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View topic - Shinobi Kidd vs. Mari-Oh: EGM, 1989

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Shinobi Kidd vs. Mari-Oh: EGM, 1989
Post Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:58 pm
I'm just finishing up some maps and was Googling for some details when this page popped up with:

kokobon wrote
An ancient preview of this game in an issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly from 1989 calls the game Shinobi Kidd. The first boss in the game is a large samurai called Kabuto. However, in the preview they showed a screen of the same boss, and he looked all too much like a beloved plumber of which everybody knows. And his name was MARI-OH. MARI-OH. What was Sega thinking? Thank god they changed things around before it got ugly.


Do we have any old magazine collectors who can verify this? Maybe get us a scan?
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:17 pm
Have this, will post tonight.
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 3:56 pm
Yes, I have this issue too. But it's tucked away in Canada...

It's the same issue that shows some other unreleased games (like more SMS ones? and Xybots for the Turbografx, etc...
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Alex Kidd in Shinobi World with Mario
Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:35 am


(thanks Jess Ragan for the scan)

Maybe can someone check if the graphics data are still hidden in the final game/ROM?

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:21 am
Last edited by Maxim on Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:22 am; edited 2 times in total
Cool :) Taking a quick look, the Alex character tiles are still in the rom, but the Mari-Oh ones seem not to be. It looks like they drew a "Mandara" boss image, too, for the level from Shinobi that didn't get to this version. (I'm not greatly familiar with Shinobi, but that thing looks a bit like a mandala, however more so than in any Shinobi screenshot I could find.)

(This image is 3x scaled for your viewing pleasure.)
alex_kidd_in_shinobi_world_02_517.png (2.34 KB)
Alex Kidd in Shinobi World unused tiles
alex_kidd_in_shinobi_world_02_517.png

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:32 am
So the main character was supposed to be a mini Joe Musashi, not Alex Kidd?
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:40 am
I think they just wavered between how much it looked like Alex Kidd and how much it looked like Joe Musashi - notice the trademark Alex Kidd long-hair-in-front-of-the-ears things. The final design looks much more like Alex.
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:15 pm
Holy shit, this is awesome!
 
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:22 am
errm yeah try to refrain from the swearing ICEKnight,

but yes this topic was of great interest to alot of people. Was this ever an official release? or was it just a game hack?
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:24 am
Jacko wrote
errm yeah try to refrain from the swearing ICEKnight,

but yes this topic was of great interest to alot of people. Was this ever an official release? or was it just a game hack?


It's not a hack. It's from when they were working on Alex Kidd in Shinobi World.
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:28 am
Oh right,

thanks for that CRV
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:44 pm
That's sweet. I wonder what else is buried in the rom?
 
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:00 pm
I had a good look through. The ROM is actually very wasteful - huge amounts of space are blank. There's a lot of uncompressed sprite art which will pop right out in Tile Layer. Background graphics are compressed in the usual way, so my tile decoder tool can show them; nothing exceptional turned up in my search. I'm sure they could have got another level in the ROM if they'd actually tried to optimise the space usage.
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:00 am
Maxim wrote
... the trademark Alex Kidd long-hair-in-front-of-the-ears things.

Sideburns? ;)

Nezuji :)
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:16 am
Nope :) Sideburns are a beard-based affectation and thus grow out of the cheeks of a man; Alex Kidd just grows his hair long in front of his ears. "Sidelocks" is apparently the word I was grasping for.
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:08 am
Maxim wrote
Nope :) Sideburns are a beard-based affectation and thus grow out of the cheeks of a man; Alex Kidd just grows his hair long in front of his ears. "Sidelocks" is apparently the word I was grasping for.

Oh, OK. I looked again at some pictures of Alex and I see what you mean. But isn't Alex Kidd's look supposed to be loosely based on Son Goku, the Monkey King from Journey to the West? That's why I was thinking sideburns.

Nezuji :)
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:41 pm
Jacko wrote
errm yeah try to refrain from the swearing ICEKnight,

Too late?


=(
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Shinobi Kid preview
Post Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:08 pm
From UK "S - The Sega Mag", issue 4, march 1990.
CES Show Report.

