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View topic - Phantasy Star retranslation update beta test

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  • Joined: 29 Jun 1999
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:16 am
Some spelling errors, not sure if they known already.

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:08 am
The first one is a typo: https://github.com/maxim-zhao/psrp/blob/master/psrp/script.txt#L391 but the second is a garbage pointer, can you give me a save file (SRAM or save state) for where it is?

The pause crash - I’ll debug.
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:33 pm
Maxim wrote
The first one is a typo: https://github.com/maxim-zhao/psrp/blob/master/psrp/script.txt#L391 but the second is a garbage pointer, can you give me a save file (SRAM or save state) for where it is?

The pause crash - I’ll debug.


I didn't get a save state for that error, sorry. I got a new one though, attached is the save for it, from retroarch. Just walk in into the house.

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Post Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:11 pm
Damn this is awesome! I made myself a cartridge with the previous translation on it, no doubt I will update it as soon as possible!

Regarding the music menu placement, wouldn't it be nicer to have it on the left? Presumably one would stare at it for a while, and I think it would be nicer to see a picture of Alis instead of half of a title.
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:30 am
While the game does occasionally resort to weird positions, mostly the menus go left to right. I think it’d be a bit weird to put it on the left.
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stats bug
Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:45 am
Hello, first of all big thanks for your work. Really appreciate it.

But there is something that bothers me: on stats screen defense always equals attack. It only changes with weapon upgrades and not with new armor. You can test it very quickly at beginning of the game with Alis, but other party members suffer from this too.

I'm close to the end with all Laconian items found plus all "easy" options on max so i don't know if it is really broken or not, because i didn't have so much trouble with monsters and bosses. So maybe it is just a visual glitch.

Besides stats i have nothing to complain about, the game just works and have zero crashes or freezes so far.
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:52 am
It's just a dumb bug, easy to fix.
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:53 am
I love this idea, and I know translations can be up to interpretation (Aeris/Aerith), but I really wish Lassic stayed the same instead of LaShiec, and for my money... I'd like Tyron over Tylon, but thats just my $0.02.

Those nigglings aside, you've got some serious skills and I look forward to eventually writing this to an EPROM and soldering into a Japanese Cart to play in full glory!
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:49 pm
This new simple hack for Phantasy Star appeared, What do you think?



http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5029/
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:04 am
I may see if I can make it optional...
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:57 am
Wow! Astounding that this is still being worked on!

Maxim wrote
I may see if I can make it optional...

You have my permission to use it for sure.

I'm sorry to barge in here making suggestions out of the blue. I truly do consider this retranslation the "definitive edition" of Phantasy Star I--yes, even over Phantasy Star Generation:1, which I worked on--so I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes.

So, I had a question. Would it be possible to retain the original spell names like I did in Phantasy Star Generation:1? I have a list of what everything is except for the translate magics. Those I would need to see the romaji for.

Bye .... Lucsta (Rakkusuta)
Chat ... ??? (doesn't exist in PSGEN1)
Cure ... Doheal (Dohiiru)
Exit ... Surto (Suruto; this one is hard to choose a spelling for)
Fly .... Tolupa (Toruupa)
Heal ... Heal (Hiiru)
Help ... Powma (Pauma; changed this one slightly so it has Pow as in Power)
Open ... Mwode (Muoode; Muorde or Mworde would be valid, too)
Prot ... Mawarla (Muwaara; I also fudged this one intentionally so it was more like Magic-Warla)
Rise ... Rebirth (Ribaasu)
Rope ... Bindwa (Bindowa)
Tele ... ??? (doesn't exist in PSGEN1)
Terr ... Telele (Tereru)
Thun ... Tandre (Tandore)
Trap ... Rapt (Raputto)
Wall ... Warla (Waara)
Wind ... Hewn (Hyuun)


In the same vein, I think an alternate patch (or option, if it's feasible) that uses canon spell names (Though expanded as necessary, like Terr to Terror and Tele to Telepathy) and character names would be cool, but not a necessity. I'd be willing to put in my share of work on a potential fork for sure. I don't intend to freeload. I also do respect you for deciding to stick to your vision, if you're adverse to the idea.

Also, "Tylon" is supposed to be Tyrone, as far as we could tell. That's how Kyence translated it in PSGEN2 at least, so I tried to stay consistent. I'm not sure if a six-letter name is doable for you as the game is right now, or if you even want to deviate from what's been established.

The last suggestion I have is regarding the font. Because there isn't any space between most line breaks anymore, the hanging characters will blend into a full-length character (such as a capital letter or a lowercase L), which is unattractive and hard to read. This is something I had to consider for the Sailor Moon: Another Story fan translation, which had much the same problem.

