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View topic - SMS Street Fighter 2 ROM Hack

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  • Joined: 29 Mar 2012
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:45 am
Tom wrote
Dunno about 3, but I made a playthrough of Jang Pung 2 some time ago: http://youtube.com/watch?v=q0Ualg3uJ_A

Don't hold your breath, though. The game is barely playable. Recording that video was a pain.

2nd is barely playable, but 3 is the best fighting game in SMS IMHO
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:54 am
maxxoccupancy wrote
The characters would be drawn as background tiles except that hands, head, feet, and opponent-facing sprites are drawn individually as sprites in order to take advantage of the VDP's built-in collision detection.


Believe me when I tell you that there is absolutely no way anyone could do anything useful with the built-in collision detection unless you only have two sprites on screen in total.

As for your other suggestions: I appreciate your enthusiasm and creativity, but I don't think you have a very clear idea about how long different things take in terms of cpu cycles. Manipulating the video memory is costly, as is driving sampled sound via line interrupts. You'll hardly get some kind of game logic running in parallel.
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:43 am
I've used the collision flag on Cimmerian.
But that's a very specific game ; only 2 big metasprites (between 16/20 8x8 tiles each) and nothing more (no fireball or trowing things etc). So you can easily know who is attacking...
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Street Fighter II images for SMS
Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:54 pm
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:09 am
maxxoccupancy wrote
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.


Are the sprites considered completely done, or are they a work in progress?
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:07 pm
xfixium wrote
maxxoccupancy wrote
Could you take a look at that? I've removed the light grays, trying to confine the whole images to the left most 12 colors. I also improved the pants again and patterned them more on the originial images.

I also added the same highlights to the A shirts on the left two images.

The faces I left the same, but I feel that the right most image is probably the best that we can get with the low resolution that we're dealing with.


Are the sprites considered completely done, or are they a work in progress?


I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.
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Post Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:37 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.


Gotcha, here's my critique for the the far right sprite:

Face could use more shading. Some potential highlights can be added to remove flatness.

Arms, torso, and chest. Need more shading, too flat.

The dog tag chain, not defined enough.

Top of pants pocket on the left side, looks less like the source sprite, and original scale.

Boot on left side, vague design, doesn't look much like the source.

Also note, the legs are identical for the left 2 sprites. The far right legs are identical until closer to the belt. If you review the source sprites.

Hope that helps.
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:01 am
All right. I'll go over the SNES originals and see how much of that quality and style I can follow.

Some patterns you notice only from a distance. Others appear up close. I don't have original arcade drawings, so I'm having to guess at what some of their pixel art represents.

Doing my best.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:16 pm
Hi this is an amazing project

I never thought that this would be happening one day for SF2 in SMS..

Can I ask for a few suggestion is it is okay

1.) Make the execution motion of input for the special move slightly easier and forgiving in timing even they are still the same motion input.

2.) Is it possible that some special moves are aligned like in the game for example Ryu Tatsu/HuricaneKick slightly move up, Guile's Flash Kick slightly move up and Guile's Sonic boom slight move middle aligned of his body

3.) Modify or Replace some special moves if possible like this



    *If Ryu's Hadouken is blocked by his enemy, his enemy is pushed farther compared to other projectile that hits a blocked enemy.

    *Ken's Tatsu Replace by Shoryuken (to make him unique to Ken)

    *Ken's Hadoken is slightly slower than Ryu

    *Chun li projectile is at same speed as Ken

    *Guile can recover and move early after throwing a
    projectile(SonicBoom) compare to other character.

    *Sonic boom is slower than Chun li Projectile

    *Guile Flash Kick move more upward and have huge hitbox and small hurtbox

    *Balrog Special Move is invincible on startup animation and have high damage and doesn't push away his enemy far away from him other than knocking them down in front of him.

    *Sagat's Tiger Knee Replace by Tiger UpperCut

    *Sagat's Lower Tiger Shot Change to High Tiger Shot

    *If Sagat's Tiger Shot hit his opponent unblocked the Tiger Shot pushes the enemy farther compare to other projectiles in game.

    *If Bison's Scissor Kick hits his enemy, it causes his enemy to be in knockdown state and Bison lands in front of his enemy .

    *Anti-Air like special moves cannot be hit or invincible when it's moving up but can be attacked and hit when recovering or moving down


Thank you
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 8:31 pm
xfixium wrote
maxxoccupancy wrote

I needed your feedback on the overall image (especially the finished on on the right) before reworking the face and hair for the other two. I think I could get them done in a day or two if you're good with the Guile on the right.


Gotcha, here's my critique for the the far right sprite:

Face could use more shading. Some potential highlights can be added to remove flatness.

