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View topic - [VGM Pack] Tom and Jerry - The Movie

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[VGM Pack] Tom and Jerry - The Movie
Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:16 pm
Last edited by sherpa on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:16 pm; edited 3 times in total
Based on the GG version. Music is not the same.

SMS/GG versions now available

http://www.smspower.org/Music/TomAndJerryTheMovie-GG
http://www.smspower.org/Music/TomAndJerryTheMovie-SMS
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:27 pm
Really appreciate your hard work sherpa. But as I said via PM, I don't think the GG version is the same as the SMS version.

I've only played the SMS version, and I'm only aware of 10 tracks in the game. Your pack has 15 and some of them in your pack I have never even heard before. Plus the "Downtown" (aka level 3) music doesn't seem to be anywhere in your pack.

Perhaps someone familiar with both versions of the game can clarify?
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:49 am
Good call...I will have to double check. You might be right on this one...last time I checked was a while ago. Got caught up in other things in the middle of logging, so I ended up deleting everything I had logged before for peace of mind to start with a clean slate...


update: lol it's even worse than I thought. I never even tested the sms version, I must have found the gg version, tested it twice some time apart, and recalled that it looked the same as I remembered...so brain fog. The gg version has a sound test...the sms doesn't.title screen is differrent. No options avaliable.

I'll have to dig in a bit..
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:01 am
Well according to SMSpower, the SMS version DOES have a hidden sound test! http://www.smspower.org/Cheats/TomAndJerryTheMovie-SMS

I recorded the music from all the levels in wav format BEFORE I realized the sound test existed... So I played through the entire game without needing to lol.

I found 10 tracks while playing the SMS version through. But obviously it's possible there may exist unused tracks. The fact that the GG version has 15 tracks, including some I have never heard before would actually make me think it's quite likely the SMS version does have unused tracks.

And equally, I suppose it's possible the "Downtown" track is unused on the GG version?

Oh yeh and also I think the GG title theme sounds slightly different to the SMS title theme. I really think it would be best to record these packs separately for this game, seems there are several differences.

Don't forget the SMS version needs recording at 50hz as it was not released in USA or Japan
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:37 am
Don't worry I won't forget :) Thanks for the tip. I tend to check the game when I am tagging since I check all available sources. Missed this one.

The code seems difficult to trigger.
Hokuto no Ken/Black Belt has a similarly difficult code.
In its case, the first few commands are easy..and it keeps a counter so you can search for the value of key presses, and set it to the total number of commands to enable the cheat.

//
* Set $DB6B to 0x12 (18) to enable the level select...
is there a memory cheat section to this site?
//

This game seems to count every key press...so not sure how to get it working, or even if that counter is related to the code...


would any coders, skilled debuggers like to help?
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:04 am
Well, I inputted it manually. Got it after a few tries..But I'm at the end of my rope in figuring out these pal/ntsc conversions.


The music of the sms version is slower than the GG version. You are also right. Track 04 Downtown is not in the GG version..I'm guessing that's what it is because that's what it sounds like. I haven't finished going through it, but it looks like one other song might also be different.

Your memory serves correctly: there are 10 tracks in the SMS version.

rant:

Thank god there's youtube. Apparently the GG version is faster, so I guess they didn't redo the music?! So what's the correct version for GG? Obviously since that is how the original game is for gg--as it is..but it means the music was originally slower (1992)...so a professional level goof...If I had made the same mistake with this game as with others, it would sound right...

for this reason alone...these packs can't be combined.
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:12 pm
Last edited by sherpa on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Here is the SMS rip at the proper tempo. One of those rare instances where working with similar material did not feel like duplicated work. Also one of those not rare instances where the last track took as long as all the previous combined. I didn't want to believe the loop was more than 1 minute in..

Last track, exclusive to the sms
NOTHING before 1:02.80 repeats..at all. It sounds similar. I can't tell the difference, but the several sets of tools all say the same thing. I had to lower the minimum count in loop finder for it to even show up.

I have not ye checked to see if each voice is doing its own thing. This sometimes happens when each voice has its own pattern. I'd be surprised to find anything other than minor melodic variation, but I've yet to check other sources to solve the mystery.

The last track seems to substitute track 10 of the GG version which also loops late. Or rather this was the original, that track 10 was a replacement. The downtown theme also did not make it to the GG version.

<update> Ok: so the reason for the late loop, is that the repeating pattern is a kind of coda to the preceding material, though it doesn't end. This is probably no the right term.

The beat starts about 4 seconds early. This pattern is shorter than what occurs at ~ minute. In fact all the voices have minor melodic variation in the cadence to the recognizable melody at ~0:22. So although it sounds thematically similar to most of what happens at ~1:02 it's different enough that the other would be a variation, or vice versa. This time the drums are 15 seconds late, but they loop consitently from that point on. My impression is that the drums lead the melody in, drop out and return a bit after more in step with what's going on in the other voices. This seems to be a common technique in music from that era (band music). So the mystery wasn't too unusual. Merely something that isn't done in most chiptune music, which doesnt usually employ musical patterns from the 1930s in America. Which is how old the source material is.
<end>

Unless the programmers had no idea how to code music correctly for pal, this is the preferred tempo version..and the GG is fast..but it without developer feedback the inverse could also be true.