Notice how the "g" of "Village" blends into the "l" of "Vehicle" in the first image.

No such problem with the hanging characters raised, as in the second image.

Ideally, the font would look like the third image for readability's sake.

Thanks for your time. Let me know if you need any script help. I love this series so much and I would love to be of some use to you all.
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:08 am
Some of those things are harder than others... and some are just choices in the translation style. For this one, the goal is to make the best translation we can. That means we don’t necessarily want to be driven by the bad/compromising decisions made in later translations, spell names being one of those. There are discussions elsewhere about how to deal with spell names, for example.

Each time I want to make something optional I need to find some way to add a branch to the code and store the state in memory, and add menu items to make it selectable. So far I haven’t tried to put any of this in the save RAM, which would constrain it more. So it’s a bit tricky to add too much here.

As for the shifted hanging characters... I personally find that much uglier than occasional joins onto ascenders.
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:35 pm
Alright, I understand. Thank you so much for your quick response.

As for the spell names, I only suggested those because the ones used right now aren't accurate to what the Japanese version uses (Fureei, Rakkusuta, etc.), as you might remember from discussions during the initial retranslation development. I don't think the spell names need to be an option, necessarily, but a change outright. (Flaeli, Bindwa, Hewn, etc. do have precedence in the official localization of Phantasy Star IV, at the very least.)

Trust me, I do understand that "best" doesn't always mean "accurate," but you have to keep in mind that the retranslation is primarily being aimed at Phantasy Star fans in the first place who will understand what these spells mean. Changing Flaeli to Fire might make sense for a quick understanding but it isn't accurate and it's a wholesale change of lore terms. But that's my personal philosophy, which isn't relevant to your vision.

Regarding the font, I'm surprised you find the raised hanging characters uglier than characters blending in. It happens quite often in Phantasy Star I, and it definitely makes text harder to read and looks pretty unprofessional; an out-of-place blemish on an otherwise professional translation.

My offer stands if you want someone to work with the text at all. I'm diligent, accurate, and work fast. I'm not exactly a leader in the ROM hacking scene, but at the very least I do have moderately received experience with what I have produced. (Phantasy Star Generation:1 T-Eng v2.10, Phantasy Star II Improvement, Sailor Moon: Another Story T-Eng v2.04, Project II: Final Fantasy IV to name a few, if anyone is familiar with those.)

Thanks for your time.

Edit - Sorry, I just realized the last paragraph sounds like bragging. I apologize. I'm just trying to show my past experience akin to a job application; I am trying to sell myself as an available option, after all. I apologize if I'm presenting myself as pushy right now. I'm more than content to sit back on the sidelines and wait patiently for the new release.

Regardless of what is decided, you have my express permission to incorporate Brunette Alis in some way if you want. Otherwise, it's compatible and people can apply it separately.
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The missing descenders break the visual shape of words and makes them harder to read. It feels like something you see in Japanese-developed games where they lack the familiarity with Roman text. It gives me an impression of the text baseline being uneven. I think the collisions are the least worst option compared to squishing to 8x7, raising descenders and lowering ascenders.

For the item, enemy and spell names, how do we decide what is the "original"? I don't think official translations are necessarily a good source, considering the reason for this project in the first place - we want to do a better job. The original spell name discussion is at https://www.smspower.org/forums/9312-PhantasyStarSpellNames and we can continue in there.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:59 am
Alright, thanks. I've posted in there appropriately. I wholeheartedly disagree about the font but I won't press the issue any further.

Again, I would like to thank you for your time regarding these matters. I patiently await the next update of the beta.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:55 am
Last edited by MandrasX on Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
I noticed its been four months since a commit and I wanted to fix that Defense display error and address a few things in the script for my own personal use.

--Fixed the Defense as Attack display bug in Stats Menu
--The text at Suelo's (the free inn at Camileet) prints completely without any extra button pressing (get to sleep faster).
--Fixed typo at [4c40] Motvaia --> Motavia
--Other small script adjustments aimed mainly at fixing some problematic lines; documented completely in the README


Just a small guide for anyone who wants to mess with things and compile the source themselves:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Download and install Microsoft VS 2019; checkmark the optional C++ build tools when installing.

Download WLA DX v9.10 at wwwvillehelincom/wla-win32html (can't post direct link)

Place the wlalink and wla-z80 executables in the souce code directory ( psrp-master\psrp).