Arms, torso, and chest. Need more shading, too flat.

The dog tag chain, not defined enough.

Top of pants pocket on the left side, looks less like the source sprite, and original scale.

Boot on left side, vague design, doesn't look much like the source.

Also note, the legs are identical for the left 2 sprites. The far right legs are identical until closer to the belt. If you review the source sprites.

Hope that helps.


I have been playing around with Pro Motion NG recently and found a couple of built in techniques that produce better results in less time. I was wondering if you happened to have a PMNG project file... or are we just working with the sprite sheets?

I'm pretty sure that I can just bring in the color palette and such manually, but that would take some time for each sheet.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:39 am
shakunetsu wrote
Hi this is an amazing project

I never thought that this would be happening one day for SF2 in SMS..

Can I ask for a few suggestion is it is okay

1.) Make the execution motion of input for the special move slightly easier and forgiving in timing even they are still the same motion input.

2.) Is it possible that some special moves are aligned like in the game for example Ryu Tatsu/HuricaneKick slightly move up, Guile's Flash Kick slightly move up and Guile's Sonic boom slight move middle aligned of his body

3.) Modify or Replace some special moves if possible like this



    *If Ryu's Hadouken is blocked by his enemy, his enemy is pushed farther compared to other projectile that hits a blocked enemy.

    *Ken's Tatsu Replace by Shoryuken (to make him unique to Ken)

    *Ken's Hadoken is slightly slower than Ryu

    *Chun li projectile is at same speed as Ken

    *Guile can recover and move early after throwing a
    projectile(SonicBoom) compare to other character.

    *Sonic boom is slower than Chun li Projectile

    *Guile Flash Kick move more upward and have huge hitbox and small hurtbox

    *Balrog Special Move is invincible on startup animation and have high damage and doesn't push away his enemy far away from him other than knocking them down in front of him.

    *Sagat's Tiger Knee Replace by Tiger UpperCut

    *Sagat's Lower Tiger Shot Change to High Tiger Shot

    *If Sagat's Tiger Shot hit his opponent unblocked the Tiger Shot pushes the enemy farther compare to other projectiles in game.

    *If Bison's Scissor Kick hits his enemy, it causes his enemy to be in knockdown state and Bison lands in front of his enemy .

    *Anti-Air like special moves cannot be hit or invincible when it's moving up but can be attacked and hit when recovering or moving down


Thank you


I can look at these in more detail at some point, but for now, I'm just focusing on the work in front of me. Some of your list I'm fairly certain are beyond me. The positional ones I can do things about most likely. I do like the idea of Shoryuken just for Ken, and replacing his Tatsu. The problem is actually writing the move behavior in code.

maxxoccupancy wrote

I have been playing around with Pro Motion NG recently and found a couple of built in techniques that produce better results in less time. I was wondering if you happened to have a PMNG project file... or are we just working with the sprite sheets?

I'm pretty sure that I can just bring in the color palette and such manually, but that would take some time for each sheet.


Well, I'm basically just using a sprite sheet. I have some pre-scaled and color converted versions of them. As I have shared previously on the test sheet, for example. If I were you, I would just download a SNES sprite sheet off spriter's resource, and give it a go. I believe they have the SMS sheets as well. Use them for size reference when scaling the SNES sprites down. Then color convert for SMS. Share your results, and we can go from there. Nothin' to it, but to do it.

Updates, I finalized Blanka's stage. I'm on the fence on if I want to use black or the sky color for the first two rows. The tree looks cut off when against the sky color, and I can't set the bg tiles for the top two first rows as they are locked in a static pattern for the entire width of the stage.

I got sick and lost productive days. Haven't been all that motivated since. I instead turned to things I could physically read. Started learning Z80 (and others) asm basics through Chibi Akumas first book, and his videos. Practicing coding, to get familiar with the Z80.

Blanka's sprites have been done, except for 7 damage frames. Hoping to wrap that up this weekend. A small vid of that. Till next time!

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sf2/videos/sms_sf2_vid_0004.mp4
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 3:18 am
That looks so good. It's so much better than anything I've seen on the SMS. I see what you mean by making shapes more round. That's really difficult while preserving details, but you've clearly pulled it off. That's some good work. I'm honored to get the opportunity to help out on this project.

I wanted to use Pro Motion NG because it has some cool techniques for changing groups of colors and getting more consistent results from one image to the next. I probably could use some other tricks to scale down the SNES sprite sheet images and get an even better result. What percentage are we reducing these by? From 90 pixels to 72, or about 20% on each dimension. That's pretty much like taking the whole image in as 5x5 tiles and scaling that all down to 4x4 tiles, then find colors by nearest using your palettes.

