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Just curious if this has ever come up? The SMS Ninja Gaiden is a great game in its own right, but I have always wondered if anyone had ever considered trying to use it as a base to build a port of the original NES game for SMS. It would be interesting to see those games with SMS colour palettes and music...both a psg soundtrack and FM alternative.

That would be a very interesting project, no doubt about it, but, in short, realistically, since the SMS and NES archtectures are so different as to make code reuse almost impossible.

Of course that does not mean it cannot be done; just that it would essentially require writing the game from scratch. That is perfectly doable, even fun, but would require the same amount of effort required to make a completely new game.

I think NewHorizon mean using SMS Ninja Gaiden as a base to recreate the Nes ones?

I don't think that would work any better than coding it from scratch. NES Ninja Gaiden is a very special beast with a rather unique feel to the way it controls. The best you could hope to achieve using SMS NG as your base would be something that looks like NES NG superficially but plays nothing like it, much like the disappointing PC-Engine version.

I consider that SMS Ninja Gaiden plays far better than the Nes counterparts (that ones have very nice level design but tough as hell Nes style control).

Oh, I agree with you. I just believe that the NG games have their controls very finely honed to their level design. If you change things, the game as a whole falls apart, as the PCE version teaches us. NES level design wouldn't work well with SMS style controls. (Maybe NG 3 would. That one controls a bit like the SMS game.)

Yes, I was thinking along the lines of using the SMS game as a foundation and re-designing the existing levels to look like those in the NES, reprogram the music as well.

The graphics and controls in the SMS version are pretty darn close to the NES. Not sure how much tweaking could be done to the existing game but it felt close enough to me while playing it recently that I thought it might be doable.

I don't think it would need to be a 1:1 clone but rather recreate the levels, then upgrade some of the graphics and mechanics to play to the SMS strengths. I can imagine the soundtrack on SMS blowing the nes version out of the water if it could be done similarly to the FM soundtrack someone made for Sonic 1 on SMS where the PSG and FM were used simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't build FM into the SMS by default worldwide, I think it really could have given the NES a pounding.

Speaking of 1:1 ports, that port of Super Mario Brothers to the Genesis was pretty amazing. I wish it had been ported over to the SMS as well. The colours on that would have been so vibrant and I think the music would be pretty sweet too. Someone tried a cover of it at one point.

Homebrew projects to port NES games to SMS from the ground are a bit rare. The only big one I know is Megaman II. But it is on hiatus because the creator is busy with his personal life.

You can note the SMS have a small problem to port NES games in 1:1 because the the screen resolution is a bit smaller than the SMS screen.

NTSC NES screen resolution are 256x240.
NTSC SMS screen resolution are 256x192, and the screen lost the left row of tiles in horizontal scrolling stages.

Buttons are not a problem, because SMS games can be set to use the Genesis / Mega Drive controller. But if the idea is to use the original SMS controller, the player can make use of the second pad to two extra buttons. Both Wonderboy in Monster World and The Dragon's Trap use the buttons of the second controller to pause de game without the need to stand up and press Pause on the console.

One game I would love to see a port for the SMS is TMNT: The Arcade Game. I think a SMS version could bring all the content of the NES, and restore somethings from the Arcade.

Another game could be interesting is Battletoads, but there's a GG version, who can give us an idea. The GG version can even be converted to a SMS game, but with the 2 Players option missing...

Are there any SMS rom editing programs one could use?

They are completely different hardware. One could not just edit an existing ROM.
To create a port, it would have to be completely reprogrammed from scratch.

KingMike wrote

They are completely different hardware. One could not just edit an existing ROM.
To create a port, it would have to be completely reprogrammed from scratch.

Sorry for missing your response. Yes, I realize they are different hardware. What I was asking is if there is any SMS rom editing software to allow someone to open up the SMS Ninja Gaiden and begin reworking the levels, etc, into something like the NES levels?

Seeing some of the SMS editing tools coming about, would any of those be of use for editing the levels and graphics in the SMS Ninja Gaiden to make a loose port of the NES version? The groundwork is there in the SMS game and it would certainly feel 'close enough' I think. Seeing Phantasy Star 2, and Ninja Turtles being ported just has me thinking of this game again.

Kagesan wrote

I don't think that would work any better than coding it from scratch. NES Ninja Gaiden is a very special beast with a rather unique feel to the way it controls. The best you could hope to achieve using SMS NG as your base would be something that looks like NES NG superficially but plays nothing like it, much like the disappointing PC-Engine version.

^ This!

Redoing the first NES Ninja Gaiden game on the SMS would be awesome, but the controls need to be from the NES game. Don't make a repeat of the PCE version.

