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So I am planning to buy a properly-sized modern HD TV. What are the things to watch out in order to make sure I can plug it Sega systems via SCART/RGB with decent stretching and no latency?

Latency in particular seems to be a common topic of discussion when it comes to plugging retro game systems on modern TV. LCD, Plasma? I'm getting special low prices on Sony TV so I was considering something like their "Sony KDL40CX523BU 40-inch Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Internet Ready TV with Freeview HD" (such a short name heh).

Maybe I should just popup in a shop with a Master System.

I was a 32' LCD TV, and I was plugged my MD Play and it was got a horrible image from A/V inputs. My TV has RF, 2 AV, 2 HDMI, 2 Component (R/G/B), USB, PC (VGA) and S-Video ports.

There are lots of articles on finding an HDTV that works with old consoles, but it comes down to two things to look for: support for 240p modes, and a TV mode called "game" mode where all processing (beyond simple stretching) is bypassed for less latency. Check for models you think you'll like at the store (or wherever you plan to get it), mark down the model numbers, then go online and download the manuals for them. Check to see if they say they support 240p or not. They do a google on the model in general to see if there's any kind of talk about it. For example, a google on my brother's TV turned up all kinds of threads on the fact that the only way to get one repaired is to send it back to the manufacturer (Westinghouse) since they won't even SELL the schematics/repair manual to other TV repairmen. It's best to learn those things BEFORE you buy the TV.

I agree with Chilly Willy.

Here's a tip for you, ask the salesperson to connect a Wii to whatever TV you're looking at purchasing. The Wii can output a 240p signal so this is a good way to test if the TV will play nicely with older consoles.

In my experience, Samsung are horrible when it comes to retro consoles as they seldom support a 240p signal and sometimes they have issues with certain PAL/NTSC signals.

Panasonic has always been good to me.

Frank_fjs wrote

The Wii can output a 240p signal so this is a good way to test if the TV will play nicely with older consoles.

I don't think that's correct. Not sure if PAL is different, but on NTSC, the system menu only allows 480i and 480p to be selected (and some Virtual Console games won't display correctly (possibly 240p games?), requiring the user to enter a code to force it to display in a more compatible mode.)
Unless that issue is the one you were getting at, using as a test?

Sorry, I should have specified... Run the Virtual Console and specify 240p output.

I *think* the PS2 via a component cable also outputs a 240p signal.

I have seen trouble running a PS1 game on a PS2 with a component cable (such as the game becoming squished in half the screen while the other half keeps displaying the BIOS graphic).

Heres how my 40" Full HD TV shows SMS video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlaEr57934w

Not sure if this helps? Keep in mind this is a 2010 model bravia
http://www.sony.com.au/product/kdl-40ex500

I think it's really a case of having to test each example, especially on older hardware with less in-spec outputs.

If you really want to take control, you could buy one of those digital scan converter devices that were mentioned on the consolised GG thread, as they seem able to convert anything to anything but they seem to range from quite expensive (a few hundred pounds) to crazy expensive (a few hundred pounds per day).

FWIW, my cheap Panasonic plasma seems to upscale 240p Wii VC OK (I don't have an SMS handy for more testing) but in a blurry way, not crispy pixels.

My 50" Panasonic plasma with Master System connected via component.

SMS_Plasma_YUV.jpg (95.39 KB)

AKMW (seems to be the standard) in a 240p Wii mode on my cheap TV.The TV says it's 480i but seems to be displaying it as 240p (no combing). Bad colour is due to my lousy phone camera :) There's some horizontal blurring but vertically it's very sharp, very similar to the previous post in reality.

Edit: Actually, now I look at it, I can see the pixel scaling is inconsistent - the diagonals on the letter X show it quite clearly. So that's an example of where it can look bad.

IMG_20111121_204353.jpg (509.26 KB)

Just get a cheap CRT and play the SMS that way

You could go down the scaler/sync stripper/scanline generator route. My Samsung was crap for all older systems but with that setup, its very nice. Does perform better at 60hz though.

I have heard that RGB to hdmi converters have good results, I cant confirm as Ive only seen a PSX run in this manner and that was pretty A+

I recently got a SMS 1 to RGB SCART cable. Hooked it to my RGB to Component converter. Can't get any video. Via my EverDrive, I can play SMS on the Genesis with the same setup, although sometimes the video drops off for a second. I suppose my TV will not accept the SMS RGB? Very strange that the Genesis is mostly okay though.

Actually, the main cause of Wii VC issues on HDTV is that PAL VC games often removed 480p. NTSC Neo Geo games also lack it.

PS2 outputs 240p mainly from PS1 games. PS2, DC, & GC games could also be 240p (if very rare). Xbox however did *NOT* have official 240p support.

Author	Message
Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 6320 Location: London, UK	Modern HD TV with Master System Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:58 pm
	So I am planning to buy a properly-sized modern HD TV. What are the things to watch out in order to make sure I can plug it Sega systems via SCART/RGB with decent stretching and no latency? Latency in particular seems to be a common topic of discussion when it comes to plugging retro game systems on modern TV. LCD, Plasma? I'm getting special low prices on Sony TV so I was considering something like their "Sony KDL40CX523BU 40-inch Widescreen Full HD 1080p LCD Internet Ready TV with Freeview HD" (such a short name heh). Maybe I should just popup in a shop with a Master System.