Open the psrp-master\psrp\MAKEFILE in notepad++ and make sure these lines near the top point to the right places:

EMU = "mekaw\mekaw.exe" // emulator; can be commented out
WLAZ80 = "wla-z80.exe"
WLALINK = "wlalink.exe"
FLIPS = "FLIPS\Flip Files\flips.exe" // point this to the IPS patcher
PSJ = ps1-j.sms // this is the unmodified PS1 rom; needs to be placed in psrp-master\psrp by default

Open a "Native x86 Tools Command for VS 2019" command line from Start menu. NOTE: don't use the x64 version of this command line, it will throw a warning concerning data loss between 32-64bit environments when converting 'size_t' to 'int' and abort the compile.

In the Command Line:

Type the drive letter the source code directory is located on (example: X:)

Type: cd [the exact location of MAKEFILE in psrp-master\psrp]

To compile, type: NMAKE

Look for three files that have been created in srp-master\psrp:
ps1jert.sms ; prepatched rom
ps1jert.bps ; patches
ps1jert.ips

Notable files for plain text editing (you can edit these, save and recompile the changes freely; the three files above are overwritten each time):
script.txt // all printed text and NPC dialogues
ps1jert.sms.asm // all text strings: character, enemy, item names
menu_creater/menu.txt // all menu commands, spell names, character names as they appear in menus
ps1_SMS_2.0beta_tweaks_04-01-2020.7z (166.35 KB)
IPS, BPS patch + modified source files

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:12 am
Can you submit a PR? As you might imagine, I've been a bit distracted by https://www.smspower.org/Translations/GameDeCheckKoutsuuAnzen-SMS-EN but I'm back on this now.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:09 pm
Wall and Prot aren't the same, actually. Wall protects against phys and Prot protects against phys and mag, apparently.

Edit - Really not a fan of the "throwbacks" to the original localization either. It should be whole hog one way or the other.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:49 pm
vivify93 wrote
Wall and Prot aren't the same, actually. Wall protects against phys and Prot protects against phys and mag, apparently.

Edit - Really not a fan of the "throwbacks" to the original localization either. It should be whole hog one way or the other.


Yeah, I only posted this because I was very very bored.

Other than fixing the Defense display thing, I think streamlining those two lines of text in Seulo's house could save alot of tedium/button pressing considering how often a player might return there for free health restore.

Too bad I didn't know about this a couple days ago when I played the v1.2 one on romhacking.net. The redesigned menus and stuff with this beta are really nice. With your Brunette Alis patch it will be the final word unless someone manages to cobble together an external gui automapper to match the Sega Ages version; sort of like the AD&D gold box Gold Box Companion.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:30 pm
This is pretty cool, though. Hey, how would one go about changing the font? It looks like it requires an indexed bitmap saved as PNG but I'm not sure what the requirements are.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:46 pm
There's a lot of space to streamline text since expanding the dialogue window, it's a matter of changing things and testing them.

The font is just a PNG file, just edit it in a editor that doesn't change the palette.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:05 pm
I'm guessing Paint changes the palette, then. Which is a shame, because when push comes to shove it's great for pixel work.

Edit 1 - That or Paint is changing the file size out of acceptable parameters? It's originally 565 bytes but saves into 1,104 bytes. Not sure what to do there.

Edit 2 - It was the file size but the palette is definitely being changed beyond the inserter's readability. It shows up as black and sky color in-game. More to do.

Edit 3 - I got it to work. Thanks!
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:53 pm
I've pushed changes for some of the things mentioned above - Defense bug, script typos, build warnings in x64, spell name case. Frank is looking over the script suggestions now :) so I won't take the PR as-is but I will try to add some credit.
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 pm
Merged in some of the script suggestions from MandrasX to the main branch. Some notes on things I didn't merge:

- As I'm not a translator, I have never messed with any of the proper nouns, i.e. monster and spell names (other than insisting we change "Dark Phallus" 15 years ago because, uh,), so I didn't merge any of those in.

- As the goal of the project was to restore original intent, I did not merge any changes that were trying to restore pieces from the official localization, i.e. the line about Noah calling himself Odin.

- Even if it meant a line I didn't like as much, for this overhaul to the script we did 15 years ago, I made sure that any clue or piece of information in the Japanese original was conveyed. So for example, with this request:

; Please get some rest. Your brother would be proud of you. But don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.
Please rest. Your brother would be proud of you, but don’t overdo it, okay?

I did not make the change, because in the original game Suelo makes it clear that you can come back to heal anytime. I didn't want to lose that.

