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View topic - [VGM pack] Golden Axe

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  • Joined: 29 May 2009
  • Posts: 192
  • Location: Basque Country, Spain
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[VGM pack] Golden Axe
Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:30 pm
Last edited by karagh on Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Pack's page:
http://www.smspower.org/Music/GoldenAxe-SMS
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  • Joined: 29 May 2009
  • Posts: 192
  • Location: Basque Country, Spain
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1.03 published
Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:31 pm
Cover added and minor tag corrections.
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  • Joined: 28 Nov 2014
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:36 am
adding a track based on request. I may revisit the pack in the future if I have time, but it probably won't be until I have better methods for processing vgms. This track highlights the challenges of working through vgms quickly.
update: there seem to be some weird noise cancelling effects when playback is switched to 50hz in the 60 hz version. I added a native 50hz version for testing. It seems to affect playback in winamp/in_vgm and vgmplay. Not sure the reason.

----

lpfnd and my own tools initially didn't come anywhere the proper loop point. Interestingly, based on previous advice received in a different context, I would recommend optimizing a track if it is very problematic for exisiting loop finders. Doing so actually allowed the loopfinders to actually hone in on the right point, even if the results were not entirely accurate.

My tools are a bit more tolerant of errors. It found the loop point at ~2:37 after the initial loop point. I know this is correct as I had previously mapped out the song, which has a form of ABACAD (repeat) A is about 28 seconds long, a bit longer than the contrasting sections. The existing track seemed to have been cut a bit short.

As far as the results, this game seems to randomly spam volume data, or at least i could not figure the pattern out. The actual loop point therefore had a 79% accuracy rate across 62 commands...Abysmal yet correct. This is because the command order is sometimes jumbled. Better results would be obtained if set comparisons were judged against one another rather than strict order, even so I am not sure how successful a strategy this would be overall.

In fact, the reason for this shows up in comparing the wave files of the original/trimmed versions. It is exact until just a bit after the loop point, then you get all sorts of phasing effects since the volume graphs no longer match. I don't think this is one of those tracks with individual voices that have different loop lengths, but it might be possible. The melody matches up in each iteration, but it will not sound exactly the same, due to the command jumbling and possibly other reasons.

This track is a prime exhibit why i would like to have some better method of working with vgms. If i had worked on this earlier on in my vgm related exploints, I would have likely dedicated too much time double and triple checking, all to no avail. It's a peculiar track, for its length and song form, not to mention the jumbling of commands. This is more common in other systems, I have not previously come accross an example this egregious among the sets here at smspower.

I may look at the other tracks someday, when i have better methods available/more time.
Golden Axe - 03 - Wilderness.vgm (2.42 KB)
redone track
Golden Axe - 03 - Wilderness 50hz.vgm (49.46 KB)
for testing (not looped)

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  • Joined: 22 Dec 2004
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  • Location: Rouen, France
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:05 am
Thanks for fixing errors in my Golden Axe set. On the VGM page, I can see ""The Battle" has a bad note at the start and incorrectly looped (too many repeats in intro)". Is it fixed too now or do I have to do it?
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:07 am
Wow, what an unexpected surprise!

Actually, when I redid the track, I misunderstood the request. The issue is actually that this track, because of how it works will have tones cancel each other out, leading to missing notes and/or decreased volume when played back at a different rate. I was assured this is normal for some tracks depending on the timing and whether the sound engine was programmed to avoid that. It's probably on of those things no one notices because most of the time it is working well. Even my version shows some noise cancelling effects, just less dramatic.

As far as looping, the original track was not off by much, and did not have any obvious looping issues. Quite probably, the point selected was rather reasonable, but since I found the actual loop point, I corrected it as I was investigating the other issue. This is a track that will sound different each iteration.

Also, the pack has not been updated, so it still has your track there. Nor have corrections been made to the other tracks. So much remains undone, and I am always hesitant to double check the work of others. Unless it is blatantly incorrect, I usually leave it alone.

So you are welcomed to revisit the pack if you like. It's nice to see you. Thank you for your work.


Welcome back :)
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  • Joined: 22 Dec 2004
  • Posts: 151
  • Location: Rouen, France
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:24 pm
Hmmm I never noticed the tune didn't quite exactly loop. It's a problem that can't be fixed if this is the case.

This is when emulated music is superior to logged music, because logged music can't reproduce such variations.

Thanks for your welcome. Anyway, although I don't post much, I'm always around. ;)
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