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Common wisdom says that ROM costs were a major factor in console development. But SMS games were frequently multiple megabits and had bank switching while contemporaries were forced to use much smaller ROMs.

Did Sega have their own supplier deals? Were they leveraging their arcade production capacity in ways Atari and the big N weren’t?

I don't think they were, particularly. NES games were also quite large. Atari was 5+ years behind, so it's not a fair comparison. Possibly Sega were also less awful about releasing games in the West years after they were released in Japan.

It might be interesting to plot game sizes vs. release date for various systems on a graph.

Yeah, you should really cross-reference release dates of specific sizes of games for both systems.

As far as I can tell, everyone hit the same acceptable price points at the same time.

Part of it is that brand N's 8-bit console outlasted the Master System in many markets, giving it more time to benefit from mask ROM density increases as Sega devs pivoted to the Genesis.

Brand N:
Super M*rio Bros. 2 (U) and 3 are 2 and 3 Mbit
Kirby's Adventure is 6 Mbit, which Sega 8-bit wouldn't surpass until (I think) Sonic Blast

Capcom:
Mega Man 1-4 are 1, 2, 3, and 4 Mbit
Mega Man 5 and 6 are also 4 Mbit

Konami:
Both TMNT beat-em-ups are 4 Mbit
Castlevania III is 3 Mbit

Sunsoft:
Gimmick and Batman: Return of the Joker are 3 Mbit

Square Enix:
Final Fantasy I and II are 2 Mbit
Final Fantasy III is 4 Mbit
The US version of Dragon Warrior III and all versions of Dragon Warrior IV are 4 Mbit

As usual you all are correct. I think I got it in my head that, if SMB 1 was fitting into 40K (quite a feat!), that the other games were similarly constrained. But yeah, I have now confirmed the later SMB titles are multi-megabit affairs.

Also consider that SMB1 (40KB) was first released in 1985; compare to Sega's games at the time (for SG-1000) which were no larger than 32KB. The first Sega home games larger than 32KB were the "Mega" cartridges (128KB) in 1986.

PinoBatch wrote

Part of it is that brand N's 8-bit console outlasted the Master System in many markets, giving it more time to benefit from mask ROM density increases as Sega devs pivoted to the Genesis.

Brand N:
Super M*rio Bros. 2 (U) and 3 are 2 and 3 Mbit
Kirby's Adventure is 6 Mbit, which Sega 8-bit wouldn't surpass until (I think) Sonic Blast

Capcom:
Mega Man 1-4 are 1, 2, 3, and 4 Mbit
Mega Man 5 and 6 are also 4 Mbit

Konami:
Both TMNT beat-em-ups are 4 Mbit
Castlevania III is 3 Mbit

Sunsoft:
Gimmick and Batman: Return of the Joker are 3 Mbit

Square Enix:
Final Fantasy I and II are 2 Mbit
Final Fantasy III is 4 Mbit
The US version of Dragon Warrior III and all versions of Dragon Warrior IV are 4 Mbit

There is an important technical detail that, unusual to I think any other console, the NES PPU is designed to read tile data from the cartridge memory. Thus all NES cartridges had a ROM or RAM (with pros and cons to each of those choices, not the least that the former does require its own bankswitching) dedicated to the video chip inside.

It is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison to compare just the total ROM sizes.
I recall Famicom Sky Kid is 48KB while the NES version is 160KB and almost all that extra space is empty, almost certainly to deal with the technical difference between Namco (who was doing a whole of crazy s**t with their carts, to became a major study topic for hardware researchers) and "Brand N" cartridge hardware.

I think the SMS and NES did have bankswitching around the same time.
(FC did have CHR-ROM bankswitching by the end of 1985, and I think PRG-ROM by early 1986.) That would be fairly comparable to the earliest Mark III carts as to which had "bankswitching" first? (I happened to have just recently been looking at this very topic.)
(in case unfamiliar with those terms "CHR-ROM" is character ROM, tied to the video chip, and PRG-ROM is the program ROM, tied to the CPU)
From what I've read, the earliest Mark III software was My Cards, wasn't it? Cartridges didn't come until a bit later, didn't they?
I have no idea on Atari carts. Or MSX, another contender for this topic.

Sega moved back to cartridges as soon as it was clear they needed to use bank switching. Fantasy Zone is apparently the first.

