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Enough is enough. I want to learn programming. I guess i'll start with C++ (can I
start with ASM? doubtful but just in case...). But I need advice from people that are
" in the know ". What I need to know is : is those " do it your self in 21 days bundle
(books, cd's & compilers) any good? If not, what features do I need to check in the
more conventional programming books? Got a particular book that you use/like?
Any general advice for someone that learned basic 20 years ago (and doesn't
remember too much)? Any web sites you know that has good " beginners " info?

Any help WILL be appreciated...

Thank you.

Want SC-3000 "exclusive" games? If so click here.... (hehe)

Quote

> Enough is enough. I want to learn programming. I guess i'll start with C++ (can I
> start with ASM? doubtful but just in case...).

I strongly suggest to start with something else than C++ or an ASM in general.
Do something like Basic, Pascal or C.

Quote

> But I need advice from people that are " in the know ". What I need to know is :
> is those " do it your self in 21 days bundle (books, cd's & compilers) any good?

The books may be good but the principle itself isn't good as you simply can't
learn programming in 21 days. But as a start any book or document you can
read could be useful.

Quote

> If not, what features do I need to check in the
> more conventional programming books? Got a particular book that you use/like?
> Any general advice for someone that learned basic 20 years ago (and doesn't
> remember too much)?

Start with very simply projects. And never forget to actually program and advance
in your knowledge, instead of saying "I will do that blablah" and never do it. Some
people acting this way can spend years "programming" without any improvement
on their side. So it is also important not to only talk and keep time for programming :)

Quote

> Want SC-3000 "exclusive" games? If so click here.... (hehe)

Some more time, and I promise your docs will be there ^_^
Gotta take a day and take all the manuals... you prefers French or English version? :)

I've always thought the "Programming C" or "Programming C++" books by Deitel and Deitel were very good.

Eric Quinn

Quote

> I've always thought the "Programming C" or "Programming C++" books by Deitel and Deitel were very good.

> Eric Quinn

I agree.. Those are the books that college's use out here. I have two different editions.. one on C and the other on C++. Both really great books.

ATani

Like Eric said, it would be better to start with BASIC or C. C++ involves new concepts and techniques from plain C and ASM isn't really hard to learn but it's difficult to code with and it's no fun at first. I personally suggest that you start out with BASIC because it's not as code extensive as C and you can fool around with graphics and sound stuff more easily than in C. In terms of Books, it's hard to say. You almost need to buy many books because one book will concentrate on one thing and another will concentrate on something else. I've done a lot of programming in Microsoft Quick Basic and Visual Basic. So, if you need help in getting setup and started let me know.

Chris :o)

I'm sorry, I miss read your post. Well, if you say that you've learned Basic 20 years ago then adjusting from classic Basic to modern Basic will be a sinch. If you want, E-mail you a copy of Quick Basic. It's pretty old (since 1987) but it's easy to use, debug, and it has a really good help file.

Chris :o)

Zoop makes the best point of all:
Reading is valuable, but if you really want to learn, just code. Read a chapter, do the exercises at the end, fool around with what you've learn, really get a feel for it before you read on.

try other people's source code and mess around with it (when you have -some- idea what to do with it).

Languages: I'd say skip VB and go for C, it's really the language to know there days, it's very versitile, and you can write for nearly any system in C (Visual Basic is pretty proprietary).

I don't know from books, I initially learned most of my C from reading a 30 page appendix at the end of a 'how to write macintosh software' book I got for free (I've never written any macintosh software, by the way), and from there learned most of the rest of what I know just reading source code, experimenting, reading newsgroups, web pages, etc. It's probably not the best way to learn, but it's not the worst way either.

Of course, one thing about C is that interfaces to system (or OS) specific features are not part of the C language, rather they are available as add-on libraries. The C language and it's standard libraries pretty much assume only assume a system has some sort of file system, a memory model, and 'input and output' (usual in from keyboard and out to a screen of text, but there's no guarantee that it has to be). The reason for such draconian minimum standards is that C can be used not only to program mainframes, desktop computers, and even games systems, but even such small platforms as embedded microcontrollers that truly may have no screens, keyboards, storage devices, or even operating systems in them.

So, in addition to learning the language, you need to learn the extensions of the environment your programming for.

Unfortunately, the windows API is a beast unto itself, not something you want to learn until after you have a fair understanding of C under your belt. You can stick with DOS stuff for a while, and use the Allegro Library so you can learn C and quickly get into some graphics and sound programming. Even then, though, I'd get comfortable with C using only ANSI C and standard libraries, which means in the windows environment you'll only be able to write console applications, or text based dos programs. Just for a while, trust me, it's better to learn to really get the logic down before you go slinging pixels across the screen with cheesy MIDI songs in the background.

Not that it's how I learned, but trust me.

P.S.: If you really wanted to go with C++ instead, I'd say go for it, but be warned that most C++ books I've come across assume some functional C knowledge as a prerequisite, even if they don't come out and say it.
P.P.S: Just to get this out of the way, repeat to yourself fifteen or a hundred times:
"main() returns int. main() does not return void."
(you don't have to vocalize the parentheses).

