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hey,

Is there an application that can convert NTSC to PAL timings for playback on hardware. The ones I have come across have had limits on size, the tune when on rom is over 16k.

VGMs? My player stub supports any size file.

Hey Maxim,

Could you provide a link. Does it change the vgm so the speed of the tune is maintained?

Yes, sort of (only to frame accuracy, sounds OK to me).

http://www.smspower.org/maxim/SMSSoftware/VGMPlayer

Ahh I see, pretty cool :)

I didn't ask the question the best. I am looking to pre process it for inclusion for play using sverx's psglib. Does anyone know of tools to do this?

It's a tricky problem, the result will have aliasing problems. You can use my player and record the output to VGM. I don't know of any tool that can do it, especially to frame accuracy.

Yeah i suspected there would be problems.

Thanks for the info. Will give it a shot and see how it goes.

psidum wrote

I am looking to pre process it for inclusion for play using sverx's psglib. Does anyone know of tools to do this?

PSGlib is frame sync'ed, thus both a PAL and a NTSC tune will convert to the same PSG file.

Yeah the tune works in both NTSC and PAL but is slower in PAL. I want to run it in PAL at NTSC tempo.

Ok, I get it now. If your VGM file is generated from DefleMask or Mod2PSG2 or other tracker, you just need to save a copy of it as PAL (or 50Hz). To convert a NTSC VGM to a PAL one... I have no suggestions, as it will be frame sync'ed only if you've got pauses that are multiple of 6 frames and you convert them to the same multiple of 5 frames (new=old/6*5)

Hmm will talk to the tune author. I have permission to use his tune but he does not seam too interested beyond that.

If you don't mind a bit of jitter, a solution used in some games is to run the sound driver twice every 5th frame, like 1 1 1 1 2. There aren't many other ways to do this in a good way, unfortunately.

That's actually just as good as any other solutions or tool in terms of the resulting sound, but a tool could crunch the data to remove the extra CPU time it would use. I promise I won't write a converter this time if you want to have a go, Tom :) but maybe the PSGlib converter is the best place to do it...

True, no solution would be free of jitter (unless all the waits are multiples of both 5 and 6), therefore it all comes down to the preference of the programmer: using more CPU to process the same data with no significant increase of ROM size, or using the same amount of CPU to process two different sets of data with a potential 2× increase in the ROM size. We can't know if Psidium is anywhere near any of these limits.

edit: I assumed that Psidium requires both NTSC and PAL playback being possible on his project. If he's focusing on PAL only then my point above is invalid since he wouldn't need to store the NTSC version of the song.

Thanks for the info.

I spoke to the author and he used custom python scripts and had no way to convert it to 50hz.

Your solution worked well Tom. Calling sound driver twice every 6th frame to avoid it occurring during percussion. Slightly different speed but works fine on hardware. Trips up most emulators but most were having issues with the tune anyway.

An update it anyone has the same problem.

KiddEd was able to convert tune. Also reduced tune from 24k to 13k. Calindro strikes again!

Author	Message
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	NTSC to PAL timings. Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:10 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	hey, Is there an application that can convert NTSC to PAL timings for playback on hardware. The ones I have come across have had limits on size, the tune when on rom is over 16k.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:16 am
	VGMs? My player stub supports any size file.

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:52 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Hey Maxim, Could you provide a link. Does it change the vgm so the speed of the tune is maintained?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:16 am
	Yes, sort of (only to frame accuracy, sounds OK to me). http://www.smspower.org/maxim/SMSSoftware/VGMPlayer

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:20 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Ahh I see, pretty cool :) I didn't ask the question the best. I am looking to pre process it for inclusion for play using sverx's psglib. Does anyone know of tools to do this?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:36 am Last edited by Maxim on Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
	It's a tricky problem, the result will have aliasing problems. You can use my player and record the output to VGM. I don't know of any tool that can do it, especially to frame accuracy.

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:45 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Yeah i suspected there would be problems. Thanks for the info. Will give it a shot and see how it goes.

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3811 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:18 am
	psidum wrote I am looking to pre process it for inclusion for play using sverx's psglib. Does anyone know of tools to do this? PSGlib is frame sync'ed, thus both a PAL and a NTSC tune will convert to the same PSG file.

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:40 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Yeah the tune works in both NTSC and PAL but is slower in PAL. I want to run it in PAL at NTSC tempo.

sverx Joined: 05 Sep 2013 Posts: 3811 Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:51 am
	Ok, I get it now. If your VGM file is generated from DefleMask or Mod2PSG2 or other tracker, you just need to save a copy of it as PAL (or 50Hz). To convert a NTSC VGM to a PAL one... I have no suggestions, as it will be frame sync'ed only if you've got pauses that are multiple of 6 frames and you convert them to the same multiple of 5 frames (new=old/6*5)

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:55 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Hmm will talk to the tune author. I have permission to use his tune but he does not seam too interested beyond that.

Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:07 am
Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	If you don't mind a bit of jitter, a solution used in some games is to run the sound driver twice every 5th frame, like 1 1 1 1 2. There aren't many other ways to do this in a good way, unfortunately.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14732 Location: London	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:14 am
	That's actually just as good as any other solutions or tool in terms of the resulting sound, but a tool could crunch the data to remove the extra CPU time it would use. I promise I won't write a converter this time if you want to have a go, Tom :) but maybe the PSGlib converter is the best place to do it...

Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:23 am
Tom Joined: 16 May 2002 Posts: 1356 Location: italy	True, no solution would be free of jitter (unless all the waits are multiples of both 5 and 6), therefore it all comes down to the preference of the programmer: using more CPU to process the same data with no significant increase of ROM size, or using the same amount of CPU to process two different sets of data with a potential 2× increase in the ROM size. We can't know if Psidium is anywhere near any of these limits. edit: I assumed that Psidium requires both NTSC and PAL playback being possible on his project. If he's focusing on PAL only then my point above is invalid since he wouldn't need to store the NTSC version of the song.

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:04 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Thanks for the info. I spoke to the author and he used custom python scripts and had no way to convert it to 50hz. Your solution worked well Tom. Calling sound driver twice every 6th frame to avoid it occurring during percussion. Slightly different speed but works fine on hardware. Trips up most emulators but most were having issues with the tune anyway.

psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:56 am
psidum Joined: 01 Jan 2014 Posts: 331	An update it anyone has the same problem. KiddEd was able to convert tune. Also reduced tune from 24k to 13k. Calindro strikes again!

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