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View topic - Sega AI Computer reverse engineering thread
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  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:38 am
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A little update about the ports:
Reading:
$04: Joypad & Buttons ---- MVrl-RLDU $05: Button & Tape Sensor ---- CHTW-gYPB r: "PR" trigger (named "Point Right" in manual) l: "PL" trigger ("Point Left") RLDU: pad direction B: grey trigger Button near touch panel/pad (named "Touch Button") -- P: touch-sensitive Pad is being pressed Y: touch-sensitive pad coordinate data are readY -- C: CN9 pin 8 H: cassette Head engaged sensor T: cassette Tape insertion sensor W: cassette Write enable sensor M: Microphone sensor (1 = sound detected) V: Voice chip (PD7759C) /BUSY line: 0 when this chip is streaming a sample. g: keyboard pin 3 (see below) -- |
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Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:13 pm
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| fyi Joseph from Gamepres says that old cassettes deteriorate fast on each playback and recommend not playing them too much. | |
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:57 am
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Here are some more overlay and cover scans.
*EDIT 2024* Everything including higher resolution scans and overlays is now available at http://www.smspower.org/SegaAI 
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:43 am
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hi, sorry for the lack of support in the past weeks, but I'm currently transitioning to a new job and to a new apartment and this has left very few chunks of spare time for anything emu-related.
combining this to the frustration of my attempts to improve upd hook up, the net result is that no actual progress have been made at my end however, a couple of replies to earlier questions: 1. concerning tape data, in MESS we usually support .wav files natively. There was some work on supporting FLAC as well, but I think it was never finalized. The main job is anyway to have the emulated system recognize properly the wave form: Judge, have you already taken a look to the routine used by the AI for the tapes? or shall I try to start from scratch? 2. concerning release of the emulation: MESS has lots of partially emulated systems, and it is thus not a problem to have the main tree to include the partially-emulated AI as well, while waiting for the rest of emulation to catch up the main reason we have kept this code private so far, was to ensure that Bock had exclusive coverage of the news when he wants to announce it ;) hence, whenever you guys decide it's time to release the dumps we will be ready to commit the code to MESS I hope to have some news to report next week, if I find some time for MESS coding, but I'm not too positive about it... |
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:51 pm
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Now that we have the roms I'm happy to release the stuff even if it's partially emulated at this point - the main thing is that I thought it'd be nice to release the dumps along with the overlays. It's not much about coverage but mostly make sure what we release something that's correct. At this point we know that the data is correct and gauging if emulation was at our reach, if its worth waiting for better emulation or not. I understand Chris and everyone is busy, it won't matter to wait some more and please guys don't overdo it if you have other things to do.
Another possibility is to just release the stuff we have right now even if some overlays are missing. I could aim for this week-end too. Also, thanks for the new scans Chris :) |
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:43 pm
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Btw I don't see an issue with you committing the code publicly on the mame/mess github, if you think people won't raise an eyebrow that the dumps are not yet available. They should be soon.
Now we just have to make this page suck a little less... http://www.smspower.org/SegaAI Feel free to add/reword contents, or create your own articles here and on your homepages, etc. anything's good. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:33 pm
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How do we interact with the touch surface in MESS?
I have no mouse cursor and not sure how to interact, *EDIT* ok in windowed mode it works! |
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:46 am
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Okay, here are a couple more scans.
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:23 pm
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| Thanks Chris! | |
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:48 am Last edited by Bock on Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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I contacted the Assembler guy who has Sega AI prototypes and might help us get hold of carts/dumps.
"I do have them around somewhere. Any trick to dumping them?" "This item is in a really protected area. I'm clearing out for a move, so I will get to it in a month or so.The cards are actually eprom boards like tg-16. The cartridges remind me of sega SG prototypes I have." |
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:03 pm
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| Hm, interesting. My advice if he doesn't have an AI or want to do finicky stuff with mapper writing/detection is merely to dump the EPROMs directly through a reader. Also, to scan the prototype cards on both sides. | |
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:22 am
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OK I imagine everyone is busy. Let's set a plan to move on.
