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No memory trigger found, so I played through the game. Music is not used meaningfully accross the level. The same music may represent a level, or boss. The last boss doesn't even get his own music, and the ending is silent scrolling text.

I just realized there is a problem with my encoding process. I was not familiar with this game, so I didn;t notice, but the music has been recorded at 60hz. So it is 20% faster than the original. A quick look at the game gear version seems to indicate the same game, and would have been a better source. There are a few available solutions, but I'll have to talk to someone knowledgeable for advice..Not sure if there is a place here in the forums for that.

Since it was requested, I will post it here. It is playable at normal speed if you use vgmplay or in_vgm and configure it for playback at 50hz.

I don't like that solution, but it looks like I won't have to relog the vgms. I just need to figure out which is the best recommended solution.

http://www.smspower.org/Music/RoboCopVersusTheTerminator-GG

There is a rate converter but I had trouble getting it to work. I think it helps to have perfectly trimmed frame accurate files.

Late European games tend not to have triggers, but it can be worth hacking them some other way to find unused music.

Previous experience did not help. This still took a while to process.

This is technically a new version. For some reason I thought SMS/GG could be combined. I did not enable anything like GG stereo unless it is on by default. I will probably not relog the sms version without good reason.

This was intended to replace it, but it seem the vgms don't get organized that way even when it's the same music and titles.

Is that policy, or is that just the way previous rippers chose to post them?

[Attachments deleted]

The GG version at 60Hz is slower than the SMS version at 60Hz, suggesting the SMS pack should be ripped at 50Hz. However, I think the music is identical apart from the speed, so the GG pack should be tagged as both systems. I'll upload it for now.

Edit: the m3u doesn't match the filenames so our playlist generator failed. We normally also include samples from the game.

Yeah, last minute oversight. I saw that sms and gg were often split into different sets so I eliminated the extra pic and the reference to master system in the txt. Fixed the m3u and added sms to systems but did not include the SN7689, since this was a gg rip.

So..it seems as if you are asking me to update the tags to list...both systems?

Is there a set that models this behaviour?

Or am I just adding Sega Master System / Sega Game Gear and (japanese MS) / Japanese GG to the system tags?

What about the text, would I add the sega chipset as well?
Only thing that caused me pause was purists thinking, this is a gg rip, not sms...although the songs are the same...the vgm logs do not resemble each other with how the commands are parsed between waits. I have not checked eveything, but in general, GG vgm logs had like 8 commands between waits vs 5 for SMS (i'm generalizing alot here) Commands were lightly different in some cases, I don't remember if that was where the volume was 0 (F) but there was still junk data there (if that's what if was).

Either way...gg may have stereo. I'll do it however you like, though there is probably more of a difference (not noticeable) between the gg version and the sms version (both at correct speed) than there is between a hexedited 60hz to 50hz fixed version.

I've read posts here of speed differences of 4+% between a japanese ntsc game and the us version, so I guess my concerns over the last week were not the worst that could have happened. Still ripping the same game twice is not very much fun, and for the sake of "checking another off the list" I am in favor of consolidation where the music is the same, and the only difference is how each system logs the data.

I was originally going to add an SMS image (that is a bit different-mainly look/layout-title screens are very similar).

Let me know how you prefer and I will be happy to accomodate.

Music is the same though. And yes, none of the pal sms games I ripped compensated, so the only way to play them correctly is to change the setting in the player.

[Attachments removed]

I've updated the tags in the zip version to SMS/GG to help out sherpa with all the good work he's doing. This game soundtrack was always one of my favorites!

[Attachments removed]

Hmm..it seems smspower doesn't let you search for composers. If you liked this work, you might want to search his other projects...http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Mark_Cooksey to the rescue. Wikipedia only lists that he was a 6c4 composer and contributed to ghosts and ghoblins.,,

He's not listed on other packs on vgmpf besides Addams family and Bart vs the space mutants for sms (which seem not to have been ripped)..He also did Hurricanes for gg...work on the sound driver.

It would be nice if we could search for composers...you can click on his name on the vgm releases page though and it also gives arch rivals as a pack he worked on. Don't know where I saw his name before on this site.