Along wih the price redution, Sega announced that there will continue to be new titles released for the Master System, and many were on display. As well as games already featured in S there were new up-and-coming titles such as Ultima IV, Golfamania, [b]Shinobi Kid[/b], Assault City, Slapshot plus Super Monago GP and [b]Simple Fighter[/b] (both announced but not shown) and R.C. Grand Prix from Absolute Entertainment, although none of the previous third party licenses (Activision, Parker Brothers, Epyx) plan to release new titles for the Master System.

Of these, Shinobi Kid was about the best. The tune is from Shinobi, but the Character is a small kid. He has some of the same moves and a new power: instead of walking through the screens, he can grab the occasional lamp pole or bar and start spinning faster and faster around it. Pushing the button releases him and he flies across several screens, knocking out any bad guys alongs the way. The screen scrolls horizontally and sometimes vertically downward into a maze and then back up to ground level. At the end of each level, after he rescues all the tied-up hostages, he must fight the end-of-level boss. One is called Mari-Oh (as a sideswipe at Ni****do's Mario character). Defeat Mari-Oh and he shrinks down in size and disappears.
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:28 pm
Just a note about the name Mari-oh. The suffix "-oh" means 'king', 'lord', etc., so Mari-oh means something like 'King Mari', but of course sounds like the name of the (in?)famous plumber. So, like a lot of things, the nuance gets lost in translation.
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Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:01 am
Also remember that the original name for this boss in Shinobi is Ken-Oh.
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:39 am
Heh, Shinobi Kid fits it very well! :-)
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:20 pm
I was scanning a few things today including a Tec Toy brocher/ poster.. I noticed an odd screen shot for Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, Playgeneration elerted me to this thread which kinda explains it..

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n45/jamescostello/akswbetter.jpg

The truck doesnt appear in the final game, plus its clearly the 'shinobi kid' thats in the other screen shots on this thread, same with his energy bar icons.
akswbetter.jpg (75.91 KB)
akswbetter.jpg

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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:41 am
How couldn't I remeber that one? When I was a kid I always wondered from where that pic came from :(
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:11 am
That's great!
I'd never seen that screenshot. I wonder what else was removed from the final game, and what other graphics/stages/fun stuff didn't make it to the final product we got.

I always thought AKISW was a fucking great game, a bit too easy (cool with me because I never was a really good videogame player), but a bit too short too. A couple more stages would have made the game much greater.

So maybe the game had nothing to do with Alex Kidd in its early developement stages and was just a cartoonish Shinobi 'revision'? And maybe they later thought that it would do better in shops if they added the Alex Kidd character.
I'd love to see all the discarded graphics, sprites and I think it would have been amazing if they had finally released the game with Mari-Oh as the first boss... it would have been certainly a unique feature in videogames at that time!

Makes you wonder about how much stuff has been deleted/censored/discarded from all the SMS games we love, because of it being rude, offensive, weird, stupid, because of violence, nudity...

Wouldn't it have been cool if, instead of adding all the Shinobi look-a-like characters and stages, they had added some elements from the Alex Kidd series too? Maybe it wouldn't have made sense with the final storyline about Alex traveling to the Shinobi parallel dimension (it was something like that, wasn't it?), but I'd love to see the skull-shitting punk from The Lost Stars :D


aksbpunk.png (3.52 KB)
aksbpunk.png

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:49 pm
Necro-post!

That Tec Toy screenshot was also featured in a US "Sega for The 90's: The New Generation" catalogue/promotional leaflet, labelled as "Shinobi II":

http://www.smspower.org/Scans/Sega-Catalogue-SegaForThe90s-US?gallerypage=4

...but confusingly, "Alex Kidd in Shinobi World" is also listed on the same page.
ShinobiII.png (82.26 KB)
ShinobiII.png

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:41 pm
Nice you can see more of the screen in this shot.

This has to be one of if not the most desired SMS rom that has never surfaced. I managed to contact DreamTR a while ago as it was rumored he had an Alex Kidd in Shinobi World proto cart, which he did, so I sent him the screenshots and with some persuading he actually fired up the cart and had a look and unfortunately it wasn't Shinobi Kid.

