogra wrote

What i do when resizing, is change the palette of the original picture to what i need on the sms. And then do the resize. It might help a tiny bit.
When i'm done with my Sonic project then i can give resizing and retouching a try. But honestly, i probably won't be able to match your quality. And when i'm done with Sonic, you are probably done with sf2.


First, thanks for offering, I know your Sonic work is very detailed, and I truly enjoy seeing your updates. Second, I have tried doing color converting before and after scaling, but I don't recall if there was much difference. I usually rely on scaling more so than the color. That way I don't step out of bounds too much. Since one pixel can make or break the sprite.

slogra wrote

One more thing. I'm really a professional nitpicker now. Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).


Yeahh, it bothers me too. I'm not sure how the fading in and out is calculated color wise. It was something I was going to look at, at the very end. When everything was finalized.

Emrabt wrote

If you need a break from this project then take one, remember the time limit was one you self imposed, if it's causing pressure it's not a good thing, it'll let you return to it with fresh eyes at a later date.

I can't really say anything I haven't already said before, it looks amazing, the black bar is fine and the floor is looking much better than I imagined, It's not easy to mirror this floor in a way that keeps tiles down and looks good, you've done better than my attempts.


Thank you. It was, but I like to try and stick to what I say. I eventually pushed it out towards the end of April for everything. But it looks like with the amount of work left, I'll be lucky to finish by the end of April. I do have a bunch of vacation time I have to use before June, so I'll use that time optimally.

Also, thanks everyone on the top bars feedback. I'll keep 'em black.

Tom wrote

But sure, as you can see, from a technical point of view, it's definitely possible to alter any palette routine to fit anyone's taste. How easy and how worth it those alterations would be is not for me to say.


Thanks for the information and feedback. I would like to tinker with it a bit.
guile_stance_final.png (5.91 KB)
Proposed final version
guile_stance_final.png

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:32 pm
Yours is so much better. It took me about two hours per image to get those three as good as they are. Once I have adapted to your style, I may be able to crank out 1-2 frames per hour. I'm really beginning to appreciate the level of work that the old pixel artists put in, especially with the limited computing power that they had and the lack of Internet videos to help out.
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:45 am
xfixium wrote

I can look at these in more detail at some point, but for now, I'm just focusing on the work in front of me. Some of your list I'm fairly certain are beyond me. The positional ones I can do things about most likely. I do like the idea of Shoryuken just for Ken, and replacing his Tatsu. The problem is actually writing the move behavior in code.


Thank you for looking into it and what is possible.

The project is already great even without everything I mentioned.
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:32 am
I'm looking more closely at the pixel art style that you've used and have been looking at other games of the era that used really stark contrast to get a more rounded appearance.

I wonder if I might do better just taking your ideal image of Guile and just using that as the template for all of the images. It is pretty darned, good, after all.
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Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 12:03 pm
Just wanted to check in and see how things were going? Really enjoyed watching this develop.
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:27 am
I haven't been working on this, in favor of completing Golden Axe Tyris Edition hack. Once that is done, I will continue work. Nothing new to report atm.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:39 am
xfixium wrote
I haven't been working on this, in favor of completing Golden Axe Tyris Edition hack. Once that is done, I will continue work. Nothing new to report atm.


I can get back to working on this over the summer if I can get some direction. I just need to know if I should use your own ideal as a template for doing the other sprites on Guile.

I really enjoyed working on this and appreciate the honor of getting to contribute to this project.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:44 am
I suspect this project hit a snag with sagat's stage having so few tiles, I imagine it got a bit disheartening.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:39 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

I can get back to working on this over the summer if I can get some direction. I just need to know if I should use your own ideal as a template for doing the other sprites on Guile.


I would prefer that you keep the sprites like we had previously discussed. I'm not sure how much more direction I can offer. I'll convert a few more sprites however, as more of an example, if it helps.