Maybe on the forums?
Ah well..

sherpa wrote

Hmm..it seems smspower doesn't let you search for composers. If you liked this work, you might want to search his other projects...http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Mark_Cooksey to the rescue. Wikipedia only lists that he was a 6c4 composer and contributed to ghosts and ghoblins.,,

He's not listed on other packs on vgmpf besides Addams family and Bart vs the space mutants for sms (which seem not to have been ripped)..He also did Hurricanes for gg...work on the sound driver.

It would be nice if we could search for composers...you can click on his name on the vgm releases page though and it also gives arch rivals as a pack he worked on. Don't know where I saw his name before on this site.

Maybe on the forums?
Ah well..

Bart vs The Space Mutants for SMS has been ripped. Not on the main site but here on the forums:

http://www.smspower.org/forums/14671-VGMPackBartVsTheSpaceMutants

On a side note, Bart Vs The Space Mutants is one of the worst console games I've ever played. Always hated it.

Lol Yeah most of those games were not too great. I only remember Bart's Nightmare, for how difficult it was and how little sense it made.

It's strange that the pack was never uploaded....that means there might be some game I am planning on working on and someone already did it? That would be aggravating. Even a small rip takes time...Wish they had a master list here.

A wiki like the memory triggers page. It's also confusing that the packs don't have the release date on the main vgm page...hard to tell what is new.

sherpa wrote

Lol Yeah most of those games were not too great. I only remember Bart's Nightmare, for how difficult it was and how little sense it made.

It's strange that the pack was never uploaded....that means there might be some game I am planning on working on and someone already did it? That would be aggravating. Even a small rip takes time...Wish they had a master list here.

A wiki like the memory triggers page. It's also confusing that the packs don't have the release date on the main vgm page...hard to tell what is new.

Well I guess you could just search the music forum. None of my requests have been uploaded before as far as I can tell.

sherpa wrote

It would be nice if we could search for composers...

http://www.smspower.org/?action=search&q=Mark+Cooksey

Or did you mean search for a composer from the VGMs page? The overall search seems to do well enough, and can cover aliases too.

Yes, I think I must have searched from the vgm page...did not realize there was more than one searchbar.. At least when I typed in a name I got no results during my previous trail..assumptions.

Thanks for letting me know.

There are two search boxes on the site, the games search on the front page and games index, and the top right search on every page which is site wide or section specific if you check the box. Either way, the results are OK...

Ok. Has been updated to include tags of both SMS and GG. Also changed filenames. More importantly, I fixed the playlist. I'd completely forgotten this pack had been accepted.

Now at 1.21

[Attachments removed]

Ah, Cooksey. For some reason his games often have unused tracks. I thought this was an exception. I thought I had done my due diligence. Played TWICE through the entire game on each console version, found secret areas, mapped song use in detail. Only 3 songs used in game, the last boss and ending don't even get their own. But there are two unused pieces. After all this time, only recently realized I had not yet successfully hacked this game. It was a bit more complicated than the usual, but easier than many. Not too bad.

7 tunes, 00-06, 07 is silence. The Unused songs were 0 and 6. Some of Cooksey's techniques remind me of Furniss. But he has a different style, and different engine.

Pack updated to 1.30. Three tracks added. Two discovered by hack, one was overlooked (Game Over). Forgot to record the tune. Same as happened with Dizzy. I froze my lifebar to get through the game and never came across the tune again, until I had a different reason to revisit.

Enjoy

Thanks for the update sherpa, this game has a great soundtrack for sure

This is one of my favorite SMS games, too bad they didn't use the extra unused tracks in the levels to give it that extra edge. I wonder if someone could hack the game to play the unused tracks on different levels, and even for the ending sequence.. hmmmm, just thinking.. :)

That's usually pretty easy to do.

edit: Maxim Beat me to it :)

Actually, it should be pretty easy. You just need to change the values at certain rom locations. Most songs in this game load a discrete value and call the sound function. That is a minor aspect of my work on the music control page. This Pack is based on the GG version, a hack is listed here:

http://www.smspower.org/Development/MusicEngineControl-FullGG-Title-AZ

If you want the sms version, consult the corresponding version of the page. It's developed by NMS software which is a minor developer, so it doesn't have its own page.