Other than the above I merged most of the tone suggestions etc., thanks for putting another set of eyes on this!
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:55 pm
TheRedEye wrote
Merged in some of the script suggestions from MandrasX to the main branch. Some notes on things I didn't merge:

- As I'm not a translator, I have never messed with any of the proper nouns, i.e. monster and spell names (other than insisting we change "Dark Phallus" 15 years ago because, uh,), so I didn't merge any of those in.

- As the goal of the project was to restore original intent, I did not merge any changes that were trying to restore pieces from the official localization, i.e. the line about Noah calling himself Odin.

- Even if it meant a line I didn't like as much, for this overhaul to the script we did 15 years ago, I made sure that any clue or piece of information in the Japanese original was conveyed. So for example, with this request:

; Please get some rest. Your brother would be proud of you. But don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.
Please rest. Your brother would be proud of you, but don’t overdo it, okay?

I did not make the change, because in the original game Suelo makes it clear that you can come back to heal anytime. I didn't want to lose that.

Other than the above I merged most of the tone suggestions etc., thanks for putting another set of eyes on this!


Yes, some of them were iffy, ha.

If only that Suelo line could be shortened somehow so it doesn't require extra button pressing to start resting while also retaining the meaning, it would be nice...

Also I found those two pointer errors/garbled text:

[DishonestDezorianFix]
; Dishonest Dezorian
; コノムラハ ソピァト イイマス.
; The neighboring villagers are all liars. Be careful.
; [1E7]
The neighboring villagers lie. Really!

In v1.02 it says "Those guys in the other village are all liars. For real." In the beta is it messed up.

[5524]
; Villager (in the cave next to Bortevo)
; [10A]
; アビオンノ ムラニ ポリメテラ-ル
; The drug store in Abion sells Polymeteral, I hear.
The drug store in Avion Village sells Polymeteral.

What he says in 1.02 "I've heard they sell a chemical called Polymeteral in Avion village." Also currently messed up.
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Post Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:58 pm
As for the Suelo line, perhaps something like this?

Please rest here
anytime. Nero would be
proud of you, but don't
overdo it, okay?


It's a little odd to read her say that as if it's your first time, multiple times per playthrough. I also understand it implies Suelo has familiarity with Alisa and Nero that doesn't necessarily otherwise exist. But it's I think it's concise, and it fits in four lines.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:42 am
Nice call, substituting "Nero" for "your brother" actually cuts just enough out fit most of the original line as-is:


Please get some rest. Your brother would be proud of you. But don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.
Please rest. Nero would be proud of you, but don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.

But the shorter the better because you still have to wait for the text to print before it lets you get to sleep: for example if I put just "Please rest." its a near instantaneous transition.

Current (too long for single 4 line text printing)
Please get some rest. Your brother would be proud of you. But don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.

Short enough:
Please rest. Nero would be proud of you, but don’t overdo it, okay?
Please rest. Your brother would be proud of you, but don’t overdo it, okay?
Please rest here anytime. Nero would be proud of you, but don't overdo it, okay?
Please rest. Nero would be proud of you, but don't overdo it, okay Come back anytime.
Please rest. Nero would be proud of you, but don't overdo it, okay? Come back here anytime.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:58 am
I like the fourth option best out of those.
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:25 pm
So here's the Alisa sprites extracted. I think the brown pixels are quite deliberate, similar to the use of pale yellow on her legs, so I'm not sure about replacing them. Do you have a PNG version of the Brunette patch? I'm thinking about how best to swap them out, given the way they're streamed from ROM...
alisa.png (1.14 KB)
alisa.png

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:09 am
Oh for sure. You don't have to replace the brown pixels at all. I know it sounds weird, but I only did that because I wanted brown to only be for her hair.

I actually just went in Rambo-style straight up with a tile editor, so I whipped you this up in Paint.
Untitled.png (2.39 KB)
Untitled.png

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:11 am
Hmm, I think there’s some tweaking to do on the black lines which generally, but not always, are only on the outer edges... There also a darker brown but this lighter one matches the other graphics better.

Edit: attached my version with mostly retained brown dots and less black lines.
alisa.png (1.18 KB)
alisa.png

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:21 pm
Looks good for the most part. The only issue I see is that I think she needs a couple of black pixels for defining her hair a bit better on her forward-facing frames, like in this NPC sprite.

Edit 1 - Attached an example. I may've still been too harsh with the black lines. Also removed some outlining from her hair in her side-facing sprites that remained in your change.

Edit 2 - Random thought, someone should try getting petrified to see if that message is appearing OK. I forgot all about it and had the Shield of Perseus already when I ran up to face Medusa.