Maybe one day it will surface ...
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:56 am
An unfinished mini-game has been discovered in a prototype Super Shinobi rom. It features a chibi Joe Musashi, maybe this is where Shinobi Kidd evolved from? Super Shinobi released in December 1989, so the prototype may well pre-date the Shinobi Kidd seen in magazines.





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Post Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:08 pm
A rom from the original Shinobi Kid would be awesome!

Isn´t there a prototype cartridge or something? If found, maybe it could be dumped to a rom.

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Post Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:20 pm
Here's the full page from EGM #9, along with some other prototypes such as Slap Shoot that were featured at the 1990 Winter CES.

Edit: Added the review for Ultima IV , which didn't end up getting released in the US.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:12 pm
These are great thanks!

It is interesting that the Shinobi Kidd article definitely acknowledges it as a deliberate crossover between Shinobi and Alex Kidd, before it became Alex Kidd in Shinobi World. It also uses "dd" in the spelling of "Kidd".

I mention this because other articles seem to indicate that it wasn't originally intended to have anything to do with Alex Kidd, similar to the history of Alex Kidd in High Tech World. Check out the Wikipedia article for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Kidd_in_Shinobi_World

It quotes an article from S: The Sega Magazine that calls the game Shinobi Kid with only 1 "d", and just calls him a small kid with no mention of Alex Kidd.
Quote
Of these, Shinobi Kid was about the best. The tune is from Shinobi, but the Character is a small kid.


Alex Kidd in Miracle World was such a pivotal game, that took gaming to the next level for me, compared with my experiences with the Atari 2600 and Commodore 64. I was always a little disappointed with the Alex Kidd games that came afterwards, with the exception of Shinobi World, which I though was excellent. Then to learn they just stuck Alex Kidd in there, took away something from that. This article challenges that assumption and indicates that perhaps it was always intended to be a crossover game between Shinobi and Alex Kidd.

You need to find this rom for us Bock {^_^}
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:17 pm
Turns out the Mari-Oh graphics are still in the ROM. In fact, they're still in the tileset for the stage title cards. The programmers load the title card tileset then simply load some more tiles over the top of the "controversial" ones. This seems to have been a last-minute thing as the Kabuto patch tiles are tacked on right at the back end of the ROM.


Edit: sorry for the huge screenshot. HiDPI screens are a blessing and a curse...
Untitled.png (8.78 KB)
Untitled.png

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:25 pm
Ah, I missed that when constructing the player image tiles way up above. Maybe there's more in there than previously thought? Player graphics would be awesome...
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:41 am
Awesome find! Can somebody make a patch which implements the original graphics?
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:19 am
It's easy enough to do by hand, although you can make an IPS if you need one. Here are the offsets and patch values:


Restore Shinobi Kid (nop out the call that patches the name table):
0x158D: 00 00 00

Restore Mari-Oh (early exit from a function that loads the patch tiles):
0x70D2: C3
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:27 pm
Thanks, got it to work.

I wonder if there is anything else hidden in this rom?
ShinobiKidd.png (7.64 KB)
ShinobiKidd.png

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:30 pm
I've made an IPS for those that need it:

http://www.smspower.org/Hacks/AlexKiddInShinobiWorld-SMS-GraphicsRestoration-Mod
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:16 am
Thanks, I've been meaning to take a look at this, but this will save me some time.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:42 pm
While it would be amazing if there was an alternate character sprite set and title screen in the ROM, if there isn't then I wonder if it might be an interesting project for someone to extend the mod to add them in.

The Mari-Oh to Kabuto patch doesn't just remove the moustache, it also gives him white eyes instead of black. Does that have some cultural significance I'm unaware of?
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:46 pm
It's been a bit slow going, this past week, but I'm still digging around in the ROM. There's still lots of exploring to do.

I've yet to split out the character tiles (getting there... slowly). I don't expect to find the original character art anywhere but, as Maxim said, it shouldn't be too difficult to redraw them.
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:33 pm
Finding unused level data would be amazing (but unlikely). Still there is the mystery of rounds 4 and 5!

http://www.smspower.org/forums/11442-AlexKiddInShinobiWorldUnusedTiles



If only the Shinobi Kidd cartridge would turn up somewhere!
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:38 pm
I've just been having a look into the code and it looks like the original "MARI-OH" text is in there as well, but gets patched over. I don't really know what I'm doing but if you change the value of ROM address 3A7 to A2 you can see how it would look.