I found the SMS original version overall lack luster or rather average/basic. It also looks very flat graphically (there's no depth), and doesn't 'feel' like a Ninja Gaiden game. If it didn't have the Ninja Gaiden namesake, I would have just thought it some other generic ninja game. Maybe it's worth bring that game design and graphics in-line with the NES style of the series (just more color!), instead of porting the NES versions.

It's curious, as I usually considered Master System version to have far more detailed graphics than the Nes counterpart... (Also I prefer to play SMS version, as the NES ones are very unfair games...)

kusfo wrote

It's curious, as I usually considered Master System version to have far more detailed graphics than the Nes counterpart... (Also I prefer to play SMS version, as the NES ones are very unfair games...)

SMS port has more colors (not much more tho), but definitely does not have more detail. Like I said, they graphics are very flat in the SMS one and have a limited/repeated tile look to it - there's no 3D depth to the artwork. It's just very bland and basic looking. The bosses in the SMS version are also pretty generic and un-inspiring compared to the NES first game (let alone the rest in the trilogy). Don't make me post comparison pics hahah. I don't think the artists/team were up for the task. A shame considering SMS hardware could really do the NES version justice in the color department!

Difficulty can be adjusted/balanced if ported - there's no need to keep the originals difficulty.

I'll need to review it properly as it has been years since I played Nes one extensively, but just looking for random screenshots in Google already showed me that Nes backgrounds are far less detailed than the Master System version ones...

Quote

I'll need to review it properly as it has been years since I played Nes one extensively, but just looking for random screenshots in Google already showed me that Nes backgrounds are far less detailed than the Master System version ones...

Hi friend. While that SMS version seems better in 1st stage in others is so bad. Here:

This graphic is childlike.

I prefer the Nes version even i loving my console (SMS).
@turboxray is the guy in therms of knowledge about 8 bits systems.

Childlike?

Quote

Childlike?

I think that you misunderstood my statmente. I saw about the 2 nd stage in specific e not others stage altough in general i think it is inferior in many aspects to NES NG.

segarule wrote

I think that you misunderstood my statmente. I saw about the 2 nd stage in specific e not others stage altough in general i think it is inferior in many aspects to NES NG.

Yeah, I wouldn't phrase it the same way but I agree with the sentiment... after that beautiful first stage, that almost looks like it could be a 16-bit game, the artwork for the city stage is really bad. Huge areas of flat color with no texture. It just goes from something that you feel like is pushing the console to its fullest capabilities, to something that looks like it was really rushed and possibly unfinished.

The NES game on the other hand is artistically very nice but a lot of the famous difficulty is actually cheap/unfair. Gameplay-wise the SMS version I think is more balanced.

Taking a quick look on the Internet, there do not seem to be any level editors, reverse engineering docs nor even disassemblies for the SMS version of Ninja Gaiden; whoever decides to edit it, will probably have to reverse engineer things from scratch.

Centrale wrote

The NES game on the other hand is artistically very nice but a lot of the famous difficulty is actually cheap/unfair. Gameplay-wise the SMS version I think is more balanced.

I have to disagree. The NES version is a steep challenge, but if you find it cheap or unfair, you're playing it wrong. It's not very intuitive, but the game wants you to play aggressively, diving headfirst into danger. Only then it develops its unique flow that, if you can get into it, feels very satisfying.

I wouldn't say the same about parts 2 and 3, though. They certainly don't play as smoothly, but then they're not as infamously difficult than the first one anyway.

The SMS version, I've always seen as some sort of Ninja Gaiden Gaiden, as the controls feel very differently and it plays much more like a traditional action platformer. It's a shame that visually, it peaks in stage one, as it really shows off what the SMS is capable of while the following stages don't do that at all.

Kagesan wrote

I have to disagree. The NES version is a steep challenge, but if you find it cheap or unfair, you're playing it wrong. It's not very intuitive, but the game wants you to play aggressively, diving headfirst into danger. Only then it develops its unique flow that, if you can get into it, feels very satisfying.

The developers even said as much a few years ago. They were surprised to find that most people didn't see the game the same way as expected and ended up having a lot of trouble.
The third game, though, that was one of many games to have its difficulty cheaply inflated for the English version.

Author	Message
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Anyone ever attempt a Ninja Gaiden NES to SMS port? Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:27 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Just curious if this has ever come up? The SMS Ninja Gaiden is a great game in its own right, but I have always wondered if anyone had ever considered trying to use it as a base to build a port of the original NES game for SMS. It would be interesting to see those games with SMS colour palettes and music...both a psg soundtrack and FM alternative.

haroldoop Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 874 Location: Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil	Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:41 pm
	That would be a very interesting project, no doubt about it, but, in short, realistically, since the SMS and NES archtectures are so different as to make code reuse almost impossible. Of course that does not mean it cannot be done; just that it would essentially require writing the game from scratch. That is perfectly doable, even fun, but would require the same amount of effort required to make a completely new game.

kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:20 am
kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	I think NewHorizon mean using SMS Ninja Gaiden as a base to recreate the Nes ones?