Other rare text instances I can't test this playthrough:

- Facing LaShiec without Damoa's Crystal
- Grabbing Laerma Berries without the Laconian Pot (I found a typo in the script: "<player> picked up some Laerma Berries, but they shrivled up immediately!<wait>" should be "shriveled")
- Trying to get the Eclipse Torch with no Carbunckle Eye (Why is it carbunckle and not carbuncle, btw?)
ps1jert000.png (931 B)
ps1jert000.png
sdfsdf.png (2.39 KB)
sdfsdf.png

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:31 am
It's easy to remove items from the inventory if you have saves in the right places. I believe there are paths in the script that are difficult or impossible to reach though?

I have no idea why it's Carbunckle...

Brunette Alisa is now done, by the way.
ps1jert-38.png (9.2 KB)
ps1jert-38.png
ps1jert-40.png (8.61 KB)
ps1jert-40.png

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:00 pm
Wow! Most impressive!

I retranslated the previous version of your PS to brazilian portuguese, and, I faced a lot of struggke:
--- fonts don't have latin characters: â, ã, â, á, à, é, í, ô, õ, ó, ú, ç (that's enough for portuguese). Other languages asks for more, like spanish (ex: ñ, ¿).
So, in order to retranslate it I had to sacrifice minor capital letters... Can latin ketters be included? 🙏
--- The previous version had a limition of articles use (the, a, an, some). Some itens only accepted certain articles, like "the flute". Could you remove this limitation? I will tell you why: latin languages uses a lot of articles because major substantives have gender version of it. So, a male word needs a male article and so on. I had to transform the "the, a, an, some" articles to "a (the female) , o (the male) , um (one male) , uma (one female) ".
If you could remove this article limitation, I could work easily by changing articles. 🙏
--- Bug1: There are two houses at air castle garden whose old men don't speak at all! Their text seemed to be transfered to shadow monster dialog.
--- Bug2: After the use of Alis' hint magic (or Noah's telepathy), the text of the monster goes a little crazy at the final of the battle.

Thank you all!
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:13 pm
I am looking at further translations as part of this project but it's not the primary focus. So I will be looking at extending the alphabet - although the tile count is very limiting, which can be helped either by losing lowercase or by avoiding some letters in the script - the English script has no uppercase "J", "X" or "Z", for example. There is room for exactly 70 tiles for text; you may also gain a bit more by re-using tiles flipped, but it makes the font hard to handle.

The articles are relatively easy to extend. I have plans to work on an enhancement to WLA DX to support UTF-8 text to support this as otherwise old-fashioned regional encodings are necessary.

Some menus may also need to be enlarged; this is possible but hard work, I spent hours on arranging the English menus to exactly fit what is needed.

The old men bug is fixed; if you can clarify the other one that would be helpful. Do you mean doing a Telepathy spell on Dark Force?
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:59 pm
The bugs occurs every time a "go speak monster spell" works on any monster. At the moment between the monster speaking and the fade of the battle screen, some letters goes crazy at the center of the screen. However, it's harmless.
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:02 pm
Maxim wrote

The articles are relatively easy to extend. I have plans to work on an enhancement to WLA DX to support UTF-8 text to support this as otherwise old-fashioned regional encodings are necessary.

Great! Thank you!
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 3:46 am
Maxim wrote
It's easy to remove items from the inventory if you have saves in the right places. I believe there are paths in the script that are difficult or impossible to reach though?

I have no idea why it's Carbunckle...

Brunette Alisa is now done, by the way.

She looks fantastic! Thanks.

I haven't yet gone to get the Eclipse Torch nor the Laerma Berries. I can provide saves just before the events if you would like.
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:32 am
Saves are good, yes. Emulator specific things, not so much.

In other news, I made a change yesterday that liberates about 25% more space for the script, which will be good for some languages; the French one was struggling to fit in the space, for example.

I can't reproduce the telepathy bug, can I have a Meka savestate for it?
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 3:39 pm
Does Meka also use SSM battery saves? I was going to pass those along.
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 4:36 pm
Yes, Meka can load raw SRAM saves.
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Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:06 pm
Here is the telepathy bug. It happens when we press the button after the monster gives the message.
telepathy-bug.jpg (72.02 KB)
telepathy-bug.jpg

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Post Posted: Today at 6:17 am
That’s not the current beta. I think I fixed all these “window” bugs.
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Post Posted: Today at 8:58 am
I fixed a few bugs with some of the endgame due to some missing rewiring of pointers which happened to work OK previously but fails when data gets rearranged a bit. I think we're very nearly done now (again), so it's good to have some testers: latest patch is at https://ci.appveyor.com/project/maxim-zhao/psrp/build/artifacts
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