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Hi, recently I obtained a US Master System (old model, no built-in game, only snail maze). It is in beautiful physical condition, absolutely perfect: no dust, no scratches, no fingerprints, the plastic film is still on the console & controllers, owner says it was barely used just a few times in the 1980's and has been in a box ever since. Original power supply, RF, gun, everything is great. BUT...

When I turn on the system with a cartridge inserted, most of the time there is a cycling color palette, which seems to be effecting only one color of the palette. So when the SEGA logo shows up from BIOS, the blue part of the logo is changing from blue to purple to red etc. But the black, white, and other things are okay. In-game usually it is the blue color that is cycling, for example the primary color in the title screen logo of R-TYPE is changing colors. During play the colorful part of the ship is cycling colors but the rest of the screen looks okay.

If I turn power off and back on, after several attempts, eventually it works normally (SEGA logo is blue and stays blue) and it works fine for my entire gaming session, even if I turn power off and back on again. So it is almost like the system has to "warm up" or something. I have not tried to leave it turned on for an extended period while the colors are cycling to see if it "fixes itself" after some time without powering off and on, but I intend on trying that when I have a chance.

Strangely, it seems that when I turn on the system with no cartridge inserted, colors are fine. A few times I tried inserting a cartridge while the system was already powered on and the game started with normal colors. But I don't want to do that and risk damaging the console or the games.

I am using the AV/composite cable, same cable I use with my Genesis 1 and it never gave me any trouble before on Genesis. I have not tried the original Sega RF connector yet because I need to use a different TV for that. But I can try it soon.

I tried using 2 other known good power supplies from Genesis 1 with no different result, so I don't think it is a power supply problem. I have not tried with a card game yet (I own Spy vs Spy but can't remember where it is stored, since I haven't played it in 25 years).

Has anyone encountered this issue before? Any idea what I can look for? I didn't open the console yet so maybe there is a blown capacitor or dead cockroach or something fun waiting for me inside. :)

I felt it necessary to resurrect this because I'm having the exact same issue! It seems to be an issue only with games with the 315-5235 paging chip.

It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator.
Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out?

best regards,
- dink

dink wrote

It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator.
Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out?

best regards,
- dink

I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well.

I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay.

I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less.

btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :)

dink wrote

It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator.
Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out?

best regards,
- dink

Just a quick copy & paste from my post on Facebook about it:

I'd say this is repro related because I wasn't having this issue until I tried playing a socketed Master System cart with a 315-5235 pager...

The system is outputting flashing colors with some games. With the games that have the issue, if I turn the system off and on around 1 in 20 times the colors will be stable.

I've tried multiple AC adaptors and AV cables. I've cleaned the cartridge port.

if I start up the system without a cartridge, I don't have any issues what the prompt to insert a cartridge or the snail maze. If I insert the socketed cartridge without a ROM on it, I get flashing colors on the prompt to insert a cartridge or the snail maze. I think the system is having trouble with the cartridges that have the 315-5235 pager.

For me, it happens with every (original) game I've tried - about a dozen cartridges and one card, and a master everdrive (rev 1.1).

Have a look at the power up reset circuit and try changing the capacitor for that. The 315-5235 mapper uses the reset pin too. If the problem is not present with no game plugged in but goes funny as soon as a game plugged in its possible the mapper is putting just enough load on the reset circuit to stuff things up, assuming the cap is out of spec.

stlpaul wrote

dink wrote

It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator.
Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out?

best regards,
- dink

I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well.

I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay.

I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less.

btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :)

It would be worth it to try to get a friend or someone experianced with soldering to check it out and do the recap, you definitely don't want to do a recap on your first soldering attempt.

yes, that's me!

best regards,
- dink

dink wrote

stlpaul wrote

dink wrote

It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator.
Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out?

best regards,
- dink

I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well.

I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay.

I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less.

btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :)

It would be worth it to try to get a friend or someone experianced with soldering to check it out and do the recap, you definitely don't want to do a recap on your first soldering attempt.

I have mainly soldered basic and larger stuff like wires and pipes, not too much small stuff on PCBs. My dad is an old electronics junkie so I'll probably recruit him to guide me through it! (*cough* do it for me *cough*)

dink wrote

yes, that's me!

