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Chris
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My views on programming
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 7:27 am
Do the people who develop games for the newer systems such as Playstation, Ni****do 64 and
Dreamcast still have to write this elaborate tools so they can work on the project without having to
deal with binary? Do these newer systems and hardware still work though encoded binary. If
so this sucks. Everything sucks. You can't do shit with these systems. Either you or your company
has to purchase a development kit from SONY, Ni****do or whoever or you have to build your
own develpment kit. This is rediculous. This is bullshit. Really, this whole emulation development
idea is bullshit. Why in the hell are we even doing this? I mean you got Eric here working
damn hard to play a small piece of music on an old ass system that nobody even plays anymore.
All for what? It's not like anyone cares. What are we trying to achieve here? What is the
purpose of doing game development for old, encrypted video game systems? I don't even
know why I'm here. I know that there's a place in my head that's just crying to learn new things
and I think all this emulation still is very interesting but it's not like I'm ever going to use
this stuff and even if I did use it for something it's not like anybody would care. I don't know
what to believe in anymore. I'm all confused in the head right now.

Chris :o(
 
  • Joined: 12 Jul 1999
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 10:39 am
Quote
>This is rediculous. This is bullshit. Really, this whole emulation development
> idea is bullshit. Why in the hell are we even doing this? I mean you got Eric here working
> damn hard to play a small piece of music on an old ass system that nobody even plays anymore.
> All for what? It's not like anyone cares.

I care. I am a musician. I am always on the lookout for a new
way of writing music on computer systems.

Quote
>What are we trying to achieve here?

The SMS is still a goodish system, and probably an ideal system to program a game on for your first try. I'd give it a shot, if it weren't my final year of High School.

Quote
>What is the purpose of doing game development for old, encrypted video game systems?

To keep them alive. Without people like us, the SMS would probably shrivel up and die without anybody ever caring.

Quote
>I don't even know why I'm here. I know that there's a place in my head that's just crying to learn new things
> and I think all this emulation still is very interesting but it's not like I'm ever going to use
> this stuff and even if I did use it for something it's not like anybody would care. I don't know
> what to believe in anymore. I'm all confused in the head right now.

If you think *you* are confused in the head right now, then I'll willingly trade lives with you.
Quote
> Chris :o(

-unfnknblvbl
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Nyef
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 3:19 pm
Quote
> Do the people who develop games for the newer systems such as Playstation, Nintendo 64 and
> Dreamcast still have to write this elaborate tools so they can work on the project without having to
> deal with binary? Do these newer systems and hardware still work though encoded binary. If

No, and yes. The elaborate tools are available from SONY, and all computers these days work with
encoded binary.

Be grateful, at least modern systems are programmed in C, and not ASM.

Quote
> so this sucks. Everything sucks. You can't do shit with these systems. Either you or your company
> has to purchase a development kit from SONY, Nintendo or whoever or you have to build your
> own develpment kit. This is rediculous. This is bullshit. Really, this whole emulation development
> idea is bullshit. Why in the hell are we even doing this? I mean you got Eric here working

It's not bullshit. It is an excersize of skill and talent, and as such cannot be entirely without merit.

And as to the question of why, eveyone must find their own answer. I have mine.

Quote
> damn hard to play a small piece of music on an old ass system that nobody even plays anymore.

Objection. Mine is in place on the shelf right next to the SegaCD, mainly because I don't have the
hookups to run both of them simultaneously (with Phantasy Star in the SMS and Lunar in the SCD
no less). :-)

Quote
> All for what? It's not like anyone cares. What are we trying to achieve here? What is the
> purpose of doing game development for old, encrypted video game systems? I don't even

At least some of us care, we wouldn't be here otherwise.

And the SMS is not encrypted (perhaps you meant to use a different word here?).

Quote
> know why I'm here. I know that there's a place in my head that's just crying to learn new things

It's too bad that there's no evidence of a place in your head that's just screaming for you to sit down
and work on one project until it is substantially complete.

