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The Master System has the greatest light gun videography in the history of videogames imho. 13 titles, 13 little gems. The NES couldn't really compare.

Now, the generation after that basically dropped the ball with light guns: the scope and the menacer are atrocities in more than one way.

However, the MD/Genesis with the Power Base is perfectly compatible with all the 13 light gun SMS titles, even the only one requiring 3D.

I always wondered... Since the Menacer was obviously an abomination, could a native Genesis title (imagine for example a 2019 homebrew) support the Light Phaser? Or is there something in the way it works that would prevent this? In other words, could the Light Phaser become a Genesis peripheral??

It if it was a Genesis game, it would likely be a Mode 5 (its native mode, that is with the 68k), yes?
Is the SMS (Z80) I/O available in that mode?

I think I have heard of switching to Mode 4 (SMS) while it is running. Would that allow it to run SMS code (IE to check the gun and store the results in RAM, as I believe the 68k is at the last able to read the Z80's RAM)?
It would be something weird like that if it can be done.

Aleste wrote

I always wondered... could a native Genesis title support the Light Phaser?

Certainly! Here's a demo of the Light Phaser being used on the Genesis as a Wiimote style input device.

DC9F1434-87D2-4299-BD1F-82DA6A64C573.gif (4.22 MB)

Attachment fairy

Hey, that demo looks interesting. Some time ago I was wondering if a Ruzzle clone for the Master System could be done by using the light phaser to pick the letters, and it sounded like it was extremely hard bordering on impossible from a theoretical point of view, I wonder if the approach behind that demo could be used for such a project.

Kjell wrote

Certainly! Here's a demo of the Light Phaser being used on the Genesis as a Wiimote style input device.]

Awesome! Therefore for all its lifecycle Genesis developers just overlooked the potential of this light gun. I mean... Bodycount, Revolution X, T2 Arcade and a great chunk of other titles... They could have implemented Light Phaser support?!?

If you think to it in this perspective, it's feels really strange, I mean... There must have been a magnitude more Light Phasers out there than Menacers. :D

I can't remember which came first between Menacer and its rival the Super Scope but both now seem like terrible ideas that were very much the '90s BIG AND BAD over-elaborate design.
Not sure whether in retrospect it was better that Sega called it quits after the pack-in game. :D

KingMike wrote

I can't remember which came first between Menacer and its rival the Super Scope but both now seem like terrible ideas

True. However, the important thing is that an indie developer, someone like Matt Phillips (Tanglewood) or Bitmap Bureau (Xenocrisis) could develop 16-bit, 68000 native shooting games for MD/Genesis by simply relying on the very trustworthy Light Phaser. :)

Or someone could hack existing games to add LPH support!

Wouldn't this be cool!?

KingMike wrote

It if it was a Genesis game, it would likely be a Mode 5 (its native mode, that is with the 68k), yes?
Is the SMS (Z80) I/O available in that mode?

I think I have heard of switching to Mode 4 (SMS) while it is running. Would that allow it to run SMS code (IE to check the gun and store the results in RAM, as I believe the 68k is at the last able to read the Z80's RAM)?
It would be something weird like that if it can be done.

Video mode has nothing to do with the processor - you can code a game for the MD using the 68k that uses VDP' mode 4 instead of mode 5.
But since mode 5 is an evolution of mode 4, I see no point.

The light phaser works by having the VDP latch something related to the current pixel horizontal location when it receives a trigger from the right controller pin. That's presumably exposed to both the Z80 and the 68000.

They could easily have removed this (and break backwards compatibility) or have had it only work in mode 4. If it works in mode 5 then that's a nice bonus (and probably because it's less work to not disable it, although it may produce worse results in the higher resolutions).

I've been intending to make a tech demo for the SMS where you get a live reticule, the problem is that whatever you show on the screen needs to be bright in order for the gun to work so you can't draw too much on there. A light grey circle on white should be pretty safe though.

Maxim wrote

I've been intending to make a tech demo for the SMS where you get a live reticule, the problem is that whatever you show on the screen needs to be bright in order for the gun to work so you can't draw too much on there. A light grey circle on white should be pretty safe though.

You mean moving the circle while you move the gun toward the TV?
I'm very interested, and we could then add that to the SMS Test Suite to test the light gun sensor and trigger, which would be a handy addition IMHO.

I really like this idea of being able to play Megadrive games with the Light Phaser.

Did you guys know that there are patches for ps1 light gun games that are only compatible with the https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/konami-hyper-blaster-ps... can be patched to work with the guncon? I tried Crypt Killer and it worked perfectly with the guncon. All I am saying is that there is hope. The megadrive game would have to be patched and perhaps an adapter made for the light phaser. I will ask Boojakascha who has, count 'em more than 143 light gun related videos on Youtube:

He responded:
Boojakascha
3 hours ago
Thank you very much, especially for mentioning the channel =)
Maybe there is hope. I used the Light Phaser on the SNES for M.A.C.S. So maybe it can be used for the mega drive too. Personally I would start measuring the nature of the Menacer message with an oscilloscope and compare it to the message of a Light Phaser. Than I would look whether it's compatible by bit shifting and appending as I did in episode 112. Understanding the Menacer message would possibly allow me to built an adapter for the Turbo Gun. Thank you very much for the link. This is very interesting and something I maybe try in the future. Right now perfecting the video output of the Epoch Cassette Vision is higher in priority.

