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Happy birthday Omar!

bocksbirthday2007.zip (10.7 KB)

Bock's Birthday 2007

bocksbirthday2007-source.zip (59.99 KB)

Bock's Birthday 2007 source

Happy Birthday.. and to think mine was just a week ago. Time to open his present for him and play it :P

Happy Birthday Omar !

Happy birthday Bock :)

Nice zoom effect for sms :)

Yeah, nice zoom effect.....

...cheater.

Happy Birthday, Bock.

Happy birthday.

Happy Birthday Bock!

Now I wonder how you came up with the idea of using a test pattern for the prog.... *whistles innocently*

Heliophobe wrote

Yeah, nice zoom effect.....

...cheater.

I think it wasn't bad considering I had half a day's preparation time (away from the computer) and a couple of hours of coding time. And I think it's an effect that hasn't been done before on the SMS (probably because 4 frames is rather restrictive).

Pallette rotation?

Whats the groovy font thats used in the demo Maxim?

djbass wrote

Palette rotation?

Well, swapping rather than rotation.

Jacko wrote

What's the groovy font that's used in the demo Maxim?

One of the new Vista ones whose name starts with C.

Thanks everyone !!
And thanks Maxim (again) for the effort and nifty idea :)

(Technical)
We "studied" the demo here, and maybe I missed something, but I am wondering why the effect can't be applied to 15 frames?

Based on theoritical VRAM upload speed via OUTI / or perhaps even using an higher level decompressor such as the Phantasy Star one, would it be viable to continuously stream 1-bit video this way ? :)
(/Technical)

Bock wrote

(Technical)
We "studied" the demo here, and maybe I missed something, but I am wondering why the effect can't be applied to 15 frames?

It would only work if none of the white pixels in one frame overlapped with white pixels in another frame. Watching the palette changes frame by frame and studying the source picture sheds some light on it.

Quote

Based on theoritical VRAM upload speed via OUTI / or perhaps even using an higher level decompressor such as the Phantasy Star one, would it be viable to continuously stream 1-bit video this way ? :)
(/Technical)

I think I thought about this once and came up with an answer of 'no', but I might have been thinking of another potential effect. Let me think about that one....

A little late, but Hapee Birrthday Bock!

(thought about it)

I guess what I mean is not at full-frame or 60fps (or even close).

During a single frame, one of the 'planes' would be visible. and the next plane would be filled with new data (you could toggle between two planes or cycle through all four). The problem is that data in each planes is non-sequential - you'd have to either skip over the other planes that make up one row of pixels in a tile using costly VDP address set commands, or just write over the with the same data that's already in it (from ROM, not by reading the VRAM of course). Either way, you're at least quadrupling the amount of work you need to do if the frames were stored linearly and you can't just use a string of OUTI's to do it. Also, of course, the window can only be as big as the number of tiles you can spare on the screen*

Come to think of it, if you were going to try something like that there's no reason (aside from ROM space issues) not to stream 4 color video, since you've got to deal with the non-linear issue anyway.

(*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....)

You could double buffer using lower 8 KB (or a little less) then higher one.
The point between 1-bit and 4-bit video is that is you can store more "frames" in a same amount of tile data you have more time to stream.

Ah, I'm off to sleep.

Heliophobe wrote

(*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....)

You mean the SG-1000 graphics mode(s)? I thought someone did a demo for the Colecovision or similar that had a 1-bit video of a scene from The Matrix.

The Phantasy Star compressor is simply RLE applied to chunked bitplanes. On 1bpp images it simply becomes RLE compression.

For video you'd want to at least store inter-frame deltas to save some space/speed. For SMS mode 4, using bitplanes as a proxy for double-buffering would be interesting but the loss of colour may be painful. If you wanted to have it fullscreen you'd need to have extremely carefully chosen source video to avoid meeting the tile limit. Updating tiles on the fly is never going to be fast. Maintaining a consistent framerate will be tricky when the amount of work per frame is so variable.

I have lots of ideas for SMS FMV, few of which counter the ROM space problem, more of which are concerned with getting some detail on the screen (if only in greyscale). It'd require some heavy preprocessing and would not be entirely convincing, and I may never actually code it...

sorry for being late but as the saying goes better late then never...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOCK!!!!

Happy (belated) birthday, Bock! :-) (And congratulations on a cool effect from Maxim!)

Maxim wrote

Heliophobe wrote

(*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....)

You mean the SG-1000 graphics mode(s)? I thought someone did a demo for the Colecovision or similar that had a 1-bit video of a scene from The Matrix.

Nope, this uses regular mode 4 which would work on all SMS-compatible VDP variations: This uses 384 of the available tiles repeated on the top and bottom half of the screen. On the top half, the regular palette is used so the top two bits are not relevent to the display. On the bottom, the sprite palette is used so the bottom two are not relevant. You can also use this to display a 2-bit color display, but without buffering.

Heliophobe wrote

On the top half, the regular palette is used so the top two bits are not relevent to the display. On the bottom, the sprite palette is used so the bottom two are not relevant. You can also use this to display a 2-bit color display, but without buffering.