I've also been reading a lot of Z80, 68000, and SuperH optimization and coding techniques. It's interesting seeing how similar they are and how they face a lot of the same limitations. I so wish that Motorola had built the 68k like a SuperH-style RISC processor from the get go. All three are similar in their rich instruction sets, large, flat register files, addressing modes, and good code density.

Just as an experiment, I tried to use both GIMP and Pro Motion NG to scale the SNES images down and automatically demake the images using the included color palette. While this is fast enough to turn the entire sprite sheet into something that would fit on the SMS in about 10 minutes, it looks only marginally better than the TecToy images and not as good as hand redrawn characters. It might be worthwhile to perform a test on a sprite sheet, but I felt like these would need almost as much touch up work.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:30 am
As someone who has done pixel graphics for a living a couple of years ago, which included a lot of resizing tiles and sprites for various low resolutions as well as adapting color palettes for different limited systems, I can tell you that you won't get any adequate results without massive amounts of manual work. Sometimes it's actually better to use the rescaled asset only as a rough guideline and do the new asset from scratch.

Pro Motion is a wonderful tool, but it can't do magic, and no automated process will get you results anywhere near the quality xfixium is aiming for.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:57 am
xfixium wrote

https://www.pyxosoft.com/projects/sms_sf2/videos/sms_sf2_vid_0004.mp4

Well, it looks utterly fantastic! The black bar was not distracting to me.
One tiny thing, do the clouds have yellow in them? Why?
I thought about the colors of Blanka himself again, and i'm glad you kept him yellow, instead of green.

About Guile and his victory pose. He is holding a comb, right? I would keep that clear, by using light green and black, like on the snes. The picture below is your quick edit. The comb is skin colored there.



What i do when resizing, is change the palette of the original picture to what i need on the sms. And then do the resize. It might help a tiny bit.
When i'm done with my Sonic project then i can give resizing and retouching a try. But honestly, i probably won't be able to match your quality. And when i'm done with Sonic, you are probably done with sf2.


One more thing. I'm really a professional nitpicker now. Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:36 am
Quote
I got sick and lost productive days. Haven't been all that motivated since. I instead turned to things I could physically read. Started learning Z80 (and others) asm basics through Chibi Akumas first book, and his videos. Practicing coding, to get familiar with the Z80.


If you need a break from this project then take one, remember the time limit was one you self imposed, if it's causing pressure it's not a good thing, it'll let you return to it with fresh eyes at a later date.

I can't really say anything I haven't already said before, it looks amazing, the black bar is fine and the floor is looking much better than I imagined, It's not easy to mirror this floor in a way that keeps tiles down and looks good, you've done better than my attempts.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:41 am
slogra wrote
Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).
Without having a stance about that, let me inform you that the blue behaviour is believed to be a bug, or at least possibly unintentional.

But sure, as you can see, from a technical point of view, it's definitely possible to alter any palette routine to fit anyone's taste. How easy and how worth it those alterations would be is not for me to say.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:12 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

Just as an experiment, I tried to use both GIMP and Pro Motion NG to scale the SNES images down and automatically demake the images using the included color palette. While this is fast enough to turn the entire sprite sheet into something that would fit on the SMS in about 10 minutes, it looks only marginally better than the TecToy images and not as good as hand redrawn characters. It might be worthwhile to perform a test on a sprite sheet, but I felt like these would need almost as much touch up work.


The scaled sprites turned out nicely. I noticed the color conversion sorta nuked one of the pants colors however, where the light green would be used. The lighter red in the skin tone doesn't fit with the game up to this point. This is more of a consistency issue with me, than me thinking it doesn't look good, though. But overall not bad. It would be a good starting point for finalizing the sprite.

slogra wrote

One tiny thing, do the clouds have yellow in them? Why?


The yellow was once a lighter blue that I unfortunately had to get rid of. I tried either using the light blue or white to replace it, but both options made me sad lol So I used yellow for the least offensive placeholder. Just in case I could bring the original color back. Some previous screens still showed the original blue. Thanks for bringing it up, I should look at the palette again.

slogra wrote

About Guile and his victory pose. He is holding a comb, right? I would keep that clear, by using light green and black, like on the snes. The picture below is your quick edit. The comb is skin colored there.


While it wasn't meant as the finalized image, but more of a quick example, I'll post the proposed final one I did a bit ago. Not sure it'll meet what you said, but feel free to critique it.

slogra wrote

What i do when resizing, is change the palette of the original picture to what i need on the sms. And then do the resize. It might help a tiny bit.
When i'm done with my Sonic project then i can give resizing and retouching a try. But honestly, i probably won't be able to match your quality. And when i'm done with Sonic, you are probably done with sf2.