Small world :) I know I used to use z! and web/2 ... and probably other stuff that has faded from my mind. A very belated thanks for those! I used OS/2 at home from about 1994-2001-ish.

Since you're in the US, you might still be able to find a Radio Shack nearby (a few have recently closed in my area). Just get the generic 25 watt iron they have, some solder, and the desoldering braid.

Flux is optional, but personally I like to use it, just put a dab (don't go overboard with it) on the spot and lay the desoldering braid over it, press the iron over the braid and it should remove the solder from the pads and allow you to remove the capacitor.

Good luck! Whatever you do, DO NOT use the huge soldering "guns" for soldering large wires or torches for soldering pipes. You'll likely burn part of the board and may damage surrounding components.

Maraakate wrote

Since you're in the US, you might still be able to find a Radio Shack nearby (a few have recently closed in my area). Just get the generic 25 watt iron they have, some solder, and the desoldering braid.

Flux is optional, but personally I like to use it, just put a dab (don't go overboard with it) on the spot and lay the desoldering braid over it, press the iron over the braid and it should remove the solder from the pads and allow you to remove the capacitor.

Good luck! Whatever you do, DO NOT use the huge soldering "guns" for soldering large wires or torches for soldering pipes. You'll likely burn part of the board and may damage surrounding components.

Hi, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. There is a Radio Shack about a 5 minute drive from my house that I think might still be in business, or it was last time I drove by that area a few months ago. All of the others that I know about have closed.

I actually have a digital soldering iron similar to this one (mine looks very different but works the same way, I can set it to any temperature): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I30QBW
and I've got a spool of what appears to be this very solder: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJX6

So hopefully I'm okay with using those. What I do not have is flux or desoldering braid so I'll need to pick some up or borrow from my dad's workbench next time I visit him. :) I don't really know what is the ideal temperature to set the iron, to be honest, but I have read that I should try to use the lowest effective temperature which gets the job done to avoid overheating the components.

stlpaul wrote

Small world :) I know I used to use z! and web/2 ... and probably other stuff that has faded from my mind. A very belated thanks for those! I used OS/2 at home from about 1994-2001-ish.

That's awesome, glad someone still remembers :)
I still use z!, even though its been ported to winxp. yea, a p4 running winxp.. hehe... in the late 90's I had dreams of a system this stable. Those were the good old days - when installing 2 nic's and a usb card took half a week trying to get os/2 to stop fighting over irq's.

These days I'm quite thankful and happy for mingw/gcc and fte on this dinosaur of a computer :)

Best of luck on your soldering endevour,
best regards,
- dink

Also O/T, but since the O/T is about OS/2. Do any of you guys still have the Gravis UltraSound Manley Drivers? I have located the drivers online, at the end he made them freeware, but the bonus disk appears to not have been distributed and all leads from that timeframe have come up bust for me.

Maraakate wrote

Also O/T, but since the O/T is about OS/2. Do any of you guys still have the Gravis UltraSound Manley Drivers? I have located the drivers online, at the end he made them freeware, but the bonus disk appears to not have been distributed and all leads from that timeframe have come up bust for me.

Not me, sorry. Most of my old computer stuff got ruined in a flood.

It's been 2 years since I posted this, but I finally got around to doing a full capacitor replacement on my SMS this weekend. Sadly, the weird color problem still persists.

Here are a couple videos showing the problem, if anyone has any suggestions that be great. Even if that suggestion is to transplant the main board from another system... :)

Attached a picture of the board.

Thanks!

IMG_20170903_121845~02~01.jpg (759.36 KB)

Fun necrobump!

I resolved my issue a while back when I got my hands on a proper 3025 power supply. Before that, I was using Genesis 1602s.