Done for the B&W pics in my SMS 3-D Demo :-D

Sorry for being late..

Bon anniv' Omar..

Bock, you have to listen to the latest sms power show :)

oh yeah, I forgot about that small detail, please listen to the show for 28/11/07 or 11/28/07 cause umm yeah theres a small surprise for you Bock :P I think you will like it..... hehehe

Will listen this week-end! (haven't listened to any) Over busy right now.

Happy Birthday, Bock!

Bock wrote

Will listen this week-end! (haven't listened to any) Over busy right now.

Have you found the "surprise" yet Bock?

I've just started listening thru them.. I'm only 5 minutes in the first show yet, but the day is long so eventually I'll catch that. :)
Will have to skip it periodically because I'm working on other sound related stuff and two audio output don't mix well in my head.

SCANDAL !! I'M HEARING WINDOWS "mouse click" SOUNDS DURING "Double Dragon" music !!
Were you direct recording your PC output ?

Bock wrote

I've just started listening thru them.. I'm only 5 minutes in the first show yet, but the day is long so eventually I'll catch that. :)
Will have to skip it periodically because I'm working on other sound related stuff and two audio output don't mix well in my head.

SCANDAL !! I'M HEARING WINDOWS "mouse click" SOUNDS DURING "Double Dragon" music !!
Were you direct recording your PC output ?

I recorded the podcast live as I record the show, that was my 1st show and I was not using my brain, next time I will turn off all windows sounds lol.... Very keen ear for picking that up though Bock.

Author	Message
Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Bock's Birthday 2007 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:58 pm
	Happy birthday Omar! bocksbirthday2007.zip (10.7 KB) Bock's Birthday 2007 bocksbirthday2007-source.zip (59.99 KB) Bock's Birthday 2007 source

AtariRaccoon Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Canada - NB	Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:01 pm
	Happy Birthday.. and to think mine was just a week ago. Time to open his present for him and play it :P

luke2fr Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 4 Location: acheres, France	Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:32 pm
	Happy Birthday Omar !

vbt Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 161	Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:22 pm
vbt Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 161	Happy birthday Bock :) Nice zoom effect for sms :)

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:22 am
	Yeah, nice zoom effect..... ...cheater. Happy Birthday, Bock.

Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Happy birthday.

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1464 Location: Sunny ol Tamworth, New England NSW AU	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:20 am
	Happy Birthday Bock!

AtariRaccoon Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 99 Location: Canada - NB	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:44 am
	Now I wonder how you came up with the idea of using a test pattern for the prog.... whistles innocently

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:47 am
	Heliophobe wrote Yeah, nice zoom effect..... ...cheater. I think it wasn't bad considering I had half a day's preparation time (away from the computer) and a couple of hours of coding time. And I think it's an effect that hasn't been done before on the SMS (probably because 4 frames is rather restrictive).

thatawesomeguy Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 729 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:14 am
	Pallette rotation?

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1464 Location: Sunny ol Tamworth, New England NSW AU	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:35 am
	Whats the groovy font thats used in the demo Maxim?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:07 am
	djbass wrote Palette rotation? Well, swapping rather than rotation. Jacko wrote What's the groovy font that's used in the demo Maxim? One of the new Vista ones whose name starts with C.

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8648 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:25 pm
	Thanks everyone !! And thanks Maxim (again) for the effort and nifty idea :) (Technical) We "studied" the demo here, and maybe I missed something, but I am wondering why the effect can't be applied to 15 frames? Based on theoritical VRAM upload speed via OUTI / or perhaps even using an higher level decompressor such as the Phantasy Star one, would it be viable to continuously stream 1-bit video this way ? :) (/Technical)

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:57 pm
	Bock wrote (Technical) We "studied" the demo here, and maybe I missed something, but I am wondering why the effect can't be applied to 15 frames? It would only work if none of the white pixels in one frame overlapped with white pixels in another frame. Watching the palette changes frame by frame and studying the source picture sheds some light on it. Quote Based on theoritical VRAM upload speed via OUTI / or perhaps even using an higher level decompressor such as the Phantasy Star one, would it be viable to continuously stream 1-bit video this way ? :) (/Technical) I think I thought about this once and came up with an answer of 'no', but I might have been thinking of another potential effect. Let me think about that one....

Rony_ket Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 137 Location: Sampa, Brazil	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:09 am
	A little late, but Hapee Birrthday Bock!

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:22 am
	(thought about it) I guess what I mean is not at full-frame or 60fps (or even close). During a single frame, one of the 'planes' would be visible. and the next plane would be filled with new data (you could toggle between two planes or cycle through all four). The problem is that data in each planes is non-sequential - you'd have to either skip over the other planes that make up one row of pixels in a tile using costly VDP address set commands, or just write over the with the same data that's already in it (from ROM, not by reading the VRAM of course). Either way, you're at least quadrupling the amount of work you need to do if the frames were stored linearly and you can't just use a string of OUTI's to do it. Also, of course, the window can only be as big as the number of tiles you can spare on the screen* Come to think of it, if you were going to try something like that there's no reason (aside from ROM space issues) not to stream 4 color video, since you've got to deal with the non-linear issue anyway. (*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....)