First, thanks for offering, I know your Sonic work is very detailed, and I truly enjoy seeing your updates. Second, I have tried doing color converting before and after scaling, but I don't recall if there was much difference. I usually rely on scaling more so than the color. That way I don't step out of bounds too much. Since one pixel can make or break the sprite.

slogra wrote

One more thing. I'm really a professional nitpicker now. Is it possible to change the fadein/fadeout colors? How does that work on the sms/this game? It tends to go red. Perhaps it would look better if it goes blue (like Sonic on the Genesis/MD).


Yeahh, it bothers me too. I'm not sure how the fading in and out is calculated color wise. It was something I was going to look at, at the very end. When everything was finalized.

Emrabt wrote

If you need a break from this project then take one, remember the time limit was one you self imposed, if it's causing pressure it's not a good thing, it'll let you return to it with fresh eyes at a later date.

I can't really say anything I haven't already said before, it looks amazing, the black bar is fine and the floor is looking much better than I imagined, It's not easy to mirror this floor in a way that keeps tiles down and looks good, you've done better than my attempts.


Thank you. It was, but I like to try and stick to what I say. I eventually pushed it out towards the end of April for everything. But it looks like with the amount of work left, I'll be lucky to finish by the end of April. I do have a bunch of vacation time I have to use before June, so I'll use that time optimally.

Also, thanks everyone on the top bars feedback. I'll keep 'em black.

Tom wrote

But sure, as you can see, from a technical point of view, it's definitely possible to alter any palette routine to fit anyone's taste. How easy and how worth it those alterations would be is not for me to say.


Thanks for the information and feedback. I would like to tinker with it a bit.
guile_stance_final.png (5.91 KB)
Proposed final version
guile_stance_final.png

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:32 pm
Yours is so much better. It took me about two hours per image to get those three as good as they are. Once I have adapted to your style, I may be able to crank out 1-2 frames per hour. I'm really beginning to appreciate the level of work that the old pixel artists put in, especially with the limited computing power that they had and the lack of Internet videos to help out.
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:45 am
xfixium wrote

I can look at these in more detail at some point, but for now, I'm just focusing on the work in front of me. Some of your list I'm fairly certain are beyond me. The positional ones I can do things about most likely. I do like the idea of Shoryuken just for Ken, and replacing his Tatsu. The problem is actually writing the move behavior in code.


Thank you for looking into it and what is possible.

The project is already great even without everything I mentioned.
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:32 am
I'm looking more closely at the pixel art style that you've used and have been looking at other games of the era that used really stark contrast to get a more rounded appearance.

I wonder if I might do better just taking your ideal image of Guile and just using that as the template for all of the images. It is pretty darned, good, after all.
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Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2022 12:03 pm
Just wanted to check in and see how things were going? Really enjoyed watching this develop.
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 3:27 am
I haven't been working on this, in favor of completing Golden Axe Tyris Edition hack. Once that is done, I will continue work. Nothing new to report atm.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:39 am
xfixium wrote
I haven't been working on this, in favor of completing Golden Axe Tyris Edition hack. Once that is done, I will continue work. Nothing new to report atm.


I can get back to working on this over the summer if I can get some direction. I just need to know if I should use your own ideal as a template for doing the other sprites on Guile.

I really enjoyed working on this and appreciate the honor of getting to contribute to this project.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:44 am
I suspect this project hit a snag with sagat's stage having so few tiles, I imagine it got a bit disheartening.
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:39 pm
maxxoccupancy wrote

I can get back to working on this over the summer if I can get some direction. I just need to know if I should use your own ideal as a template for doing the other sprites on Guile.


I would prefer that you keep the sprites like we had previously discussed. I'm not sure how much more direction I can offer. I'll convert a few more sprites however, as more of an example, if it helps.

Emrabt wrote
I suspect this project hit a snag with sagat's stage having so few tiles, I imagine it got a bit disheartening.


lol Nah, I'm working on TMNT now, I tend to ride waves of motivation. My apologies, I should've updated this thread to reflect that.

While Sagat's stage has only 70 tiles, I most likely can just insert the stage data at the end of the rom. Looks like there's a big juicy space to put the data. Then just point to that. Similar to what I did for Golden Axe. Even if I can't, I'll put something more like the original in there, at least.

I have a wip for the stage, but I have to reduce the size of the statue a bit more, tile count is 258 tiles currently (With mirroring). The max I can have is 192 tiles. I'll get there eventually. I have resized the statue 3 times previously, and optimized each time. Very time consuming.
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