Author	Message
Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	Would a Light Phaser Megadrive/Genesis game be technically possible? Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:30 pm
Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	The Master System has the greatest light gun videography in the history of videogames imho. 13 titles, 13 little gems. The NES couldn't really compare. Now, the generation after that basically dropped the ball with light guns: the scope and the menacer are atrocities in more than one way. However, the MD/Genesis with the Power Base is perfectly compatible with all the 13 light gun SMS titles, even the only one requiring 3D. I always wondered... Since the Menacer was obviously an abomination, could a native Genesis title (imagine for example a 2019 homebrew) support the Light Phaser? Or is there something in the way it works that would prevent this? In other words, could the Light Phaser become a Genesis peripheral??

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 511	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:33 am
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 511	It if it was a Genesis game, it would likely be a Mode 5 (its native mode, that is with the 68k), yes? Is the SMS (Z80) I/O available in that mode? I think I have heard of switching to Mode 4 (SMS) while it is running. Would that allow it to run SMS code (IE to check the gun and store the results in RAM, as I believe the 68k is at the last able to read the Z80's RAM)? It would be something weird like that if it can be done.

Kjell Joined: 27 Nov 2011 Posts: 26	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:54 pm
Kjell Joined: 27 Nov 2011 Posts: 26	Aleste wrote I always wondered... could a native Genesis title support the Light Phaser? Certainly! Here's a demo of the Light Phaser being used on the Genesis as a Wiimote style input device. DC9F1434-87D2-4299-BD1F-82DA6A64C573.gif (4.22 MB) Attachment fairy

Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:11 pm
Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Hey, that demo looks interesting. Some time ago I was wondering if a Ruzzle clone for the Master System could be done by using the light phaser to pick the letters, and it sounded like it was extremely hard bordering on impossible from a theoretical point of view, I wonder if the approach behind that demo could be used for such a project.

Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:49 pm
Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	Kjell wrote Certainly! Here's a demo of the Light Phaser being used on the Genesis as a Wiimote style input device.] Awesome! Therefore for all its lifecycle Genesis developers just overlooked the potential of this light gun. I mean... Bodycount, Revolution X, T2 Arcade and a great chunk of other titles... They could have implemented Light Phaser support?!? If you think to it in this perspective, it's feels really strange, I mean... There must have been a magnitude more Light Phasers out there than Menacers. :D

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 511	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:27 pm
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 511	I can't remember which came first between Menacer and its rival the Super Scope but both now seem like terrible ideas that were very much the '90s BIG AND BAD over-elaborate design. Not sure whether in retrospect it was better that Sega called it quits after the pack-in game. :D

Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:51 pm
Aleste Joined: 20 Sep 2019 Posts: 33 Location: Italy	KingMike wrote I can't remember which came first between Menacer and its rival the Super Scope but both now seem like terrible ideas True. However, the important thing is that an indie developer, someone like Matt Phillips (Tanglewood) or Bitmap Bureau (Xenocrisis) could develop 16-bit, 68000 native shooting games for MD/Genesis by simply relying on the very trustworthy Light Phaser. :) Or someone could hack existing games to add LPH support! Wouldn't this be cool!?

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3827 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:06 am
	KingMike wrote It if it was a Genesis game, it would likely be a Mode 5 (its native mode, that is with the 68k), yes? Is the SMS (Z80) I/O available in that mode? I think I have heard of switching to Mode 4 (SMS) while it is running. Would that allow it to run SMS code (IE to check the gun and store the results in RAM, as I believe the 68k is at the last able to read the Z80's RAM)? It would be something weird like that if it can be done. Video mode has nothing to do with the processor - you can code a game for the MD using the 68k that uses VDP' mode 4 instead of mode 5. But since mode 5 is an evolution of mode 4, I see no point.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14744 Location: London	Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:10 pm
	The light phaser works by having the VDP latch something related to the current pixel horizontal location when it receives a trigger from the right controller pin. That's presumably exposed to both the Z80 and the 68000. They could easily have removed this (and break backwards compatibility) or have had it only work in mode 4. If it works in mode 5 then that's a nice bonus (and probably because it's less work to not disable it, although it may produce worse results in the higher resolutions). I've been intending to make a tech demo for the SMS where you get a live reticule, the problem is that whatever you show on the screen needs to be bright in order for the gun to work so you can't draw too much on there. A light grey circle on white should be pretty safe though.

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3827 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:21 pm
	Maxim wrote I've been intending to make a tech demo for the SMS where you get a live reticule, the problem is that whatever you show on the screen needs to be bright in order for the gun to work so you can't draw too much on there. A light grey circle on white should be pretty safe though. You mean moving the circle while you move the gun toward the TV? I'm very interested, and we could then add that to the SMS Test Suite to test the light gun sensor and trigger, which would be a handy addition IMHO.

D Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Posts: 250 Location: Almere, The Netherlands	Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:51 pm
	I really like this idea of being able to play Megadrive games with the Light Phaser. Did you guys know that there are patches for ps1 light gun games that are only compatible with the https://www.gamespot.com/forums/games-discussion-1000000/konami-hyper-blaster-ps... can be patched to work with the guncon? I tried Crypt Killer and it worked perfectly with the guncon. All I am saying is that there is hope. The megadrive game would have to be patched and perhaps an adapter made for the light phaser. I will ask Boojakascha who has, count 'em more than 143 light gun related videos on Youtube:

D Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Posts: 250 Location: Almere, The Netherlands	Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:36 pm
	He responded: Boojakascha 3 hours ago Thank you very much, especially for mentioning the channel =) Maybe there is hope. I used the Light Phaser on the SNES for M.A.C.S. So maybe it can be used for the mega drive too. Personally I would start measuring the nature of the Menacer message with an oscilloscope and compare it to the message of a Light Phaser. Than I would look whether it's compatible by bit shifting and appending as I did in episode 112. Understanding the Menacer message would possibly allow me to built an adapter for the Turbo Gun. Thank you very much for the link. This is very interesting and something I maybe try in the future. Right now perfecting the video output of the Epoch Cassette Vision is higher in priority.

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