For reference, the title screen value is 03 at ROM[0221C]. The sound function is a bit later at 02227 (CD1882) The sound function is located at 7C218.

You have 3 options:
1) If you have a hex tool with wildcard search you can search for 3E ?? F5 3E 1F. There are 13 discrete locations that pop up with this. One location at 299A loads a value from ram $CC79. There are fourteen different instances of the call in rom so this might be everything. The last option (load from ram) allows for reuse.

Search for any calls to the function in hex (CD1882) and look around to find song loading points. You may be able to focus on those that don't load a discrete value near the function with the debugger.

2) Play through the game and see what rom locations affect the music as you play through it with the debugger on. i.e. 0221C triggers at the title screen, the id is slightly above the function and loads 03. Map the location, Title-03 or something like that and continue. Emulicious makes debugging through the game trivial. Set a breakpoint at 7C218 and another at CC79. It has a customizable tracer and recent updates make this easier. It does affect game play speed a bit unless you have a faster machine. However, if you like Meka also gives you this option, but the breakpoint will be set at 8812 instead. Speed will be closer to normal but the tracer is not as robust. It will still be good for 13/14 locations, since the value loads close by. Emulicious has a tracer as one of the debugger's tools. I believe in MEKA typing trace after starting the debugger and setting a breakpoint starts the tracer

3) Change the music values in rom and record the changes. You will have to have a familiarity with the game already or have previously played through and mapped it. You will probably do this anyway until you find a combination of music you like.

IDs are 00-06 for music 07 is silence.

This is a bit of a long post, but if you want to it is not only achievable, but relatively easy. This is true of many games.

Good Luck.

sherpa, very cool - thanks for the explanation :)

best regards,
- dink

Author	Message
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	[VGM Pack] RoboCop vs the Terminator Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:49 am Last edited by sherpa on Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	No memory trigger found, so I played through the game. Music is not used meaningfully accross the level. The same music may represent a level, or boss. The last boss doesn't even get his own music, and the ending is silent scrolling text. I just realized there is a problem with my encoding process. I was not familiar with this game, so I didn;t notice, but the music has been recorded at 60hz. So it is 20% faster than the original. A quick look at the game gear version seems to indicate the same game, and would have been a better source. There are a few available solutions, but I'll have to talk to someone knowledgeable for advice..Not sure if there is a place here in the forums for that. Since it was requested, I will post it here. It is playable at normal speed if you use vgmplay or in_vgm and configure it for playback at 50hz. I don't like that solution, but it looks like I won't have to relog the vgms. I just need to figure out which is the best recommended solution. http://www.smspower.org/Music/RoboCopVersusTheTerminator-GG

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14740 Location: London	Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:18 am
	There is a rate converter but I had trouble getting it to work. I think it helps to have perfectly trimmed frame accurate files. Late European games tend not to have triggers, but it can be worth hacking them some other way to find unused music.

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:50 pm
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Previous experience did not help. This still took a while to process. This is technically a new version. For some reason I thought SMS/GG could be combined. I did not enable anything like GG stereo unless it is on by default. I will probably not relog the sms version without good reason. This was intended to replace it, but it seem the vgms don't get organized that way even when it's the same music and titles. Is that policy, or is that just the way previous rippers chose to post them? [Attachments deleted]

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14740 Location: London	Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:36 am
	The GG version at 60Hz is slower than the SMS version at 60Hz, suggesting the SMS pack should be ripped at 50Hz. However, I think the music is identical apart from the speed, so the GG pack should be tagged as both systems. I'll upload it for now. Edit: the m3u doesn't match the filenames so our playlist generator failed. We normally also include samples from the game.