Quote
> and I think all this emulation still is very interesting but it's not like I'm ever going to use
> this stuff and even if I did use it for something it's not like anybody would care. I don't know

"This stuff" has come in very handy at work, thank you very much. 6502 and Z80 ASM are alive and
well in this day and age, cycle-counted ASM code is still nessecary for some things, and you never
know what obscure bit of arcane trivia will be useful next.

Quote
> what to believe in anymore. I'm all confused in the head right now.

You aren't the only one. Some of us have at least somehting we can believe in (in my case, I can
believe in my programming skill. I just wish I had the art skill to go with it, then I would have very little
trouble -- apart from time -- writing my own games).

Quote
> Chris :o(

--Nyef
 
Eric
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 5:01 pm
Quote
> Do the people who develop games for the newer systems such as Playstation, Nintendo 64 and
> Dreamcast still have to write this elaborate tools so they can work on the project without having to
> deal with binary?

To some degree, yes. But, these are computer systems. dealing with binary is inevitable.

Quote
> Do these newer systems and hardware still work though encoded binary. If
> so this sucks. Everything sucks. You can't do shit with these systems. Either you or your company
> has to purchase a development kit from SONY, Ni****do or whoever or you have to build your
> own develpment kit. This is rediculous.

Please forgive me. I really hate when people do this, but I must say something here. I've noticed in previous posts that you have made this error, so I assume it's not a typo.

The correct spelling is "ridiculous" not "rediculous." Again, forgive me, but I think it's better that you know.

Quote
> This is bullshit. Really, this whole emulation development idea is bullshit. Why in the hell are we even doing this?

Well, there's really two issues here: emulator development and console software development. Currently, console software development is intimately related to emulator development since there's no way for the common person to execute programs on the actual consoles. They can only hope to run them on the console emulators.

I think the benefits of emulator development are pretty clear: being able to play old games on modern computer systems.

As far as console software development (which is what this web-site is devoted to, not emulator development), I believe you have a point. Practically speaking there's no point in writing software for long-dead systems. However, I simply enjoy writing programs. I enjoy that I can say, "Do you see that console there? I know how to program it." That's all.

Quote
> I mean you got Eric here working
> damn hard to play a small piece of music on an old ass system that nobody even plays anymore.
> All for what? It's not like anyone cares. What are we trying to achieve here? What is the
> purpose of doing game development for old, encrypted video game systems?

Here is my view: The SMS is a perfect system for one person to develop software for.

I'm hoping that (through this message-board) a simple library of standard SMS functions will be jointly developed. Once the library is stablized, individual programmers can go off and program their own games, overseeing all aspects of its design.

So, back to your question, the purpose, I guess, is simply to have fun with the SMS/GG. Playing games is fine, but for me, programming them can be just as fun.

Quote
> I don't even
> know why I'm here. I know that there's a place in my head that's just crying to learn new things
> and I think all this emulation still is very interesting but it's not like I'm ever going to use
> this stuff and even if I did use it for something it's not like anybody would care.

I think you're being a little hasty here. There's a lot of value to the things you have learned so far. Certainly, knowing C, and assembly language is valuable. Specific knowledge of the SMS/GG hardware isn't going to be of much use, that's true, but the concepts of it's hardware design are valuable.

Quote
> I don't know
> what to believe in anymore. I'm all confused in the head right now.

I'm afraid I can't help you here... :)

Have fun.

Eric
 
ziggy880
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 5:31 pm
I personally started coding on older systems because they were limited
and it just seemed to me that the limitations forced coders to do more so
to keep your attention back when the games only had 3 or 15 colors per sprite
also the gameboy is still alive and kicking and is a profitable market if thats
what you are looking for it uses a z80-like processor with a few changes.
 