Sonic of 8! Joined: 21 Jun 2010 Posts: 196 Location: Earth Planet	Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:06 pm
	I was a 32' LCD TV, and I was plugged my MD Play and it was got a horrible image from A/V inputs. My TV has RF, 2 AV, 2 HDMI, 2 Component (R/G/B), USB, PC (VGA) and S-Video ports.

Chilly Willy Joined: 23 Jan 2011 Posts: 64 Location: The Land of Enchantment	Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:14 pm
	There are lots of articles on finding an HDTV that works with old consoles, but it comes down to two things to look for: support for 240p modes, and a TV mode called "game" mode where all processing (beyond simple stretching) is bypassed for less latency. Check for models you think you'll like at the store (or wherever you plan to get it), mark down the model numbers, then go online and download the manuals for them. Check to see if they say they support 240p or not. They do a google on the model in general to see if there's any kind of talk about it. For example, a google on my brother's TV turned up all kinds of threads on the fact that the only way to get one repaired is to send it back to the manufacturer (Westinghouse) since they won't even SELL the schematics/repair manual to other TV repairmen. It's best to learn those things BEFORE you buy the TV.

Frank_fjs Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 68 Location: Australia	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:59 am
	I agree with Chilly Willy. Here's a tip for you, ask the salesperson to connect a Wii to whatever TV you're looking at purchasing. The Wii can output a 240p signal so this is a good way to test if the TV will play nicely with older consoles. In my experience, Samsung are horrible when it comes to retro consoles as they seldom support a 240p signal and sometimes they have issues with certain PAL/NTSC signals. Panasonic has always been good to me.

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 90	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:13 am
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 90	Frank_fjs wrote The Wii can output a 240p signal so this is a good way to test if the TV will play nicely with older consoles. I don't think that's correct. Not sure if PAL is different, but on NTSC, the system menu only allows 480i and 480p to be selected (and some Virtual Console games won't display correctly (possibly 240p games?), requiring the user to enter a code to force it to display in a more compatible mode.) Unless that issue is the one you were getting at, using as a test?

Frank_fjs Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 68 Location: Australia	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:17 am
	Sorry, I should have specified... Run the Virtual Console and specify 240p output. I think the PS2 via a component cable also outputs a 240p signal.

KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 90	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:22 am
KingMike Joined: 14 Oct 2008 Posts: 90	I have seen trouble running a PS1 game on a PS2 with a component cable (such as the game becoming squished in half the screen while the other half keeps displaying the BIOS graphic).

Jacko Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 1402 Location: Adelaide, South Australia	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:11 am
	Heres how my 40" Full HD TV shows SMS video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlaEr57934w Not sure if this helps? Keep in mind this is a 2010 model bravia http://www.sony.com.au/product/kdl-40ex500

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 8985 Location: London	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:42 am
	I think it's really a case of having to test each example, especially on older hardware with less in-spec outputs. If you really want to take control, you could buy one of those digital scan converter devices that were mentioned on the consolised GG thread, as they seem able to convert anything to anything but they seem to range from quite expensive (a few hundred pounds) to crazy expensive (a few hundred pounds per day). FWIW, my cheap Panasonic plasma seems to upscale 240p Wii VC OK (I don't have an SMS handy for more testing) but in a blurry way, not crispy pixels.

Frank_fjs Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 68 Location: Australia	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:13 pm
	My 50" Panasonic plasma with Master System connected via component. SMS_Plasma_YUV.jpg (95.39 KB)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 8985 Location: London	Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:55 pm Last edited by Maxim on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
	AKMW (seems to be the standard) in a 240p Wii mode on my cheap TV.The TV says it's 480i but seems to be displaying it as 240p (no combing). Bad colour is due to my lousy phone camera :) There's some horizontal blurring but vertically it's very sharp, very similar to the previous post in reality. Edit: Actually, now I look at it, I can see the pixel scaling is inconsistent - the diagonals on the letter X show it quite clearly. So that's an example of where it can look bad. IMG_20111121_204353.jpg (509.26 KB)

KnightWarrior Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 29	Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:25 am
KnightWarrior Joined: 19 Feb 2009 Posts: 29	Just get a cheap CRT and play the SMS that way

Grumbleduke Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1 Location: Norfolk, U.K	Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:05 pm
	You could go down the scaler/sync stripper/scanline generator route. My Samsung was crap for all older systems but with that setup, its very nice. Does perform better at 60hz though.

Emuaust Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 61	Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:09 pm
Emuaust Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 61	I have heard that RGB to hdmi converters have good results, I cant confirm as Ive only seen a PSX run in this manner and that was pretty A+

Greg2600 Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 7	Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:19 pm
Greg2600 Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 7	I recently got a SMS 1 to RGB SCART cable. Hooked it to my RGB to Component converter. Can't get any video. Via my EverDrive, I can play SMS on the Genesis with the same setup, although sometimes the video drops off for a second. I suppose my TV will not accept the SMS RGB? Very strange that the Genesis is mostly okay though.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:50 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 65	Actually, the main cause of Wii VC issues on HDTV is that PAL VC games often removed 480p. NTSC Neo Geo games also lack it. PS2 outputs 240p mainly from PS1 games. PS2, DC, & GC games could also be 240p (if very rare). Xbox however did NOT have official 240p support.

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