Emrabt wrote
I suspect this project hit a snag with sagat's stage having so few tiles, I imagine it got a bit disheartening.


lol Nah, I'm working on TMNT now, I tend to ride waves of motivation. My apologies, I should've updated this thread to reflect that.

While Sagat's stage has only 70 tiles, I most likely can just insert the stage data at the end of the rom. Looks like there's a big juicy space to put the data. Then just point to that. Similar to what I did for Golden Axe. Even if I can't, I'll put something more like the original in there, at least.

I have a wip for the stage, but I have to reduce the size of the statue a bit more, tile count is 258 tiles currently (With mirroring). The max I can have is 192 tiles. I'll get there eventually. I have resized the statue 3 times previously, and optimized each time. Very time consuming.
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:35 pm
Okay, finally, an update on this project. I have finished the last 7 Blanka sprites, I have started to work on Balrogs frames.

Big news is, Slogra was kind enough to offer his time and talents to take on Guiles sprites, and what he's done so far has been amazing. So many thanks to Slogra.

I have updated the tmnt project as far as I want to at this point. Same goes with the Phantasy Star II project. This will be my main focus going forward. Hopefully this can be sprite complete in a few months or so.
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Post Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:18 pm
This project looks great! If there's any other art left to do that is unassigned, I'd love to pitch in!
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:17 am
Mondo wrote
This project looks great! If there's any other art left to do that is unassigned, I'd love to pitch in!


Any help is appreciated. That being said, I am a lil finicky on the quality of the work. I will reach out to you with a test sprite. I'm, currently working on Balrog, Slogra has Guile, Sagat is still left on the plate. He will probably will be the most difficult of what is left. Thanks for the offer.
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:00 pm
xfixium wrote


Any help is appreciated. That being said, I am a lil finicky on the quality of the work. I will reach out to you with a test sprite. I'm, currently working on Balrog, Slogra has Guile, Sagat is still left on the plate. He will probably will be the most difficult of what is left. Thanks for the offer.


Absolutely, I understand. I'm thick-skinned so don't worry about turning it down if it's not up to snuff. It'll be fun either way!
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:15 pm
I've just had your video on this pop up in my Youtube recommendations. The algorithm is certainly getting it out there.

You probably already know this but the yellow of Kens stage clashes a lot with the status bars.
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 4:06 pm
Emrabt wrote
I've just had your video on this pop up in my Youtube recommendations. The algorithm is certainly getting it out there.

You probably already know this but the yellow of Kens stage clashes a lot with the status bars.


I'm surprised about the amount of views tbh.

Yep, Ken's and Sagat's stages aren't complete. I also want to replace Ryu's clouds and moon as well. Ken's is close at least. I just need to create flooring, add another spectator on the boat, and adjust the palette. That's pretty minor though, compared to getting the fighters done.
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:09 pm
Doing a brilliant job buddy, keep going!



xfixium wrote
Emrabt wrote
I've just had your video on this pop up in my Youtube recommendations. The algorithm is certainly getting it out there.

You probably already know this but the yellow of Kens stage clashes a lot with the status bars.


I'm surprised about the amount of views tbh.

Yep, Ken's and Sagat's stages aren't complete. I also want to replace Ryu's clouds and moon as well. Ken's is close at least. I just need to create flooring, add another spectator on the boat, and adjust the palette. That's pretty minor though, compared to getting the fighters done.
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:26 pm
8BitBoy wrote
Doing a brilliant job buddy, keep going!


Thanks for the support!
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 12:32 pm
Wrapped up Balrog's sprites this weekend. Guile and Sagat remain.

Hats off to Mondo for offering their talents. They have done some excellent work on Sagat. As has Slogra, working on some more frames of animation for Guile.

Probably going to move on to getting Guile completed. I have no time frame set, but it would be amazing if this gets gets completed sooner than later.
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:14 pm
xfixium wrote
Wrapped up Balrog's sprites this weekend. Guile and Sagat remain.