Author	Message
SavagePencil Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 228 Location: Seattle, WA	Why did Sega use multiple megabit ROMs while NES & Atari were so much stingier? Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:24 pm
	Common wisdom says that ROM costs were a major factor in console development. But SMS games were frequently multiple megabits and had bank switching while contemporaries were forced to use much smaller ROMs. Did Sega have their own supplier deals? Were they leveraging their arcade production capacity in ways Atari and the big N weren’t?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 15021 Location: London	Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2024 6:24 pm
	I don't think they were, particularly. NES games were also quite large. Atari was 5+ years behind, so it's not a fair comparison. Possibly Sega were also less awful about releasing games in the West years after they were released in Japan. It might be interesting to plot game sizes vs. release date for various systems on a graph.

lidnariq Joined: 24 Mar 2021 Posts: 150	Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2024 8:09 pm
lidnariq Joined: 24 Mar 2021 Posts: 150	Yeah, you should really cross-reference release dates of specific sizes of games for both systems. As far as I can tell, everyone hit the same acceptable price points at the same time.

PinoBatch Joined: 05 Dec 2019 Posts: 67 Location: USA	Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2024 9:51 pm
PinoBatch Joined: 05 Dec 2019 Posts: 67 Location: USA	Part of it is that brand N's 8-bit console outlasted the Master System in many markets, giving it more time to benefit from mask ROM density increases as Sega devs pivoted to the Genesis. Brand N: Super M*rio Bros. 2 (U) and 3 are 2 and 3 Mbit Kirby's Adventure is 6 Mbit, which Sega 8-bit wouldn't surpass until (I think) Sonic Blast Capcom: Mega Man 1-4 are 1, 2, 3, and 4 Mbit Mega Man 5 and 6 are also 4 Mbit Konami: Both TMNT beat-em-ups are 4 Mbit Castlevania III is 3 Mbit Sunsoft: Gimmick and Batman: Return of the Joker are 3 Mbit Square Enix: Final Fantasy I and II are 2 Mbit Final Fantasy III is 4 Mbit The US version of Dragon Warrior III and all versions of Dragon Warrior IV are 4 Mbit

SavagePencil Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 228 Location: Seattle, WA	Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 1:47 pm
	As usual you all are correct. I think I got it in my head that, if SMB 1 was fitting into 40K (quite a feat!), that the other games were similarly constrained. But yeah, I have now confirmed the later SMB titles are multi-megabit affairs.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 15021 Location: London	Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2024 2:09 pm
	Also consider that SMB1 (40KB) was first released in 1985; compare to Sega's games at the time (for SG-1000) which were no larger than 32KB. The first Sega home games larger than 32KB were the "Mega" cartridges (128KB) in 1986.

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 540	Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 2:27 am
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 540	PinoBatch wrote Part of it is that brand N's 8-bit console outlasted the Master System in many markets, giving it more time to benefit from mask ROM density increases as Sega devs pivoted to the Genesis. Brand N: Super Mrio Bros. 2 (U) and 3 are 2 and 3 Mbit Kirby's Adventure is 6 Mbit, which Sega 8-bit wouldn't surpass until (I think) Sonic Blast Capcom: Mega Man 1-4 are 1, 2, 3, and 4 Mbit Mega Man 5 and 6 are also 4 Mbit Konami: Both TMNT beat-em-ups are 4 Mbit Castlevania III is 3 Mbit Sunsoft: Gimmick and Batman: Return of the Joker are 3 Mbit Square Enix: Final Fantasy I and II are 2 Mbit Final Fantasy III is 4 Mbit The US version of Dragon Warrior III and all versions of Dragon Warrior IV are 4 Mbit There is an important technical detail that, unusual to I think any other console, the NES PPU is designed to read tile data from the cartridge memory. Thus all NES cartridges had a ROM or RAM (with pros and cons to each of those choices, not the least that the former does require its own bankswitching) dedicated to the video chip inside. It is a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison to compare just the total ROM sizes. I recall Famicom Sky Kid is 48KB while the NES version is 160KB and almost all that extra space is empty, almost certainly to deal with the technical difference between Namco (who was doing a whole of crazy s*t with their carts, to became a major study topic for hardware researchers) and "Brand N" cartridge hardware. I think the SMS and NES did have bankswitching around the same time. (FC did have CHR-ROM bankswitching by the end of 1985, and I think PRG-ROM by early 1986.) That would be fairly comparable to the earliest Mark III carts as to which had "bankswitching" first? (I happened to have just recently been looking at this very topic.) (in case unfamiliar with those terms "CHR-ROM" is character ROM, tied to the video chip, and PRG-ROM is the program ROM, tied to the CPU) From what I've read, the earliest Mark III software was My Cards, wasn't it? Cartridges didn't come until a bit later, didn't they? I have no idea on Atari carts. Or MSX, another contender for this topic.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 15021 Location: London	Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2024 7:11 am
	Sega moved back to cartridges as soon as it was clear they needed to use bank switching. Fantasy Zone is apparently the first.

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