Plan A) We release - Columbus Map - Ocean Fantasy - Ran Ran Melody - Run Run Music - Cosmic Train Because we have scans of the front and overlays of those five. I would like to add either Cinderella Labyrinth or Arabian Night to that list because both have more complex overlays, but we don't have a front scan for those. Emulation can go public, less trouble for anyone involved. And we'll work on releasing the rest later as soon as we have front + overlay scans (the full scan including manuals can be done later). Plan B) Release all the data without the missing scans. Chris: Joseph says he got his scanning equipment back and may some in the following weeks, perhaps arrange something with him for the software? I absolutely suck at making webpages. http://www.smspower.org/SegaAI/Index What i'll do is to add the scans in the existing smspower website architecture to save on trouble and take screenshots from MESS. I just need to figure out how to get non-scaled non-altered screenshots from MESS bit I imagine it is possible. http://www.smspower.org/SegaAI/Index |
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Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:43 pm
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Sorry about the lack of scans! I'll throw some more up.
A few more to go... 
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:55 pm
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| I'm struggling to classify the scans, are these box art or manual covers we have above (and elsewhere)? When I see "Inst" in the filename I think it's the latter, when I don't..? Overlays I can figure out. | |
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:38 pm
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| Each box is a little bit too large for my scanner -- and some are wrinkled and bent besides. The front covers of the instruction manuals look identical to the boxes, so I scanned them. | |
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 7:06 am
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I think these should be the last of the overlay / instruction cover scans.
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:38 am
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Thanks.
I have gathered them in a folder. - Arabian Night cover appears to be missing. - Of the Eigo Wonder School series we have a cover for "Folks & Fairy Tales" and "Popo's Adventure". It is unclear from the auction pictures what else there is seems like there is a little pile. No overlay scans. |
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Enikki
Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:41 am
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There is another ongoing auction
And the seller is showing a screenshot of AI Enikki the diary software. http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r128295958 以前セガの営業の方から4台もらいました。幻のゲーム機です。
2台は知人に譲り、1台はオークションにて使用品で98000円で落札されましたのでこれがラストです。 貰った時に新品と聞きました。パネルにキズも無いので未使用かと思います。 古い物なのでヤケ・擦り傷・汚れ・小傷・テープ跡ありますが、未使用美品かと思います。カセット部も未使用の様でテープついたままです（テープ跡もあり）。 未使用でしたが古い物なので出品にあたり、できる限りの動作チェックしました。カセットプレーヤー、サウンドボックスのチェックはしていません。付属のソフト（aiえにっき）でゲームできました。（写真参照） 付属品は写真の物が全てです。写っていないものは欠品（おそらく全て揃っているかと思います）です。 中古で10万～16万位で取引されています。 
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:14 am
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I have started to add the game infos to the site
http://www.smspower.org/Games/AI http://www.smspower.org/Games-Releases/AI-JP They are not linked anywhere but anyone looking at the wiki history would see them. Please feel free to commit / make the code public We'll try to release the dumps shortly. We still need to link the scans so they appear from the game page, and prepare logos & screenshots, then add the dumps. |
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:07 pm
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OK, here is Arabian Night. The Folk & Fairy Tales & Popo's come with two MyCards and two cassette tapes each, instruction manuals, and a large poster (A4 x 4 size). I haven't scanned the posters since they're larger than my scanner, of course. These titles don't use an overlay; just the joypad and buttons. 
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 5:00 pm
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Thanks, superb!
I'm recompiling MESS now in order to make screenshots (seems like the build system changed quite a bit since they merged MAME/MESS so I'm not sure how to get an AI only tiny build) |
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:43 am
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Getting back on this; it's been a while! I'll work further on making the page more visual and preparing of more data.
I think we have got a big story here, it could be covered in many places and it would be worth getting better footage. I added Frank Cifaldi (lostlevels.org & http://gamepreservation.tumblr.com/), to this thread, as he is pointing it out "I think any time a cool piece of game history is saved, it should be used to market the concept of saving video game history" I've been holding on this for so long for being unable to get better footage. Ideally we'd want nice photographs of the system, video footage, etc. If we don't have those, we can still release but we'd really been missing out on an opportunity. Chris would you mind taking some wider pictures of the system? The close-up pictures you took were very good and useful, we'd just need similar pictures that shows more of it. Maybe a pictures with various games, manuals, boxes layed around that could become our "main" picture. How does the packaging looks like, the Wonder School box set, etc. It would also be great if you could take video footage of the machine booting, playing some games. If for some reason it's not possible, we will try to find someone around Tokyo who could take the unit and work further on those stuff. Thanks a lot, again. |
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:25 am
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Hey, thanks for inviting me.