The Sky Baby
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 5:48 pm
Quote
> Do the people who develop games for the newer systems such as Playstation, Nintendo 64 and
> Dreamcast still have to write this elaborate tools so they can work on the project without having to
> deal with binary? Do these newer systems and hardware still work though encoded binary.

Using tools is so much easier anyway - and after a while the tools are written so you can reuse the tools on another project an dthus save time.


Quote
> If so this sucks. Everything sucks. You can't do shit with these systems. Either you or your company
> has to purchase a development kit from SONY, Ni****do or whoever or you have to build your
> own develpment kit. This is rediculous.

you have to buy a Dev kit so you dont get loads of cheep useless software out on the market - admitidly this is a bad thing as the PC is the only system people can now code and release stuph on and get it published

Quote
> This is bullshit. Really, this whole emulation development
> idea is bullshit. Why in the hell are we even doing this? I mean you got Eric here working
> damn hard to play a small piece of music on an old ass system that nobody even plays anymore.

I still have my SMS in full working order and do play it as with my Genesis and even my Spectrum +2 - I play them cause I remember the good old days when games actually were not just flashing graphics and you did not need to update you machine every week just to play the latest games

Quote
> All for what? It's not like anyone cares.

I care

Quote
> What are we trying to achieve here? What is the
> purpose of doing game development for old, encrypted video game systems? I don't even
> know why I'm here. I know that there's a place in my head that's just crying to learn new things
> and I think all this emulation still is very interesting but it's not like I'm ever going to use
> this stuff and even if I did use it for something it's not like anybody would care. I don't know
> what to believe in anymore. I'm all confused in the head right now.

In all if I knew how to code ASM I would try to convert some of my stuph to the SMS but I don't so I cant..

But to play something new would be fun as we could see lots of new ideas coming through - ok so all we have now is that sound demo but we are still in the very early stages at the moment - just wait a few months and we might have something better..
 
Chris
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Good Point
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 8:13 pm
Quote
> I personally started coding on older systems because they were limited
> and it just seemed to me that the limitations forced coders to do more so
> to keep your attention back when the games only had 3 or 15 colors per sprite
> also the gameboy is still alive and kicking and is a profitable market if thats
> what you are looking for it uses a z80-like processor with a few changes.

You're very right on that one. People still pay $70 dollars to play Mario
Bros. on their red colored color gameboy. Not to mention all the little
peripherials such as the gameboy printer and 2 player cable connector.

Chris :o)
 
Chris
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Alright, hold on...
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 8:18 pm
This is RIDICULOUS!

Yes! I thought I was spelling it wrong. At least I tried to sound it out before I wrote
redickulus, you know what I mean? That would have really looked bad :o)

Chris
 
Chris
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In the future
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 8:50 pm
I guess you're right. This stuff will probably come in handy some day. About 2 years ago after
downloading Snes9x, Nesticle, and Massage, I said to myself, "I can do this. If they can do
it I can do it." So I got into Visual Basic and Qbasic and that was a great stepping stone.
Qbasic tought me a lot about plotting pixel positions to draw lines, figures, boxes, etc.
Not to mention the terrible capabilities of the internal speaker and Qbasic itself. I still
use it now and then. Visual Basic was very complicated at first. I thought it was fun
to click and design a whole Win95 form onto the screen but my biggest problems was that
once I wrote the program there wasn't anything I could do with it. So I found a good
book on VB and that book tought me the aspects of programming, such as variables
procedures, functions, etc. From there I found Explorer Post 227. It's a place where
curious programmers come together and "explore" the possiblilties of computers
and computer programming. Me and a couple of my peers got together and we wrote
Area 227, a Qbasic space shooter game! Now, it's not like your average ASCII or
circle-box-line game. We used sprites! So, I learned sprites, the game loop, etc.
But I needed more. I needed power. I needed control. Then I found C. C is
so powerful. C is so flexible. C dosen't have shit! I mean you have a lot of things
with the ANSI like the print functions, the memory stuff, etc. But I mean graphics
and sound stuff. Either you wrote it yourself or you downloaded someone's graphics
library off the net.

