Forums

Sega Master System / Mark III / Game Gear
SG-1000 / SC-3000 / SF-7000 / OMV
Home - Forums - Games - Scans - Maps - Cheats - Credits
Music - Videos - Development - Hacks - Translations - Homebrew

View topic - By-pass RGB and C-Sync on MK-2000 (JAP Master System 1) ?

Reply to topic
Author Message
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
By-pass RGB and C-Sync on MK-2000 (JAP Master System 1) ?
Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:41 am
Last edited by Noob.Master.System on Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hello, Master System experts 👋

I’m going to buy a Master System 1 soon, and I have a question : does a MK-2000 (JAP Master System 1) could be modded with by-pass RGB and C-Sync, to have raw RGB signal, as the french model ?
To resume, the same thing you can do on a JAP Mega Drive 1.

Thanks for your answers.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13874
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:21 pm
It has the same RGB output port as other SMS1s globally.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:17 pm
Last edited by Noob.Master.System on Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
Maxim wrote
It has the same RGB output port as other SMS1s globally.


So, you mean it’s possible to do the by-pass and C-Sync mod on MK-2000 ?

I would like to be sure before buying.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13874
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:32 am
Is the goal to get RGB or to get RGB bypass to avoid jailbars? It’s not generally worth it on SMS because the interference comes from inside the chip.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:13 pm
Last edited by Noob.Master.System on Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Maxim wrote
Is the goal to get RGB or to get RGB bypass to avoid jailbars? It’s not generally worth it on SMS because the interference comes from inside the chip.


I know jailbars are a problem which can’t be completely corrected on Master System.

My goal is to have the same picture with a MK-2000 than with a french Master System 1, which is the one with the best picture, because of his raw RGB signal and C-Sync.

It’s the same thing on Mega Drive 1 : the french one has the best picture possible, but with a by-pass and C-Sync mod, jap Mega Drive 1 can also have the best picture, and I wanted to know if the same thing is possible with a jap Master System 1.

I don’t make those modifications myself, it’s my modder, but he can tell me if such a thing is possible only when he’ll get the console in his hands. But I don’t want to buy it for finally he says to me it’s impossible 😕
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13874
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:00 pm
Well, the French RVB cable plugs nicely into a Japanese Master System and the picture seems good to me.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:17 pm
Maxim wrote
Well, the French RVB cable plugs nicely into a Japanese Master System and the picture seems good to me.


It’s not exactly an answer to my question, but thanks anyway.

I found this : https://www.retrorgb.com/smsrgbbypass.html.
Maybe that means it’s possible to make a by-pass RGB on any Master System 1 🤷‍♂️
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Site Admin
  • Joined: 19 Oct 1999
  • Posts: 13874
  • Location: London
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:35 am
Yes - as that page says, you don’t need to do a mod to get decent RGB. However if you do want to, the VDP chips are the same globally.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2014
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: NYC
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:39 pm
Note that you'll need a different RGB SCART cable for the MK-2000 then for standard NTSC SMS'.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:30 pm
RetroRGB wrote
Note that you'll need a different RGB SCART cable for the MK-2000 then for standard NTSC SMS'.


Does this cable could suit to a by-passed RGB and C-Sync MK-2000 : https://retro-access.com/products/genesis-1-bnc-and-rca-cable-pro-coaxial-multic... ?

What I need to do the by-pass it’s this : https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product/sega-rgb/ ?
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:38 am
Little 🆙

If someone could answer to my previous message, it will be very nice.

Thank you 🙏
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2014
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: NYC
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:34 pm
I apologize, I totally forgot to post a link with my response! https://www.retrorgb.com/sms.html

The issue is that the MK-2000 contains the 75ohm resistors and 220uF caps on the motherboard, meaning all you need is a passthrough cable for RGB. ALL other SMS and Genesis versions except the French consoles (that's a whole other story) include and REQUIRE those components in the cable itself, so if you try to use it with an MK-2000, you'll get no signal; This isn't a safety issue, it'll just drop the voltage too low for most displays or processors to detect. Alternatively, using an MK-2000 RGB cable on any other SMS or Genesis is very bad.

If the cable linked on my page is out of stock, you can try using a Genesis 1 RGB cable and removing the resistors: If they're contained in the SCART head that's pretty easy, but if they're in the console side of the cable (the better option), it's near impossible.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:53 pm
RetroRGB wrote
I apologize, I totally forgot to post a link with my response! https://www.retrorgb.com/sms.html

The issue is that the MK-2000 contains the 75ohm resistors and 220uF caps on the motherboard, meaning all you need is a passthrough cable for RGB. ALL other SMS and Genesis versions except the French consoles (that's a whole other story) include and REQUIRE those components in the cable itself, so if you try to use it with an MK-2000, you'll get no signal; This isn't a safety issue, it'll just drop the voltage too low for most displays or processors to detect. Alternatively, using an MK-2000 RGB cable on any other SMS or Genesis is very bad.

If the cable linked on my page is out of stock, you can try using a Genesis 1 RGB cable and removing the resistors: If they're contained in the SCART head that's pretty easy, but if they're in the console side of the cable (the better option), it's near impossible.


No need to apologize of course, and many thanks for your complete answer !

I visit your website very regularly to learn what I need to build my retrogaming setup, it’s such a great help !
Having said that, this special RGB cable for MK-2000 had escaped me, and as it’s badly referenced on Retro Access website (you can only find it with the search bar), I didn’t find it….

Do you know if, on this cable : https://retro-access.com/products/genesis-1-bnc-and-rca-cable-pro-coaxial-multic... , the resistors can easily be removed or not, to work with the MK-2000 ?