Author	Message
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Troubleshooting US Master System with cycling colors Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 5:09 pm
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Hi, recently I obtained a US Master System (old model, no built-in game, only snail maze). It is in beautiful physical condition, absolutely perfect: no dust, no scratches, no fingerprints, the plastic film is still on the console & controllers, owner says it was barely used just a few times in the 1980's and has been in a box ever since. Original power supply, RF, gun, everything is great. BUT... When I turn on the system with a cartridge inserted, most of the time there is a cycling color palette, which seems to be effecting only one color of the palette. So when the SEGA logo shows up from BIOS, the blue part of the logo is changing from blue to purple to red etc. But the black, white, and other things are okay. In-game usually it is the blue color that is cycling, for example the primary color in the title screen logo of R-TYPE is changing colors. During play the colorful part of the ship is cycling colors but the rest of the screen looks okay. If I turn power off and back on, after several attempts, eventually it works normally (SEGA logo is blue and stays blue) and it works fine for my entire gaming session, even if I turn power off and back on again. So it is almost like the system has to "warm up" or something. I have not tried to leave it turned on for an extended period while the colors are cycling to see if it "fixes itself" after some time without powering off and on, but I intend on trying that when I have a chance. Strangely, it seems that when I turn on the system with no cartridge inserted, colors are fine. A few times I tried inserting a cartridge while the system was already powered on and the game started with normal colors. But I don't want to do that and risk damaging the console or the games. I am using the AV/composite cable, same cable I use with my Genesis 1 and it never gave me any trouble before on Genesis. I have not tried the original Sega RF connector yet because I need to use a different TV for that. But I can try it soon. I tried using 2 other known good power supplies from Genesis 1 with no different result, so I don't think it is a power supply problem. I have not tried with a card game yet (I own Spy vs Spy but can't remember where it is stored, since I haven't played it in 25 years). Has anyone encountered this issue before? Any idea what I can look for? I didn't open the console yet so maybe there is a blown capacitor or dead cockroach or something fun waiting for me inside. :)

gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:09 am
gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	I felt it necessary to resurrect this because I'm having the exact same issue! It seems to be an issue only with games with the 315-5235 paging chip.

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:26 am
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator. Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out? best regards, - dink

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:16 am
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	dink wrote It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator. Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out? best regards, - dink I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well. I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay. I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less. btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :)

gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:18 am
gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	dink wrote It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator. Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out? best regards, - dink Just a quick copy & paste from my post on Facebook about it: I'd say this is repro related because I wasn't having this issue until I tried playing a socketed Master System cart with a 315-5235 pager... The system is outputting flashing colors with some games. With the games that have the issue, if I turn the system off and on around 1 in 20 times the colors will be stable. I've tried multiple AC adaptors and AV cables. I've cleaned the cartridge port. if I start up the system without a cartridge, I don't have any issues what the prompt to insert a cartridge or the snail maze. If I insert the socketed cartridge without a ROM on it, I get flashing colors on the prompt to insert a cartridge or the snail maze. I think the system is having trouble with the cartridges that have the 315-5235 pager.

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:15 am
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	For me, it happens with every (original) game I've tried - about a dozen cartridges and one card, and a master everdrive (rev 1.1).

wasup Joined: 05 Nov 2014 Posts: 435 Location: Auckland - NZ	Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:51 am
	Have a look at the power up reset circuit and try changing the capacitor for that. The 315-5235 mapper uses the reset pin too. If the problem is not present with no game plugged in but goes funny as soon as a game plugged in its possible the mapper is putting just enough load on the reset circuit to stuff things up, assuming the cap is out of spec.

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:31 am
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	stlpaul wrote dink wrote It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator. Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out? best regards, - dink I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well. I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay. I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less. btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :) It would be worth it to try to get a friend or someone experianced with soldering to check it out and do the recap, you definitely don't want to do a recap on your first soldering attempt. yes, that's me! best regards, - dink

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:49 am
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	dink wrote stlpaul wrote dink wrote It almost sounds to me like a bad capacitor, possibly near the oscillator. Did you try a different power supply just to rule it out? best regards, - dink I (OP) tried other power supplies with no change in results. I did find my Spy vs Spy card and it happened with that as well. I figured it might be capacitors but I guess there's no way to know without trying it. Everything else seems okay. I'm not really very experienced with a soldering iron but the SMS looks easier to do than the game gear, at least. (I have one of those requiring recap also but have been too intimidated to attempt it myself, so far.) it looks like i can get a set of SMS replacement caps for around 10 bucks or less. btw: are you the same dink who made os/2 software 15-20 years ago or so? :) It would be worth it to try to get a friend or someone experianced with soldering to check it out and do the recap, you definitely don't want to do a recap on your first soldering attempt. I have mainly soldered basic and larger stuff like wires and pipes, not too much small stuff on PCBs. My dad is an old electronics junkie so I'll probably recruit him to guide me through it! (cough do it for me cough) dink wrote yes, that's me! Small world :) I know I used to use z! and web/2 ... and probably other stuff that has faded from my mind. A very belated thanks for those! I used OS/2 at home from about 1994-2001-ish.