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:22 am
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Yeah, last minute oversight. I saw that sms and gg were often split into different sets so I eliminated the extra pic and the reference to master system in the txt. Fixed the m3u and added sms to systems but did not include the SN7689, since this was a gg rip. So..it seems as if you are asking me to update the tags to list...both systems? Is there a set that models this behaviour? Or am I just adding Sega Master System / Sega Game Gear and (japanese MS) / Japanese GG to the system tags? What about the text, would I add the sega chipset as well? Only thing that caused me pause was purists thinking, this is a gg rip, not sms...although the songs are the same...the vgm logs do not resemble each other with how the commands are parsed between waits. I have not checked eveything, but in general, GG vgm logs had like 8 commands between waits vs 5 for SMS (i'm generalizing alot here) Commands were lightly different in some cases, I don't remember if that was where the volume was 0 (F) but there was still junk data there (if that's what if was). Either way...gg may have stereo. I'll do it however you like, though there is probably more of a difference (not noticeable) between the gg version and the sms version (both at correct speed) than there is between a hexedited 60hz to 50hz fixed version. I've read posts here of speed differences of 4+% between a japanese ntsc game and the us version, so I guess my concerns over the last week were not the worst that could have happened. Still ripping the same game twice is not very much fun, and for the sake of "checking another off the list" I am in favor of consolidation where the music is the same, and the only difference is how each system logs the data. I was originally going to add an SMS image (that is a bit different-mainly look/layout-title screens are very similar). Let me know how you prefer and I will be happy to accomodate. Music is the same though. And yes, none of the pal sms games I ripped compensated, so the only way to play them correctly is to change the setting in the player. [Attachments removed]

TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:30 pm
TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	I've updated the tags in the zip version to SMS/GG to help out sherpa with all the good work he's doing. This game soundtrack was always one of my favorites! [Attachments removed]

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:44 am
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Hmm..it seems smspower doesn't let you search for composers. If you liked this work, you might want to search his other projects...http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Mark_Cooksey to the rescue. Wikipedia only lists that he was a 6c4 composer and contributed to ghosts and ghoblins.,, He's not listed on other packs on vgmpf besides Addams family and Bart vs the space mutants for sms (which seem not to have been ripped)..He also did Hurricanes for gg...work on the sound driver. It would be nice if we could search for composers...you can click on his name on the vgm releases page though and it also gives arch rivals as a pack he worked on. Don't know where I saw his name before on this site. Maybe on the forums? Ah well..

TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:05 am
TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	sherpa wrote Hmm..it seems smspower doesn't let you search for composers. If you liked this work, you might want to search his other projects...http://www.vgmpf.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Mark_Cooksey to the rescue. Wikipedia only lists that he was a 6c4 composer and contributed to ghosts and ghoblins.,, He's not listed on other packs on vgmpf besides Addams family and Bart vs the space mutants for sms (which seem not to have been ripped)..He also did Hurricanes for gg...work on the sound driver. It would be nice if we could search for composers...you can click on his name on the vgm releases page though and it also gives arch rivals as a pack he worked on. Don't know where I saw his name before on this site. Maybe on the forums? Ah well.. Bart vs The Space Mutants for SMS has been ripped. Not on the main site but here on the forums: http://www.smspower.org/forums/14671-VGMPackBartVsTheSpaceMutants On a side note, Bart Vs The Space Mutants is one of the worst console games I've ever played. Always hated it.

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:26 am
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Lol Yeah most of those games were not too great. I only remember Bart's Nightmare, for how difficult it was and how little sense it made. It's strange that the pack was never uploaded....that means there might be some game I am planning on working on and someone already did it? That would be aggravating. Even a small rip takes time...Wish they had a master list here. A wiki like the memory triggers page. It's also confusing that the packs don't have the release date on the main vgm page...hard to tell what is new.

TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:32 pm
TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	sherpa wrote Lol Yeah most of those games were not too great. I only remember Bart's Nightmare, for how difficult it was and how little sense it made. It's strange that the pack was never uploaded....that means there might be some game I am planning on working on and someone already did it? That would be aggravating. Even a small rip takes time...Wish they had a master list here. A wiki like the memory triggers page. It's also confusing that the packs don't have the release date on the main vgm page...hard to tell what is new. Well I guess you could just search the music forum. None of my requests have been uploaded before as far as I can tell.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14740 Location: London	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:42 pm
	sherpa wrote It would be nice if we could search for composers... http://www.smspower.org/?action=search&q=Mark+Cooksey Or did you mean search for a composer from the VGMs page? The overall search seems to do well enough, and can cover aliases too.