To make a very, very long story even shorter from what it already has piled up to
be, I keep being sucked away into all these new adventures when it comes to programming.
I'm being introduced to all these new things and innovations. Programming is like a
never ending story and a new chapter is being added on everyday. I always thought
it was something that you could master in a short amount of time but you will never get
to master programming, even if you do it everyday for the rest of your life. All you can
do is gain exprience and pass your adventures on to the next person. My biggest
goal for the longest time was to write a series of emulators. I've got the knowledge,
I've got the help, I've got the tools; yet I don't even want to do it anymore. I feel
like I've wasted my life and time on something that nobody even cares about. Everyone
else my age is working, going to parites, gettin' high, fucking their brains out with
some bitch that they don't give a damn about, and I'm sitting in front of a machine
everyday. I can't exactly say that I've totally wasted my time because I've learned
a shit load about something that I really have a passion for. I can actually sit down
with someone and tell them, "This is how this machine works." Or, "This is how
a television displays images to your screen." Or, "This is how your CD player
plays the information on your Busta Rhymes CD." The one thing that I'm really
proud to tell people is how a speaker amplifies a frequency to produce sounds
that we can hear. Man, I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about anymore.
But you're right. This stuff is benificial for me.

Chris :o)
 
Chris
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I love music too
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 8:56 pm
Quote
> I care. I am a musician.

I'm a musician too. I play the piano, the organ, and I compose midis on my pc. My favorite thing
to do is remix or re-arrange video game music.

Quote
>I'd give it a shot, if it weren't my final year of High School.

Hey buddy, I'm a Junior when school starts up this year.

Quote
> To keep them alive. Without people like us, the SMS would probably shrivel up and die without anybody ever caring.

That's the thing. We're keeping the systems alive in the emulation community but the emulation
community is only a fraction on the net. If I were to go up to someone I didn't know and ask them
what a Sega Master System was they wouldn't know. Some idiots don't even know what a Sega
Game Gear is and that's one of the more popular systems around here.

Quote
> If you think *you* are confused in the head right now, then I'll willingly trade lives with you.

> -unfnknblvbl

And how are you confused? If it's too personal, E-Mail me.

Chris :o)
 
Limbs a Flyin'
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Re: Good Point
Post Posted: Mon Jul 26, 1999 10:18 pm
not to mention that plug in unit for the dreamcast's control pad, z80 driven too.

the z80 can go up to 25mhz thesedays, and can be had for a few dollars each. pretty good for the hobbiest or the learning technician, il'd say.


Quote
> > also the gameboy is still alive and kicking and is a profitable market if thats
> > what you are looking for it uses a z80-like processor with a few changes.

> You're very right on that one. People still pay $70 dollars to play Mario
> Bros. on their red colored color gameboy. Not to mention all the little
> peripherials such as the gameboy printer and 2 player cable connector.

> Chris :o)
 
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Re: I love music too
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 1:32 am


Quote
> > I care. I am a musician.

> I'm a musician too. I play the piano, the organ, and I compose midis on my pc. My favorite thing
> to do is remix or re-arrange video game music.

Holy Shit! Me too!! I *LOVE* video game music!!! (only I play guitar and don't remix music)

Quote
> >I'd give it a shot, if it weren't my final year of High School.

> Hey buddy, I'm a Junior when school starts up this year.

Junior?? Sorry, but what year is that (counting from fisrt year of primary/elementary)? We don't have that sort of weird-arsed stuff here in Australia.
This is my 2nd shot at my final year -Year 13

Quote
> > To keep them alive. Without people like us, the SMS would probably shrivel up and die without anybody ever caring.

> That's the thing. We're keeping the systems alive in the emulation community but the emulation
> community is only a fraction on the net. If I were to go up to someone I didn't know and ask them
> what a Sega Master System was they wouldn't know. Some idiots don't even know what a Sega
> Game Gear is and that's one of the more popular systems around here.