Author	Message
Le hamster croustillant Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 352 Location: Canada	May I ask you help guys? Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 2:36 am
	Enough is enough. I want to learn programming. I guess i'll start with C++ (can I start with ASM? doubtful but just in case...). But I need advice from people that are " in the know ". What I need to know is : is those " do it your self in 21 days bundle (books, cd's & compilers) any good? If not, what features do I need to check in the more conventional programming books? Got a particular book that you use/like? Any general advice for someone that learned basic 20 years ago (and doesn't remember too much)? Any web sites you know that has good " beginners " info? Any help WILL be appreciated... Thank you. Want SC-3000 "exclusive" games? If so click here.... (hehe)

Zoop Joined: 24 Jun 1999 Posts: 1732 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 6:13 am
	Quote > Enough is enough. I want to learn programming. I guess i'll start with C++ (can I > start with ASM? doubtful but just in case...). I strongly suggest to start with something else than C++ or an ASM in general. Do something like Basic, Pascal or C. Quote > But I need advice from people that are " in the know ". What I need to know is : > is those " do it your self in 21 days bundle (books, cd's & compilers) any good? The books may be good but the principle itself isn't good as you simply can't learn programming in 21 days. But as a start any book or document you can read could be useful. Quote > If not, what features do I need to check in the > more conventional programming books? Got a particular book that you use/like? > Any general advice for someone that learned basic 20 years ago (and doesn't > remember too much)? Start with very simply projects. And never forget to actually program and advance in your knowledge, instead of saying "I will do that blablah" and never do it. Some people acting this way can spend years "programming" without any improvement on their side. So it is also important not to only talk and keep time for programming :) Quote > Want SC-3000 "exclusive" games? If so click here.... (hehe) Some more time, and I promise your docs will be there ^_^ Gotta take a day and take all the manuals... you prefers French or English version? :)

Eric R. Quinn Joined: 18 Sep 1999 Posts: 498 Location: Portland, Oregon USA	Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 3:43 pm
	I've always thought the "Programming C" or "Programming C++" books by Deitel and Deitel were very good. Eric Quinn

ATani Guest	Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 4:30 pm
ATani Guest	Quote > I've always thought the "Programming C" or "Programming C++" books by Deitel and Deitel were very good. > Eric Quinn I agree.. Those are the books that college's use out here. I have two different editions.. one on C and the other on C++. Both really great books. ATani

Consolemu Guest	Help on Programming Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 8:12 pm
Consolemu Guest	Like Eric said, it would be better to start with BASIC or C. C++ involves new concepts and techniques from plain C and ASM isn't really hard to learn but it's difficult to code with and it's no fun at first. I personally suggest that you start out with BASIC because it's not as code extensive as C and you can fool around with graphics and sound stuff more easily than in C. In terms of Books, it's hard to say. You almost need to buy many books because one book will concentrate on one thing and another will concentrate on something else. I've done a lot of programming in Microsoft Quick Basic and Visual Basic. So, if you need help in getting setup and started let me know. Chris :o)

Consolemu Guest	Re: Help on Programming Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 8:16 pm
Consolemu Guest	I'm sorry, I miss read your post. Well, if you say that you've learned Basic 20 years ago then adjusting from classic Basic to modern Basic will be a sinch. If you want, E-mail you a copy of Quick Basic. It's pretty old (since 1987) but it's easy to use, debug, and it has a really good help file. Chris :o)

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2000 9:38 pm
	Zoop makes the best point of all: Reading is valuable, but if you really want to learn, just code. Read a chapter, do the exercises at the end, fool around with what you've learn, really get a feel for it before you read on. try other people's source code and mess around with it (when you have -some- idea what to do with it). Languages: I'd say skip VB and go for C, it's really the language to know there days, it's very versitile, and you can write for nearly any system in C (Visual Basic is pretty proprietary). I don't know from books, I initially learned most of my C from reading a 30 page appendix at the end of a 'how to write macintosh software' book I got for free (I've never written any macintosh software, by the way), and from there learned most of the rest of what I know just reading source code, experimenting, reading newsgroups, web pages, etc. It's probably not the best way to learn, but it's not the worst way either. Of course, one thing about C is that interfaces to system (or OS) specific features are not part of the C language, rather they are available as add-on libraries. The C language and it's standard libraries pretty much assume only assume a system has some sort of file system, a memory model, and 'input and output' (usual in from keyboard and out to a screen of text, but there's no guarantee that it has to be). The reason for such draconian minimum standards is that C can be used not only to program mainframes, desktop computers, and even games systems, but even such small platforms as embedded microcontrollers that truly may have no screens, keyboards, storage devices, or even operating systems in them. So, in addition to learning the language, you need to learn the extensions of the environment your programming for. Unfortunately, the windows API is a beast unto itself, not something you want to learn until after you have a fair understanding of C under your belt. You can stick with DOS stuff for a while, and use the Allegro Library so you can learn C and quickly get into some graphics and sound programming. Even then, though, I'd get comfortable with C using only ANSI C and standard libraries, which means in the windows environment you'll only be able to write console applications, or text based dos programs. Just for a while, trust me, it's better to learn to really get the logic down before you go slinging pixels across the screen with cheesy MIDI songs in the background. Not that it's how I learned, but trust me. P.S.: If you really wanted to go with C++ instead, I'd say go for it, but be warned that most C++ books I've come across assume some functional C knowledge as a prerequisite, even if they don't come out and say it. P.P.S: Just to get this out of the way, repeat to yourself fifteen or a hundred times: "main() returns int. main() does not return void." (you don't have to vocalize the parentheses).

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