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:57 pm
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Yes, I think I must have searched from the vgm page...did not realize there was more than one searchbar.. At least when I typed in a name I got no results during my previous trail..assumptions. Thanks for letting me know.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14740 Location: London	Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:11 pm
	There are two search boxes on the site, the games search on the front page and games index, and the top right search on every page which is site wide or section specific if you check the box. Either way, the results are OK...

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:38 pm
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Ok. Has been updated to include tags of both SMS and GG. Also changed filenames. More importantly, I fixed the playlist. I'd completely forgotten this pack had been accepted. Now at 1.21 [Attachments removed]

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:50 am
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Ah, Cooksey. For some reason his games often have unused tracks. I thought this was an exception. I thought I had done my due diligence. Played TWICE through the entire game on each console version, found secret areas, mapped song use in detail. Only 3 songs used in game, the last boss and ending don't even get their own. But there are two unused pieces. After all this time, only recently realized I had not yet successfully hacked this game. It was a bit more complicated than the usual, but easier than many. Not too bad. 7 tunes, 00-06, 07 is silence. The Unused songs were 0 and 6. Some of Cooksey's techniques remind me of Furniss. But he has a different style, and different engine. Pack updated to 1.30. Three tracks added. Two discovered by hack, one was overlooked (Game Over). Forgot to record the tune. Same as happened with Dizzy. I froze my lifebar to get through the game and never came across the tune again, until I had a different reason to revisit. Enjoy

TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:30 pm
TheAssassin Joined: 06 Jan 2005 Posts: 177	Thanks for the update sherpa, this game has a great soundtrack for sure

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 9:48 pm
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	This is one of my favorite SMS games, too bad they didn't use the extra unused tracks in the levels to give it that extra edge. I wonder if someone could hack the game to play the unused tracks on different levels, and even for the ending sequence.. hmmmm, just thinking.. :)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14740 Location: London	Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:19 am
	That's usually pretty easy to do.

sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:34 am
sherpa Joined: 28 Nov 2014 Posts: 365	edit: Maxim Beat me to it :) Actually, it should be pretty easy. You just need to change the values at certain rom locations. Most songs in this game load a discrete value and call the sound function. That is a minor aspect of my work on the music control page. This Pack is based on the GG version, a hack is listed here: http://www.smspower.org/Development/MusicEngineControl-FullGG-Title-AZ If you want the sms version, consult the corresponding version of the page. It's developed by NMS software which is a minor developer, so it doesn't have its own page. For reference, the title screen value is 03 at ROM[0221C]. The sound function is a bit later at 02227 (CD1882) The sound function is located at 7C218. You have 3 options: 1) If you have a hex tool with wildcard search you can search for 3E ?? F5 3E 1F. There are 13 discrete locations that pop up with this. One location at 299A loads a value from ram $CC79. There are fourteen different instances of the call in rom so this might be everything. The last option (load from ram) allows for reuse. Search for any calls to the function in hex (CD1882) and look around to find song loading points. You may be able to focus on those that don't load a discrete value near the function with the debugger. 2) Play through the game and see what rom locations affect the music as you play through it with the debugger on. i.e. 0221C triggers at the title screen, the id is slightly above the function and loads 03. Map the location, Title-03 or something like that and continue. Emulicious makes debugging through the game trivial. Set a breakpoint at 7C218 and another at CC79. It has a customizable tracer and recent updates make this easier. It does affect game play speed a bit unless you have a faster machine. However, if you like Meka also gives you this option, but the breakpoint will be set at 8812 instead. Speed will be closer to normal but the tracer is not as robust. It will still be good for 13/14 locations, since the value loads close by. Emulicious has a tracer as one of the debugger's tools. I believe in MEKA typing trace after starting the debugger and setting a breakpoint starts the tracer 3) Change the music values in rom and record the changes. You will have to have a familiarity with the game already or have previously played through and mapped it. You will probably do this anyway until you find a combination of music you like. IDs are 00-06 for music 07 is silence. This is a bit of a long post, but if you want to it is not only achievable, but relatively easy. This is true of many games. Good Luck.

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:01 am
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	sherpa, very cool - thanks for the explanation :) best regards, - dink

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