I was just telling Omar that I think getting some simple off-screen footage of the games working (especially if any are particularly interesting or silly) could manage to attract attention, if we think it's worthwhile to attract attention. If nothing else, it might be nice to get attention to the fact that we don't have the keyboard or hardware manual, in case there are any kind patrons out there. Anyway, I think some polish to the SMS Power page explaining the current state of emulation, what's missing, etc. and a 5-ish minute compilation video of gameplay is all that's really needed. Chris, do you feel up to capturing some video? Direct feed would be great if you can do it but I don't think it makes a difference for this specific purpose, just pointing a cell phone at a TV would be fine. |
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:52 pm
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| Hi, I don't have any decent video capture equipment, but I can point my camera at a TV and take some footage. The photos of the whole system would be no problem, but I don't have a black velvet bedsheet or anything like that to take studio-style pictures. :-) | |
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:57 pm
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That's cool. It doesn't have to be studio-quality pictures :)
It'll just be nice to see the whole thing in general, the packaging, the games, give an understanding of what an AI setup may look like in general (even I don't know at this point). |
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:22 pm
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| I really don't think it matters, especially if emulation is being worked on. | |
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Cards pinouts
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:50 am
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Do you know how those access translates to the AI card pinouts? There's 35 pins like the original Sega My Cards but the later don't have a line for A15/A16. How is the full A0000-BFFFF range accessed on a AI card? |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:53 am
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Message from Chris who recorded a nice 12 minutes video (still private). Thanks a lot Chris!
" Hi! Well, after a couple long months, I finally had some time at home alone, so I took out the AI system and shot a video from my camera. You can check out the private video here: One worrying thing that I noticed... in the games that use the cassette player, they start up the tape to play, but tape playback always stops after 2 seconds or so. I don't know when or why this happened. Anyway, I'll also see if I can trace the pinout of the AI cards sometime soon. " A kid buying "Wine" at 8:10. Good kindergarten teaching Sega. Yeah that's bit worrying :( If you still have the stuff around and some time could you take some general pictures of the hardware and games boxes, what's inside the AI box, manuals (no detail needed). Thanks again! |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:19 pm
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| Yeah, the 3 options available in France, which is itself a restaurant, are Escargot, Ichigo Tarte, and Wine. And after selling wine to what looks like a 4-year-old, he asks me if my belly is full yet. On wine. | |
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:29 pm
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OK, here's a quick continuity test on the card port:
Differences between SMS Mycard and AI Mycard
3 "/MREQ" N/C (?) 5 "/M8-B" to 315-5200 pin 69, also to MPR-7689 and $E000 EPROM pin 22, "/OE", and to EXP Conn pin A12 11 "/M0-7" to 315-5200 pin 70 13 "/CE" to 315-5200 pin 71 20 not GND but N/C (?) 34 "/CONT" only to EXP Conn pin B27 |
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:20 am
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An update: AI Mycard pin 11 seems to correspond directly to V20 A15.
Mycard pin 5 might correspond to V20 A17 (some of the time...) Mycard pins 3 and 20 really do appear to be not connected/active. |
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:41 pm
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I have bought a second Sega AI lot for 82000 yens (~$676+shipping) to obtain the missing software and manuals.
Not really sure what to do with the spare, ideally I would sell it but considering that the first unit was acquired partly with donations it would perhaps appear dodgy if I sold a Sega AI unless I reimbursed all donators? If you have any idea let me know. So this mean hopefully Chris can borrow the Oekaki software from Joseph in Japan to dump it, and the manuals can be scanned. |
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Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:29 pm
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| Okay, send the Oekaki my way, or tell Joseph to come and see me once in a while; I'm lonely. ;-D | |
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Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:48 pm
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Attached dump of the newly acquired software.
Chris: Hi, Guys. Here is the dump of E-Nikki. It seems to run OK, but need a Hiragana overlay for the touchpad (where the user does writing).
Awaiting for joseph to scan the overlay. That's the second lot I bought: http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r128295958 |
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Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:02 pm
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And here is the overlay scan for Enikki courtesy of Joseph.
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Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:42 pm
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After some time consuming real life things, including an emigration, I am finally getting back into this.
The old code is now updated to compile with the last version of the mame codebase. The branch that I'm working on can be found here: https://github.com/wilbertpol/mame/tree/sega_ai I am currently testing and cleaning up the changes and I'm aiming to get the branch merged for this or next month's MAME release (depending on issues found during testing, cleanups, etc) |
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 9:30 am
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This is perfect, thank you very much.
I was hoping to get back to it too it (will have more time soon) and schedule a release of the roms. Are MAME ok to incorporate code for yet unreleased dumps or would you prefer to wait a little extra? I may be able to buy/negotiate more Sega AI games from a contact in Japan. With Frank we would also like to run this into a nice little story. |
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:53 am
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In MAME we only include available dumps. I am perfectly fine with waiting until the dumps have been properly released.