Second question, does the fact I plan to use this with the MK-2000 : https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product/sega-rgb/, change anything to the cable to use ?

Thanks again !
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2014
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: NYC
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:20 pm
The BNC cable is the same as their standard SCART cable. You'll want to contact them directly for a MK-2000 cable.

If you use that amp, you'll be changing the output signal. That's fine, as long as whoever gets the console after you understands that. And yes, if you use that and remove all the RGBs caps and resistors from the motherboard, you can use a standard SMS/Genesis cable...

...but have you seen pictures and videos of bypassed SMS consoles? SMS2's look pretty good, but SMS1 NTSC (and MK-2000) all have RAM noise that's very noticeable. People have been trying to fix this for awhile, but in most cases its easiest to just leave the console as-is.

Totally up to you though! I just know how much time Voultar, Jose, Tian and I spent testing SMS bypasses and it often wasn't worth the effort on model 1's.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:42 pm
RetroRGB wrote
The BNC cable is the same as their standard SCART cable. You'll want to contact them directly for a MK-2000 cable.

If you use that amp, you'll be changing the output signal. That's fine, as long as whoever gets the console after you understands that. And yes, if you use that and remove all the RGBs caps and resistors from the motherboard, you can use a standard SMS/Genesis cable...

...but have you seen pictures and videos of bypassed SMS consoles? SMS2's look pretty good, but SMS1 NTSC (and MK-2000) all have RAM noise that's very noticeable. People have been trying to fix this for awhile, but in most cases its easiest to just leave the console as-is.

Totally up to you though! I just know how much time Voultar, Jose, Tian and I spent testing SMS bypasses and it often wasn't worth the effort on model 1's.


Thanks again for these details, they are very important to me before buying.

The problem with Retro Access is they never answered to a single one of my messages, and neither they look the "pinout notes" I attach when ordering :( It’s fine, their cables are the best, and I know they have a lot of works to do, but that happens I must adjust their cables to work with my consoles.

What you say about the NTSC Master System picture is very interesting, and could make me change my mind on which model to buy....

So, for you who have tested many models, which Master System offers the best picture :
1 - Master System 1 French RGB ?
2 - Master System 1 NTSC / MK-2000 stock ?
3 - Master System 1 NTSC / MK-2000 by-passed RGB ?
4 - Other models ?
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 23 Apr 2014
  • Posts: 126
  • Location: NYC
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:23 pm
You need to decide what your end goal is. To get the cleanest SMS experience, you'll want an FPGA-based solution like the MiSTer or Analogue products. If you'd like a good SMS solution with original hardware, I've often found using a Genesis/Mega Drive via Power Base Converter (including the Power Base Mini and FM) or ROM cart to be cleaner overall.

If you'd like to use original SMS hardware (like I often do), you'll need to compromise: Getting an SMS 2 and replacing the RF box with a Genesis 2 style port can often (but not always) result in a great signal and will output both composite video and RGB. You'll loose RF though of course...and since it's an SMS2, you won't have a card slot.

For SMS 1's, you can try an RGB bypass, but it'll still be fairly noisy in most cases. Especially with the MK-2000.

My personal choice has been leaving the SMS 1 stock and just enjoying it for what it is. Then, for the times I want a super clean solution (like when I'm streaming, or gaming on a flat-panel), I use my MiSTer.

There is no "perfect" solution for an SMS though, unless you buy a bunch of different versions, do a bunch of mods and keep the one that looks best. That's why I didn't cover some of the other "fixes" I've found over the years - They don't work consistently on all regions and board revisions.

Good luck with your choice.
  View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
  • Joined: 21 Oct 2021
  • Posts: 9
Reply with quote
Post Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:35 pm
RetroRGB wrote
You need to decide what your end goal is. To get the cleanest SMS experience, you'll want an FPGA-based solution like the MiSTer or Analogue products. If you'd like a good SMS solution with original hardware, I've often found using a Genesis/Mega Drive via Power Base Converter (including the Power Base Mini and FM) or ROM cart to be cleaner overall.

If you'd like to use original SMS hardware (like I often do), you'll need to compromise: Getting an SMS 2 and replacing the RF box with a Genesis 2 style port can often (but not always) result in a great signal and will output both composite video and RGB. You'll loose RF though of course...and since it's an SMS2, you won't have a card slot.

For SMS 1's, you can try an RGB bypass, but it'll still be fairly noisy in most cases. Especially with the MK-2000.

My personal choice has been leaving the SMS 1 stock and just enjoying it for what it is. Then, for the times I want a super clean solution (like when I'm streaming, or gaming on a flat-panel), I use my MiSTer.

There is no "perfect" solution for an SMS though, unless you buy a bunch of different versions, do a bunch of mods and keep the one that looks best. That's why I didn't cover some of the other "fixes" I've found over the years - They don't work consistently on all regions and board revisions.

Good luck with your choice.


Indeed, I want absolutely stay on the original Master System hardware, and have the best possible picture on it.

As you said, the only thing I can do is to compare a French Master System, a MK-2000 and a modded Master System 2.

Thanks again for all your advices, I know I already took too much of your time for my own.
Maybe this thread could help some people who want to know which model buy though.
  View user's profile Send private message
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2021
  • Posts: 2
Reply with quote
Master
Post Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:54 pm
Hello Master System 1 can be modified with RGB and C-Sync passes, I did it myself and I did it, but you need to spend a lot of time on it, unfortunately there is a guide on YouTube on how to do it, it is quite easy but takes time
  View user's profile Send private message
Reply to topic



Back to the top of this page

Back to SMS Power!