Hats off to Mondo for offering their talents. They have done some excellent work on Sagat. As has Slogra, working on some more frames of animation for Guile.

Probably going to move on to getting Guile completed. I have no time frame set, but it would be amazing if this gets gets completed sooner than later.


Really looking forward to trying the finished product!! :)
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:40 pm
It's a a bit offtopic but here is a remake of the Guile song i made a long time ago, that you might enjoy while working on the hack :)
guile001d.m4a (634.18 KB)


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:05 pm
slogra wrote
It's a a bit offtopic but here is a remake of the Guile song i made a long time ago, that you might enjoy while working on the hack :)


lol thanks, I'm going to need it XD. Also, that remake is pretty awesome. That bass line slaps.
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:19 pm
Update, looks like we're closing in on the fighters being done. Mondo says there are only 7 more sprites to go for Sagat. Which is insanely quick. There's probably a dozenish sprites left for Guile. Slogra is doing great there, as well. I have looked into expanding the tilesets further than their limits. Up to a maximum of 192 tiles, for the ones I want to target, at least. That lead me to redo Ryu's stage. Ken's stage was already 190 tiles, so that bought me 2 additional tiles XD, but I'll take what I can get. I may be able to expand Guile's stage, as long as no important data is there. I guess I could always plop it at the end of the ROM. That'd be a pain, but Sagat's stage will have to be done the same way.

For giggles, I made a starter demo for a homebrew version of SFII, using Devkit SMS. I used some of the stage graphics from that for this hack. I like the results, for the most part. Comparison pic attached.

Also a test vid of that homebrew is here (I have sprite limits turned off, via the Dega emulator, I didn't see a similar option in Emulicious, which is my preference. So sorry if the aspect ratio seems off):

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sfii/video/sfii_0001.mp4
sms_sf2_0100.png (33.74 KB)
New version, vs old
sms_sf2_0100.png

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:06 pm
xfixium wrote


For giggles, I made a starter demo for a homebrew version of SFII, using Devkit SMS. I used some of the stage graphics from that for this hack. I like the results, for the most part. Comparison pic attached.

Also a test vid of that homebrew is here (I have sprite limits turned off, via the Dega emulator, I didn't see a similar option in Emulicious, which is my preference. So sorry if the aspect ratio seems off):

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sfii/video/sfii_0001.mp4

interesting;
I'm guessing in this demo both fighters are sprites?
Would you be having every fighter use one palette, like a Jang Pung 3? How would duplicate character fights work?

I'd love to see a completely original fighting game come out of this at some point.
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:35 pm
Emrabt wrote

interesting;
I'm guessing in this demo both fighters are sprites?
Would you be having every fighter use one palette, like a Jang Pung 3? How would duplicate character fights work?

I'd love to see a completely original fighting game come out of this at some point.


Not sure what I'm going to do with it at this point. I originally wanted to emulate something similar to the N*S vid that was posted in this thread when I first started this hack. "N*s you can" vid.

The video displayed two sprites, and a lot of flicker. But it definitely looked impressive, game play wise. The way the floor was scrolled was very cool. From what I remember, it's taking advantage of some mapper I never heard of, the MMMC5. Not sure where that project ended up, in the long run. I don't even know where the original ROM went.

That being said, I think the SMS can do something similar. So I went and brought in most of the tiles I wanted for the BG. I came up a little short on that (Missing the temple), but I didn't really optimize the tiles fully. In the demo's current state, only Ryu and Ken could be playable with the desired color range. For a legit full game, that would require some color sacrifices. I made a mock up of the palette usage (Attached).

This brought me to another line of thinking. Offset BG tile merging. Using the same kind of tile merging that the Tectoy SFII is using, but offset the merging based on fighter position, so that it is pixel perfect, not snapped to the BG grid. I wonder if this has been done already? If not, I'd like to try a proof of concept one day. It would seemingly offer many benefits. Reduced flicker, access to BG or Sprite palettes, and non-grid movement.