If you want to play with the driver you should be able to clone my repo, switch to the sega_ai branch and do a tiny build: make DEBUG=1 SYMBOLS=1 -j3 SUBTARGET=segaai SOURCES=src/mame/drivers/segaai.cpp
I do have a question regarding Eigo de Game and Eigo de Ohanashi: these were software titles that included 2 cartridges and 1 tape? If so, then I should update the software list to reflect that; right now each cartridge is listed as a separate software title. |
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Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:54 am
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2 cards and 2 tapes each, see the packaging: http://www.smspower.org/forums/files/600x450_2014091000006_163.jpg http://www.smspower.org/forums/files/600x450_2014091000009_189.jpg This is me trying to lay out and sort the information last year (you should have access to this page hopefully) http://www.smspower.org/SegaAI/Index I'd be happy to wait a little for the dumps since the deal for the remaining cards has been tough and I don't have them yet and Japanese people are often a little strange with their perception of emulation. If Sega AI is in the news he might suddenly decide to double price or something. Last year the guy who owned them literally said he would only sell them to me if I gave him an exclusive publishing deal for my game in Japan, but I convinced him since that it was bonkers. It's totally fine that the code is public (either in a branch either in master and disabled or whatever based on your own policy). Btw as I forgot to post above but I've brought 1 of the system and most of the software back home in Paris so I have them with me. Another system and some bits are left in Japan (they were very huge/heavy). Will try to get a mule to bring them. |
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:01 pm
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Thanks for the information.
It does indeed sound wise to wait a while until the other software is acquired. The branch is in my own clone of the MAME repository; I assume there are very few people, if any, looking at that. The main repo gets all the attention. It doesn't even show up in google (yet). |
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:56 pm
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I have now obtained a handful of Sega AI cards (with manual and overlay but no boxes).
Among them interestingly there are 2 variations of the Diary (絵日記）card, one dated 1986, one dated 1989... Need to figure out how to dump them now (Chris sent me the dumping software, need to wire a few stuff and burn an EPROM, problem is I don't have an EPROM eraser anymore! But I'll figure it out eventually). Question: given the Sega AI card pinout http://www.smspower.org/forums/15244-SegaAIComputerReverseEngineeringThread?star... Could I perhaps use a SMS Reader with a card catcher if some addressing pins were re-routed? Currently If I read 64 KB with my smsreader from e.g. Cinderella (used a known game to test) it currently reads as: Game data 0x10000..0x13FFF (16 kb) correct Game data 0x14000..0x17FFF (16kb) correct Game data 0x04000..0x07FFF (16kb) correct ~ sometimes unknown/instable data Game data 0x1C000..0x1FFFF (16 kb) correct)
So I could potentially manipulate Pin 11/A15. Would Pin 5 "M8-B" on SMS affect the third 16-kb range? *EDIT* With this setup I am able to dump the games that have a mapper register such as: Ocean Fantasy, Arabian Night, Eigo de Ohanashi. Will try that on the new software first. |
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New dumps
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:09 pm
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Hello,
Thanks to Chris research and Charles help (who made me an easy to hack card adapter I could use for this and other projects), I have managed to dump 8 new cards! While I have access to everything I have also redumped and confirmed every of Chris's dumps. Attached are two ZIP file - one with the new dumps - one with all dumps so far The new dumps are: AI Enikki [1986] Hanamaru Aiueo (AI-4201) Henshin Kanji (AI-4203) Okeiko Aiueo (AI-4201) Pinpon Music Melody (AI-8003) Pinpon Music Rhythm (AI-8002) Pinpon Numbers (AI-8001) Waku Waku ABC to 123 (AI-4202) Notes: - There are _two_ distinct versions of AI Enikki (visual diary software), one dated 1986 and one dated 1989. You can see them here: http://www.smspower.org/forums/files/sega_ai_enikki_178.jpg Needless to say it is incredibly odd that a computer so obscure and unknown would have software spanning those 3 years... but all the other software are labelled with various years in this timespan. One theory I have (note: THIS IS A MADE UP THEORY) is that Sega had a contract with schools to support the system for xx years and they delivered those software to honor their contract, then quietly closed down the project. - Chris older dump for "AI Enikki" has been renamed to "AI Enikki [1989]". - The 1986 version of AI Enikki uses less data, I have trimmed the file to 96 KB as when reading the last 32KB it was returning the same data as the 64KB-96KB range. - Okeiko Aiueo and Hanamaru Aiueo are bundled together and have the same product (AI-4201). The manual says "おけいこ・はなまる あいうえお" (Okeiko/Hanamaru AIUEO). I don't have the box for it. - "Henshin Kanji" and "Waku Waku ABC to 123" are 256 KB and use a mapper, because of that I could dump them earlier using regular SMS dumping hardware. The others are 128 KB, contiguously addressed. - Remember that the Eigo de Game and Eigo de Hanashi series comes with audio tapes. They should have been send to you a while ago, let me know if you don't have them. Eigo de Game 1 - Popo no Yume (Tape).flac