Maraakate Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 757 Location: Pennsylvania, USA	Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:40 pm
	Since you're in the US, you might still be able to find a Radio Shack nearby (a few have recently closed in my area). Just get the generic 25 watt iron they have, some solder, and the desoldering braid. Flux is optional, but personally I like to use it, just put a dab (don't go overboard with it) on the spot and lay the desoldering braid over it, press the iron over the braid and it should remove the solder from the pads and allow you to remove the capacitor. Good luck! Whatever you do, DO NOT use the huge soldering "guns" for soldering large wires or torches for soldering pipes. You'll likely burn part of the board and may damage surrounding components.

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:48 pm
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Maraakate wrote Since you're in the US, you might still be able to find a Radio Shack nearby (a few have recently closed in my area). Just get the generic 25 watt iron they have, some solder, and the desoldering braid. Flux is optional, but personally I like to use it, just put a dab (don't go overboard with it) on the spot and lay the desoldering braid over it, press the iron over the braid and it should remove the solder from the pads and allow you to remove the capacitor. Good luck! Whatever you do, DO NOT use the huge soldering "guns" for soldering large wires or torches for soldering pipes. You'll likely burn part of the board and may damage surrounding components. Hi, thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. There is a Radio Shack about a 5 minute drive from my house that I think might still be in business, or it was last time I drove by that area a few months ago. All of the others that I know about have closed. I actually have a digital soldering iron similar to this one (mine looks very different but works the same way, I can set it to any temperature): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I30QBW and I've got a spool of what appears to be this very solder: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJX6 So hopefully I'm okay with using those. What I do not have is flux or desoldering braid so I'll need to pick some up or borrow from my dad's workbench next time I visit him. :) I don't really know what is the ideal temperature to set the iron, to be honest, but I have read that I should try to use the lowest effective temperature which gets the job done to avoid overheating the components.

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:34 am
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	stlpaul wrote Small world :) I know I used to use z! and web/2 ... and probably other stuff that has faded from my mind. A very belated thanks for those! I used OS/2 at home from about 1994-2001-ish. That's awesome, glad someone still remembers :) I still use z!, even though its been ported to winxp. yea, a p4 running winxp.. hehe... in the late 90's I had dreams of a system this stable. Those were the good old days - when installing 2 nic's and a usb card took half a week trying to get os/2 to stop fighting over irq's. These days I'm quite thankful and happy for mingw/gcc and fte on this dinosaur of a computer :) Best of luck on your soldering endevour, best regards, - dink

Maraakate Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 757 Location: Pennsylvania, USA	Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:00 pm
	Also O/T, but since the O/T is about OS/2. Do any of you guys still have the Gravis UltraSound Manley Drivers? I have located the drivers online, at the end he made them freeware, but the bonus disk appears to not have been distributed and all leads from that timeframe have come up bust for me.

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:38 pm
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Maraakate wrote Also O/T, but since the O/T is about OS/2. Do any of you guys still have the Gravis UltraSound Manley Drivers? I have located the drivers online, at the end he made them freeware, but the bonus disk appears to not have been distributed and all leads from that timeframe have come up bust for me. Not me, sorry. Most of my old computer stuff got ruined in a flood.

stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:55 am
stlpaul Joined: 09 Sep 2015 Posts: 12	It's been 2 years since I posted this, but I finally got around to doing a full capacitor replacement on my SMS this weekend. Sadly, the weird color problem still persists. Here are a couple videos showing the problem, if anyone has any suggestions that be great. Even if that suggestion is to transplant the main board from another system... :) Attached a picture of the board. Thanks! IMG_20170903_121845~02~01.jpg (759.36 KB)

gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:40 pm
gunstar9 Joined: 20 Jan 2016 Posts: 8	Fun necrobump! I resolved my issue a while back when I got my hands on a proper 3025 power supply. Before that, I was using Genesis 1602s.

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