Here is how the tracks correlate: (machine order)

(SMS) 1 = 1 (GG)
(SMS) 2 = 2 (GG)
(SMS) 3 = 4 (GG)
(SMS) 4 = sms exclusive
(SMS) 5 = 5 (GG)
(SMS) 6 = 11 (GG)
(SMS) 7 = sms exclusive
(SMS) 8 = 8 (GG)
(SMS) 9 = 9 (GG)
(SMS) 10 = sms exclusive[/i]


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:33 pm
sherpa wrote
Here is the SMS rip at the proper tempo. One of those rare instances where working with similar material did not feel like duplicated work. Also one of those not rare instances where the last track took as long as all the previous combined. I didn't want to believe the loop was more than 1 minute in..

Last track, exclusive to the sms
NOTHING before 1:02.80 repeats..at all. It sounds similar. I can't tell the difference, but the several sets of tools all say the same thing. I had to lower the minimum count in loop finder for it to even show up.

I have not ye checked to see if each voice is doing its own thing. This sometimes happens when each voice has its own pattern. I'd be surprised to find anything other than minor melodic variation, but I've yet to check other sources to solve the mystery.

The last track seems to substitute track 10 of the GG version which also loops late. Or rather this was the original, that track 10 was a replacement. The downtown theme also did not make it to the GG version.

<update> Ok: so the reason for the late loop, is that the repeating pattern is a kind of coda to the preceding material, though it doesn't end. This is probably no the right term.

The beat starts about 4 seconds early. This pattern is shorter than what occurs at ~ minute. In fact all the voices have minor melodic variation in the cadence to the recognizable melody at ~0:22. So although it sounds thematically similar to most of what happens at ~1:02 it's different enough that the other would be a variation, or vice versa. This time the drums are 15 seconds late, but they loop consitently from that point on. My impression is that the drums lead the melody in, drop out and return a bit after more in step with what's going on in the other voices. This seems to be a common technique in music from that era (band music). So the mystery wasn't too unusual. Merely something that isn't done in most chiptune music, which doesnt usually employ musical patterns from the 1930s in America. Which is how old the source material is.
<end>

Unless the programmers had no idea how to code music correctly for pal, this is the preferred tempo version..and the GG is fast..but it without developer feedback the inverse could also be true.

Here is how the tracks correlate: (machine order)

(SMS) 1 = 1 (GG)
(SMS) 2 = 2 (GG)
(SMS) 3 = 4 (GG)
(SMS) 4 = sms exclusive
(SMS) 5 = 5 (GG)
(SMS) 6 = 11 (GG)
(SMS) 7 = sms exclusive
(SMS) 8 = 8 (GG)
(SMS) 9 = 9 (GG)
(SMS) 10 = sms exclusive[/i]


Great, man thanks to you my SMS VGM pack wishlist (which I made 10 years ago) is now down to just two!

I don't quite understand all the technical stuff but is it possible the unusual structure of the last track (Credits) is due to a programming error or some other oversight?

Also, since I presume you ripped these in-game from the hidden sound test, I wondered how sure you can be that there aren't any unused/hidden tracks in the SMS version? As all 10 of these tracks are used in the SMS game, but since the GG version has more/different tracks I wondered if they might still be present somewhere in the SMS version.

I've fully tagged the SMS version as promised, it's attached below. Perhaps I'm looking too hard but the Title track does seem to have some similarities to the Tom and Jerry theatrical shorts theme, and a few similarities to the Tom and Jerry movie theme too. However I think it's different enough to warrant crediting it purely to Nasu-Bi and P-Ko Chan (the game music composers). Honestly I think it would be a bit of a stretch to credit it to Scott Bradley or Henry Mancini, especially since the similarities may just be coincidental.

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:34 pm
It was developed in Japan, the composer may have intended 60Hz speed.
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:37 pm
Maxim wrote
It was developed in Japan, the composer may have intended 60Hz speed.


I guess it's possible, but unless documented proof that the composer intended a different speed is found, I think it's best to leave it at the native console speed.

Also, if you just consider the sound of the music, although some of the music sounds OK at 60hz (e.g. The Kitchen, The Garden) others sound rushed and much faster than seems natural (e.g. The Mountains, The Baby's Room). I just can't imagine anyone playing the tune that fast.

After listening to both speeds, my personal opinion is that 50hz was the intended speed.
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:55 pm
I agree with TheAssassin's musical aesthetics, but I did wonder who developed it. That's an interesting factoid. SMS coding standards seemed to drift across the board. I wonder if they didn't know how to code for PAl, so it came out that way?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:06 am
Last edited by sherpa on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:17 pm; edited 3 times in total
Here is the SMS version 1.0 tagged and ready.

Might take a bit for the GG since there are more tracks and I am not familiar with the game.

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:30 am
Wrong thread or wrong attachments?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:44 am
This thread has both versions GG and SMS. SMS is tagged, GG still remains to be done. I was originally hoping they would be tagged by someone else, so I posted them here per your response to one of my messages.

This thread discusses both the SMS and GG versions. In an earlier post we commented on the differences in tempo, and speculated which might be the correct on..

So right thread, right attachment. But the GG was posted first. Could make another topic if you prefer. Packs haven't been fastracked to acceptance anyway, but I could see how it might be confusing otherwise.
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:08 am
Check the filename of the last attachment?
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:43 pm
Lol.Have no idea how that happened. Edited the post above with the correct version (SMS)

And here is the updated GG version 1.0 tagged and ready.

Main difference in the tunes between versions seems largely due to a few theme changes and Bonus levels.

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