I however, am no expert in the possibility of having it be performance acceptable.
sf_ii_mock_up_0001.png (26.83 KB)
Color palette test mock up
sf_ii_mock_up_0001.png

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:38 pm
xfixium wrote


Not sure what I'm going to do with it at this point. I originally wanted to emulate something similar to the N*S vid that was posted in this thread when I first started this hack. "N*s you can" vid.

The video displayed two sprites, and a lot of flicker. But it definitely looked impressive, game play wise. The way the floor was scrolled was very cool. From what I remember, it's taking advantage of some mapper I never heard of, the MMMC5.


MMC5, the mapper that allows all kinds of split screen effects, even vertical splits.


Quote
This brought me to another line of thinking. Offset BG tile merging. Using the same kind of tile merging that the Tectoy SFII is using, but offset the merging based on fighter position, so that it is pixel perfect, not snapped to the BG grid. I wonder if this has been done already? If not, I'd like to try a proof of concept one day. It would seemingly offer many benefits. Reduced flicker, access to BG or Sprite palettes, and non-grid movement.


I'm certainly no expert but I'm not sure tile merging can be used with raster line scroll tricks.

That mock-up is beautiful.Other than Guile and Blanka you could probably get the other characters looking okay with that palette.

Quote
For a legit full game, that would require some color sacrifices. I made a mock up of the palette usage (Attached).


Hiding the limitations are why I think an original fighter / SFII clone with original characters might be better.
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 2:06 am
xfixium wrote
In the demo's current state, only Ryu and Ken could be playable with the desired color range. For a legit full game, that would require some color sacrifices. I made a mock up of the palette usage (Attached).


I was thinking how it'd work, would you need to make all the characters work with one single 16 colour palette so their colour indices on the ROM are always correct? Or could you set the sprite palette per-fight based on which characters have been chosen, and correct one of the character's sprite's colour indices if needed (although I guess that might be resource intensive?)? Apologies if this is a dumb question!

The mock-up does look incredible though, great work.
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Post Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 4:58 am
Mondo wrote

I was thinking how it'd work, would you need to make all the characters work with one single 16 colour palette so their colour indices on the ROM are always correct? Or could you set the sprite palette per-fight based on which characters have been chosen, and correct one of the character's sprite's colour indices if needed (although I guess that might be resource intensive?)? Apologies if this is a dumb question!

The mock-up does look incredible though, great work.


It's not a dumb question. Each have their pros and cons. I probably would do it the resource intensive way. The goal being to get the best color combinations possible.

But really it's a nonissue, as I only plan to write a demo specifically geared towards Ryu and Ken. Probably not going to attempt a full game. Not even sure I'll write a demo tbh, 😆 I have no experience writing fighting game logic.

And another update, I believe Ken's stage is done. It's not the greatest stage I've done, but it'll do. That leaves just Sagat's stage.
sms_sf2_0101.png (19.7 KB)
Proposed final draft on Ken's stage
sms_sf2_0101.png

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:50 pm
xfixium wrote

And another update, I believe Ken's stage is done. It's not the greatest stage I've done, but it'll do. That leaves just Sagat's stage.


I know it's not as detailed as you wanted and you needed to cut back, but honestly look at how it started out it's a million time better.

Did you keep the boat on the right, I think the other console versions (The 16 bits) all simplified that by removing the..... command.... box bit.... the bridge box?

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 6:28 pm
Emrabt wrote

I know it's not as detailed as you wanted and you needed to cut back, but honestly look at how it started out it's a million time better.

Did you keep the boat on the right, I think the other console versions (The 16 bits) all simplified that by removing the..... command.... box bit.... the bridge box?