Yeah, well, they're all just ignorant bastards.

Quote
> > If you think *you* are confused in the head right now, then I'll willingly trade lives with you.

> > -unfnknblvbl

> And how are you confused? If it's too personal, E-Mail me.

The main reason that makes a people turn to music or poetry; goddamned women!

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> Chris :o)

-unfnknblvbl
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Chris
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Wow! Amazing!
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 1:44 am
You live all the way in Australia! That's...that's...that's awsome! The olympics is going to be there next
year! That's kick ass! That's so cool! I've always wanted to go there and see the kangaroos and the
lovely birds and stuff. I heard there's some really great beaches out there too.

What I mean by Junior is that I'm in the 11th grade of High School. I only have two more years to
go; this one and next year (12th) then I'm graduating with a diploma.

You don't know how cool this is. I found somebody who appreciates the talent that goes into video
game music and he lives in Australia. You've made my day buddy!

Chris :o)
 
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VMS on Dreamcast
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 6:41 am
Quote
> not to mention that plug in unit for the dreamcast's control pad, z80 driven too.

No way. I did a few (read: crap) programs for the VMS and it's not a Z80, as far as I know.
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Limbs a Flyin'
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Re: VMS on Dreamcast
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 6:54 am

Quote
> > not to mention that plug in unit for the dreamcast's control pad, z80 driven too.

> No way. I did a few (read: crap) programs for the VMS and it's not a Z80, as far as I know.

oops, ok my mistake. what does it use then ;) dont tell us if you are not allowed to tho
 
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Re: Wow! Amazing!
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 9:47 am
Quote
> You live all the way in Australia! That's...that's...that's awsome! The olympics is going to be there next
> year! That's kick ass! That's so cool! I've always wanted to go there and see the kangaroos and the
> lovely birds and stuff.

That's awesome? The olymics are too expensive ($800AUD for a decent seat at the soccer!) and we hardly ever see Kangaroos here in Adelaide. But, yes, the birds (of both vearieties ;) definatly kick arse.

Quote
>I heard there's some really great beaches out there too.

Yeah.

Quote
> What I mean by Junior is that I'm in the 11th grade of High School. I only have two more years to
> go; this one and next year (12th) then I'm graduating with a diploma.

Hehe, I'm *still* doing some year 11 subjects

Quote
> You don't know how cool this is. I found somebody who appreciates the talent that goes into video
> game music and he lives in Australia. You've made my day buddy!

And you've made mine. You're a freak, mate (that's a good thing).
~unfnknblvbl
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Re: In the future
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 10:08 am
Quote
>I can actually sit down
> with someone and tell them, "This is how this machine works." Or, "This is how
> a television displays images to your screen." Or, "This is how your CD player
> plays the information on your Busta Rhymes CD." The one thing that I'm really
> proud to tell people is how a speaker amplifies a frequency to produce sounds
> that we can hear.

Are you aware of what effect that sort of talk has on normal people? Just talking in musical terms confuses the shit out of most people, let alone explaining how a computer(or anything, for that matter) works.

Quote
>Man, I don't even know what the hell I'm talking about anymore.

That's allright, we all have our days I suppose.

Quote
> But you're right. This stuff is benificial for me.

It is? That's it, if it's good for me, then it must be crap! I'm outta here! (joking)

Quote
> Chris :o)

~unfnknblvbl
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Re: VMS on Dreamcast
Post Posted: Tue Jul 27, 1999 10:48 pm
Quote
> > > not to mention that plug in unit for the dreamcast's control pad, z80 driven too.
> > No way. I did a few (read: crap) programs for the VMS and it's not a Z80, as far as I know.
> oops, ok my mistake. what does it use then ;) dont tell us if you are not allowed to tho

I'm not allowed to. Anyway, I would have told you, but I forgot (for real :-)
I'll check tomorrow.
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