Eigo de Game 2 - Popoland no Himitsu (Tape).flac Eigo de Ohanashi 1 (Tape Side A).flac Eigo de Ohanashi 1 (Tape Side B).flac Eigo de Ohanashi 2 (Tape Side A).flac Eigo de Ohanashi 2 (Tape Side B).flac They are about 60 MB each. - AI mycard pinouts: Pin 11 is A15 Pin 5 is A16 In an earlier post Chris says "Mycard pin 5 might correspond to V20 A17 (some of the time...)" Will those progress being made, I will try to get the stuff scanned. Hopefully this will bump interest in the MESS driver? |
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Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:44 am
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| I seem to be missing the tape dump for Eigo de Ohanashi 2. Do you still have those somewhere? | |
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Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:19 pm
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Send me a email address associated to a dropbox account and I'll share it for you. |
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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:43 pm
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I managed to do some more work on the MAME driver. After figuring out how the irq handling works and how the Sega AI interacts with the switching of modes of the uPD7759 speech is finally working as it should.
There is no more speech when the driver starts up and games work using both modes. Gulliver Pocket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vex1Ttha5M Eigo de Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OumrAO86mgA The latest code can be found here: https://github.com/wilbertpol/mame/tree/sega_ai2 It's reasonably up to date with the current MAME tree. I/O ports 16 and 17 are used to enable or disable interrupt sources. It seems IRQ edge triggers are used in stead of the regular level based triggers. Any writes to I/O port 14 indeed seem to trigger the ST input on the uPD7759, but only if the uPD7759 is configured for standalone mode. |
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Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 7:15 pm
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Very nice. jdg what do you feel is missing to make this driver releasable, assuming we release all the dumps (+ new scans) ?
How do you remember tape dumps to be released? |
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Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2022 9:33 pm
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It is still unknown how the interfacing with the tape works; I have not been able to figure that out yet. This part is important for a couple of the games. I would really like to get that part working as well.
Also the touchpad emulation is not really full touchpad emulation. MAME has no way to support that yet. I have divided the area into smaller clickable sections which seems to work for most games, but this of course does not work for free style drawing. |
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:41 pm
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I managed to convince someone (after a long while) to sell me a batch of a dozen software, most of them seeming like like earlier variations of the software we have. Should receive them this month.
There's a plot twist: many of them appears to be Tape/Cassette only, despite looking like the same software as the one we have on card. I am not sure I understand if a tape can encode e.g. the 128 KB of Alice World, and not even sure I understand how they could be booted. Would be good to resume work on this and I am ready to help if there is a way we can facilitate progress. I was wondering if we should make a public release of all the dumps FIRST, to encourage work on emulation, but I worried it would means much less people would try them on emulation (compared to if we released roms and working emulators for an "unknown" sega system at the same time). |
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 9:39 pm
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Ah, the boot screen when no card is plugged says: カセットかカードをいれてからでんげんスイーチをいれてね。 ~ Plug a cassette OR a card and then turn power on. So even though none of the current software we dumped are seemingly booting from cassette, the system can do it. Have of our 4 cassette dumps have leading data before storing audio, with very little data, and use 1 channel for voice and 1 channel for data. Perhaps the leading data is a signal for the boot ROM to request showing an instruction message. 
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Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 11:25 pm
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Those instruction doesn't seem to work anymore (at least with https://github.com/wilbertpol/mame/commits/sega_ai2 branch). For future reference under Windows I ended up doing: make vs2019 SUBTARGET=tiny REGENIE=1
After modifying tiny.lua to add the BUSES[] and drivers file copied from mess.lua. Don't know if that's the official way to do this. It seems to mostly compile of however getting modern C++ hell compile errors in <future> when included frontend infoxml.cpp, tried a few things including an update of VS and different versions/toolsets and gave up since this a fairly old branch. As per your e-mail I'll see if you can rebase the Sega AI related changes on a recent versions before trying again. |
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