The text is located at ROM address 2A92D. There's also some text for "SUPPON" (2AAF3), the mystery boss perhaps? It is between the text for "HELLI" and "ROBSTER" (levels 2&3). On the map this area is a stretch of water, so perhaps some kind of water level was removed?

EDIT: So some quick googling leads me to believe that 'Suppon' is Japanese for turtle. The unused boss sprite does sort of look like a turtle shell. Also, the Heli boss was original called "HELLI", but that also gets patched over. You can remove this patch by changing the value of ROM address 15CC to 00.

I believe the code at 1788 also patches the round numbers. Changing that value to 00 will make Round 3 appear as Round 4, and Round 4 to appear as Round 5, supporting the theory of a removed Round 3.

EDIT 2: So just remembered that the level 2 boss in the original Shinobi was called 'Black Turtle'. Perhaps they were going to do a literal parody, like they did with 'Lobster'.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:52 am
It was such a short and great game. Why they would remove Round Three is beyond me. I do think the Round 3 boss would likely be based on Mandara. What do the unused tiles and boss in AKiSW look like, for example? Also, can someone provide me the ripped Mari-Oh sprites (from the AKiSW restoration hack)?

I have yet to see any of these.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:28 pm
Just to mention as well, there is an unused track in the game. Perhaps another indicator that a level was removed
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:31 am
It's great to see people are still looking at this. I've had little time to work on the disassembly over the last few months. I'd welcome pull requests from anybody that's continuing the research.
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:19 pm
Game Player's #9 (March 1990) report on the 1990 Winter CES also has the same screenshot seen in the TecToy and "Sega for The 90's" catalogues. The life-bar is different (solid bar) to the off-screen shots taken at the show in EGM (triangles as in the retail release), so it looks like they come from two different builds.

The "round card" prototype screen has six digits for the score, but in the retail release there is only five digits. Possibly another hint at a cut level (I'm guessing that it's no longer possible to score 100,000 prior to the final round, but I haven't attempted to do that yet).

In the Game Player's CES article they also mention that "Mega Anser" (Mega Drive online banking software) is already available in Japan. Sik on Sega-16 has noticed that this software features a version of the Shinobi World tune "The Battle with the Dark Ninja".



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Post Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:28 pm
So I had another look at the ROM and found a couple more interesting things.

The tile layout data for the original round 3 title card is still in the ROM along with its accompanying palette. You can restore these with a quick patch.

Restore original Round 3 title card:
0x17FA: 40 80 (palette)
0x1802: 6C AA (tile layout data)

Restore Shinobi Kid:
0x158D: 00 00 00

Restore "HELLI" text:
0x15CC: 00

Restore "ROUND 4"and "ROUND 5" title cards:
0x1788: 00

Restore "MARI-OH" text
0x1793: 00

Restore Mari-Oh portrait:
0x70D2: C3

Also, I noticed that several of the tiles on the map screen go unused as a new set of tiles gets patched in (for the round 3 location) and used instead. By using the original tiles and the order they're loaded, I've mocked up what I believe to be a pretty accurate orginal version of the map (See attached image). It seems a jungle-style round and a waterfall-style round were originally separate but were then merged together later on into one level (round 3).

Also, tile $14A never gets used and it's clear from the code that it was later replaced with tile $1AF (which gets patched in), indicating a change in the map layout. However, what the developers missed was that replacing the tile at $1AF actually messed up the 'temple' location graphic for Round 4. See highlighted in attached image.

It would be interested to see if someone can figure out where the level layout data is and whether any of it's unused.
map-mock-up.png (5.87 KB)
map-mock-up.png
aksw-suppon.png (2.96 KB)
aksw-suppon.png
map-tile-error.png (4.36 KB)
map-tile-error.png

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Post Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:48 am
Amazing. This is my favourite Master System mystery and it's always a joy to see people find more clues about Shinobi Kid. Good job!
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