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:00 am
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	I don't think that would work any better than coding it from scratch. NES Ninja Gaiden is a very special beast with a rather unique feel to the way it controls. The best you could hope to achieve using SMS NG as your base would be something that looks like NES NG superficially but plays nothing like it, much like the disappointing PC-Engine version.

kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:11 am
kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	I consider that SMS Ninja Gaiden plays far better than the Nes counterparts (that ones have very nice level design but tough as hell Nes style control).

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:26 am
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	Oh, I agree with you. I just believe that the NG games have their controls very finely honed to their level design. If you change things, the game as a whole falls apart, as the PCE version teaches us. NES level design wouldn't work well with SMS style controls. (Maybe NG 3 would. That one controls a bit like the SMS game.)

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:32 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Yes, I was thinking along the lines of using the SMS game as a foundation and re-designing the existing levels to look like those in the NES, reprogram the music as well. The graphics and controls in the SMS version are pretty darn close to the NES. Not sure how much tweaking could be done to the existing game but it felt close enough to me while playing it recently that I thought it might be doable. I don't think it would need to be a 1:1 clone but rather recreate the levels, then upgrade some of the graphics and mechanics to play to the SMS strengths. I can imagine the soundtrack on SMS blowing the nes version out of the water if it could be done similarly to the FM soundtrack someone made for Sonic 1 on SMS where the PSG and FM were used simultaneously. It's such a shame Sega didn't build FM into the SMS by default worldwide, I think it really could have given the NES a pounding. Speaking of 1:1 ports, that port of Super Mario Brothers to the Genesis was pretty amazing. I wish it had been ported over to the SMS as well. The colours on that would have been so vibrant and I think the music would be pretty sweet too. Someone tried a cover of it at one point.

rouken Joined: 13 Apr 2005 Posts: 248 Location: Aracruz - ES, Brazil	Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:52 pm
	Homebrew projects to port NES games to SMS from the ground are a bit rare. The only big one I know is Megaman II. But it is on hiatus because the creator is busy with his personal life. You can note the SMS have a small problem to port NES games in 1:1 because the the screen resolution is a bit smaller than the SMS screen. NTSC NES screen resolution are 256x240. NTSC SMS screen resolution are 256x192, and the screen lost the left row of tiles in horizontal scrolling stages. Buttons are not a problem, because SMS games can be set to use the Genesis / Mega Drive controller. But if the idea is to use the original SMS controller, the player can make use of the second pad to two extra buttons. Both Wonderboy in Monster World and The Dragon's Trap use the buttons of the second controller to pause de game without the need to stand up and press Pause on the console. One game I would love to see a port for the SMS is TMNT: The Arcade Game. I think a SMS version could bring all the content of the NES, and restore somethings from the Arcade. Another game could be interesting is Battletoads, but there's a GG version, who can give us an idea. The GG version can even be converted to a SMS game, but with the 2 Players option missing...

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:52 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Are there any SMS rom editing programs one could use?

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 510	Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:31 am
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 510	They are completely different hardware. One could not just edit an existing ROM. To create a port, it would have to be completely reprogrammed from scratch.

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:54 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	KingMike wrote They are completely different hardware. One could not just edit an existing ROM. To create a port, it would have to be completely reprogrammed from scratch. Sorry for missing your response. Yes, I realize they are different hardware. What I was asking is if there is any SMS rom editing software to allow someone to open up the SMS Ninja Gaiden and begin reworking the levels, etc, into something like the NES levels?

NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:46 pm
NewHorizon Joined: 30 Nov 2017 Posts: 74	Seeing some of the SMS editing tools coming about, would any of those be of use for editing the levels and graphics in the SMS Ninja Gaiden to make a loose port of the NES version? The groundwork is there in the SMS game and it would certainly feel 'close enough' I think. Seeing Phantasy Star 2, and Ninja Turtles being ported just has me thinking of this game again.

turboxray Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Posts: 11	Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 6:08 am
turboxray Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Posts: 11	Kagesan wrote I don't think that would work any better than coding it from scratch. NES Ninja Gaiden is a very special beast with a rather unique feel to the way it controls. The best you could hope to achieve using SMS NG as your base would be something that looks like NES NG superficially but plays nothing like it, much like the disappointing PC-Engine version. ^ This! Redoing the first NES Ninja Gaiden game on the SMS would be awesome, but the controls need to be from the NES game. Don't make a repeat of the PCE version. I found the SMS original version overall lack luster or rather average/basic. It also looks very flat graphically (there's no depth), and doesn't 'feel' like a Ninja Gaiden game. If it didn't have the Ninja Gaiden namesake, I would have just thought it some other generic ninja game. Maybe it's worth bring that game design and graphics in-line with the NES style of the series (just more color!), instead of porting the NES versions.

kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:08 am
kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	It's curious, as I usually considered Master System version to have far more detailed graphics than the Nes counterpart... (Also I prefer to play SMS version, as the NES ones are very unfair games...)

turboxray Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Posts: 11	Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:22 pm
turboxray Joined: 09 Mar 2021 Posts: 11	kusfo wrote It's curious, as I usually considered Master System version to have far more detailed graphics than the Nes counterpart... (Also I prefer to play SMS version, as the NES ones are very unfair games...) SMS port has more colors (not much more tho), but definitely does not have more detail. Like I said, they graphics are very flat in the SMS one and have a limited/repeated tile look to it - there's no 3D depth to the artwork. It's just very bland and basic looking. The bosses in the SMS version are also pretty generic and un-inspiring compared to the NES first game (let alone the rest in the trilogy). Don't make me post comparison pics hahah. I don't think the artists/team were up for the task. A shame considering SMS hardware could really do the NES version justice in the color department! Difficulty can be adjusted/balanced if ported - there's no need to keep the originals difficulty.

kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 4:43 pm
kusfo Joined: 29 Mar 2012 Posts: 886 Location: Spain	I'll need to review it properly as it has been years since I played Nes one extensively, but just looking for random screenshots in Google already showed me that Nes backgrounds are far less detailed than the Master System version ones...

segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 436	Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:31 pm
segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 436	Quote I'll need to review it properly as it has been years since I played Nes one extensively, but just looking for random screenshots in Google already showed me that Nes backgrounds are far less detailed than the Master System version ones... Hi friend. While that SMS version seems better in 1st stage in others is so bad. Here: This graphic is childlike. I prefer the Nes version even i loving my console (SMS). @turboxray is the guy in therms of knowledge about 8 bits systems.

Aranya Joined: 02 Mar 2011 Posts: 165 Location: Valencia,Spain.	Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:46 pm
	Childlike? Childlike?

segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 436	Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 11:22 pm
segarule Joined: 23 Jan 2010 Posts: 436	Quote Childlike? I think that you misunderstood my statmente. I saw about the 2 nd stage in specific e not others stage altough in general i think it is inferior in many aspects to NES NG.

Centrale Joined: 06 Apr 2015 Posts: 89	Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:41 pm
Centrale Joined: 06 Apr 2015 Posts: 89	segarule wrote I think that you misunderstood my statmente. I saw about the 2 nd stage in specific e not others stage altough in general i think it is inferior in many aspects to NES NG. Yeah, I wouldn't phrase it the same way but I agree with the sentiment... after that beautiful first stage, that almost looks like it could be a 16-bit game, the artwork for the city stage is really bad. Huge areas of flat color with no texture. It just goes from something that you feel like is pushing the console to its fullest capabilities, to something that looks like it was really rushed and possibly unfinished. The NES game on the other hand is artistically very nice but a lot of the famous difficulty is actually cheap/unfair. Gameplay-wise the SMS version I think is more balanced.

haroldoop Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 874 Location: Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil	Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 9:06 pm
	Taking a quick look on the Internet, there do not seem to be any level editors, reverse engineering docs nor even disassemblies for the SMS version of Ninja Gaiden; whoever decides to edit it, will probably have to reverse engineer things from scratch.

Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:22 pm
Kagesan Joined: 01 Feb 2014 Posts: 877	Centrale wrote The NES game on the other hand is artistically very nice but a lot of the famous difficulty is actually cheap/unfair. Gameplay-wise the SMS version I think is more balanced. I have to disagree. The NES version is a steep challenge, but if you find it cheap or unfair, you're playing it wrong. It's not very intuitive, but the game wants you to play aggressively, diving headfirst into danger. Only then it develops its unique flow that, if you can get into it, feels very satisfying. I wouldn't say the same about parts 2 and 3, though. They certainly don't play as smoothly, but then they're not as infamously difficult than the first one anyway. The SMS version, I've always seen as some sort of Ninja Gaiden Gaiden, as the controls feel very differently and it plays much more like a traditional action platformer. It's a shame that visually, it peaks in stage one, as it really shows off what the SMS is capable of while the following stages don't do that at all.

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 510	Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:23 pm
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 510	Kagesan wrote I have to disagree. The NES version is a steep challenge, but if you find it cheap or unfair, you're playing it wrong. It's not very intuitive, but the game wants you to play aggressively, diving headfirst into danger. Only then it develops its unique flow that, if you can get into it, feels very satisfying. The developers even said as much a few years ago. They were surprised to find that most people didn't see the game the same way as expected and ended up having a lot of trouble. The third game, though, that was one of many games to have its difficulty cheaply inflated for the English version.

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