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8648 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:57 am
	You could double buffer using lower 8 KB (or a little less) then higher one. The point between 1-bit and 4-bit video is that is you can store more "frames" in a same amount of tile data you have more time to stream. Ah, I'm off to sleep.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:29 am
	Heliophobe wrote (*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....) You mean the SG-1000 graphics mode(s)? I thought someone did a demo for the Colecovision or similar that had a 1-bit video of a scene from The Matrix. The Phantasy Star compressor is simply RLE applied to chunked bitplanes. On 1bpp images it simply becomes RLE compression. For video you'd want to at least store inter-frame deltas to save some space/speed. For SMS mode 4, using bitplanes as a proxy for double-buffering would be interesting but the loss of colour may be painful. If you wanted to have it fullscreen you'd need to have extremely carefully chosen source video to avoid meeting the tile limit. Updating tiles on the fly is never going to be fast. Maintaining a consistent framerate will be tricky when the amount of work per frame is so variable. I have lots of ideas for SMS FMV, few of which counter the ROM space problem, more of which are concerned with getting some detail on the screen (if only in greyscale). It'd require some heavy preprocessing and would not be entirely convincing, and I may never actually code it...

segamanxero Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 6 Location: South Boston	im always late for everything... Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:13 am
	sorry for being late but as the saying goes better late then never... HAPPY BIRTHDAY BOCK!!!!

benryves Joined: 12 Apr 2005 Posts: 391 Location: London, United Kingdom	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:46 pm
	Happy (belated) birthday, Bock! :-) (And congratulations on a cool effect from Maxim!)

Heliophobe Site Admin Joined: 25 Oct 1999 Posts: 2029 Location: Monterey, California	Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:04 pm
	Maxim wrote Heliophobe wrote (*there is a sneaky way to fake a double-buffered full screen 1 bit display where you really can write to any pixel without running out of tiles, but that's another thread....) You mean the SG-1000 graphics mode(s)? I thought someone did a demo for the Colecovision or similar that had a 1-bit video of a scene from The Matrix. Nope, this uses regular mode 4 which would work on all SMS-compatible VDP variations: This uses 384 of the available tiles repeated on the top and bottom half of the screen. On the top half, the regular palette is used so the top two bits are not relevent to the display. On the bottom, the sprite palette is used so the bottom two are not relevant. You can also use this to display a 2-bit color display, but without buffering.

ccovell Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 374 Location: Japan	Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:44 am
ccovell Joined: 26 Dec 2004 Posts: 374 Location: Japan	Heliophobe wrote On the top half, the regular palette is used so the top two bits are not relevent to the display. On the bottom, the sprite palette is used so the bottom two are not relevant. You can also use this to display a 2-bit color display, but without buffering. Done for the B&W pics in my SMS 3-D Demo :-D

Adol Joined: 24 Jun 1999 Posts: 232 Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic	Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:33 am
	Sorry for being late.. Bon anniv' Omar..

vbt Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 161	Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:25 pm
vbt Joined: 21 May 2007 Posts: 161	Bock, you have to listen to the latest sms power show :)

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1464 Location: Sunny ol Tamworth, New England NSW AU	Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:57 pm
	oh yeah, I forgot about that small detail, please listen to the show for 28/11/07 or 11/28/07 cause umm yeah theres a small surprise for you Bock :P I think you will like it..... hehehe

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8648 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:31 pm
	Will listen this week-end! (haven't listened to any) Over busy right now.

Paul Jensen Joined: 29 Jun 1999 Posts: 254 Location: California, USA; Hiroshima, Japan	Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:24 am
	Happy Birthday, Bock!

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1464 Location: Sunny ol Tamworth, New England NSW AU	Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:02 pm
	Bock wrote Will listen this week-end! (haven't listened to any) Over busy right now. Have you found the "surprise" yet Bock?

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8648 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:11 pm
	I've just started listening thru them.. I'm only 5 minutes in the first show yet, but the day is long so eventually I'll catch that. :) Will have to skip it periodically because I'm working on other sound related stuff and two audio output don't mix well in my head. SCANDAL !! I'M HEARING WINDOWS "mouse click" SOUNDS DURING "Double Dragon" music !! Were you direct recording your PC output ?

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1464 Location: Sunny ol Tamworth, New England NSW AU	Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:44 pm
	Bock wrote I've just started listening thru them.. I'm only 5 minutes in the first show yet, but the day is long so eventually I'll catch that. :) Will have to skip it periodically because I'm working on other sound related stuff and two audio output don't mix well in my head. SCANDAL !! I'M HEARING WINDOWS "mouse click" SOUNDS DURING "Double Dragon" music !! Were you direct recording your PC output ? I recorded the podcast live as I record the show, that was my 1st show and I was not using my brain, next time I will turn off all windows sounds lol.... Very keen ear for picking that up though Bock.

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