I see it in the SNES version? Unfortunately, that part helps balance out the scene in the SMS version. I would LOVE to get rid of it, but then it looks even more empty on that side. Especially since the SMS version is so much wider than any other version of the stage. I would get back a juicy 9 tiles out of that deal. Enough for another boat spectator.

I'll attach it, maybe someone else can make it look decent. Note, the last 2 right side columns of the stage do not get displayed in game.
Ken Stage.png (12.35 KB)
Current proposed Ken Stage Champion Edition
Ken Stage.png

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 10:58 am
xfixium wrote


I see it in the SNES version? Unfortunately, that part helps balance out the scene in the SMS version. I would LOVE to get rid of it, but then it looks even more empty on that side. Especially since the SMS version is so much wider than any other version of the stage. I would get back a juicy 9 tiles out of that deal. Enough for another boat spectator.

I'll attach it, maybe someone else can make it look decent. Note, the last 2 right side columns of the stage do not get displayed in game.


Yeah I can see the problem with it looking even more bare without it.
There's nothing that immediately jumps out that you can fix it quickly with.

I can think of a solution but it's rather tedious, move everything along a few blocks and build up the back of the steamer, is this worth the 9 or so tiles it'll save?. In my mock up I've also moved them a column closer together, so nothing is lost in the cut off (I saved the rectangle).


And yes you are right it's in the SNES version, I must have been thinking of the car stage or something.
Street Fighter × All Capcom.png (255.17 KB)
According to the internet, "Street Fighter × All Capcom" shows the back of the Ship
Street Fighter × All Capcom.png
testkensms.png (13.38 KB)
testkensms.png

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:20 pm
Emrabt wrote

Yeah I can see the problem with it looking even more bare without it.
There's nothing that immediately jumps out that you can fix it quickly with.

I can think of a solution but it's rather tedious, move everything along a few blocks and build up the back of the steamer, is this worth the 9 or so tiles it'll save?. In my mock up I've also moved them a column closer together, so nothing is lost in the cut off (I saved the rectangle).


And yes you are right it's in the SNES version, I must have been thinking of the car stage or something.


I took some of what you suggested. It seemed like I miscalculated the tiles saved. So I decided to cut down boaty mcboatface's front a bit, in combination of moving the boat to the right two tiles. In the end I was able to keep what I deemed important, and bring another person onto the boat. I think the results makes me less sad now.

I also setup the World Warrior project fully, so it's up to date. Made some changes to some stages, and fine tuned animation offsets. The biggest problems from Balrog and Guile.

Edit: Also, I could use some feedback on Ryu's WW stage, vs what I mocked up previously. I want to say it's too orangey? Not sure though. The mock up used black for the temple, and it's more one to one in the actual WW version.

World Warrior vid as well:
https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sf2/videos/sms_sf2_vid_0005.mp4
Ken Stage.png (13.17 KB)
Final version?
Ken Stage.png
Balrog Stage.png (17.1 KB)
Added marquee lights, adjusted palette
Balrog Stage.png
sms_sf2_0102.png (67.56 KB)
Ryu Hyper vs World Warrior
sms_sf2_0102.png

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Post Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:46 pm
Those stages look incredible. Too bad about the hull n ken's stage, but it's all about compromises.

The Ryu stage looks really great but i agree that house in the background looks a bit bright. So yeah, i would make that house a shade darker.
I'm not sure what the restrictions are. Are you free to use any 9 colors, or is there overlap with ryu himself?

I wondered if the different versions of the stages only use a palette change, or do they have different tiles as well?
If they use different tiles then perhaps remove the moon from the classic stage.

No worries if you can't change it, it looks amazing already.
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:58 pm
Oh wait, there are 10 colors.

I would keep it strait forward and keep the palette close to the original.

This is a quick conversion of the stage using 10 colors.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:20 am
You can increase the contrast of the floor a bit are throw some black in it as well.

Personally i'm not a fan of the green-brown color (aaaa55), and would change it to ffaa00.

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