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SMS/GG Dumper
Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:28 pm
Last edited by lykanthrocide on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hi, everyone! N00b to these forums so please go easy on me.

I'm looking to build something that I can use to dump GG games and have snooped around a bit in various forums including this one for info. The Retrode forum is a ghost town and everywhere that sells the SMS converter is sold out of them so buying one and/or using the Retrode SMS plug-in adapter is not really an option right now.

Looking around here, though, yields quite a few possibilities for a dedicated dumper.

This seems to be the most promising.

From what I can tell, it's a refined version of the SMS Reader and uses the same parts as listed here.

Though this is for SMS carts, I'm guessing based on this that I could adapt it for the GG somehow.



Aside from keeping track of my progress, I'm also making this post to ask for help. Circuitry isn't really my forté, and I have an amateur level of experience with this sort of thing (backlighting DMGs, building/tweaking/making an adapter for this (github. com/sanni/cartreader). That said, I have a few questions:

1. Some of the information listed above (especially the info for the SMSReader) is very old. Have there been any updates on its design/components/anything-in-general or is it still the go-to DIY method outside of using dumpers like the Retrode?

2. How would I go about ordering the PCB shown in the first forum post above?

3. Would a USB to LPT adapter be suitable for this project?

4. Does the software that goes with the SMSReader work for GG games or do I need to adapt it for the GG somehow?

BONUS: I recall somewhere in my research here someone mentioning the possibility of making an all-in-one dumper for both the SMS and the GG that has a switch (or something?) that allows for swapping between the two. Can anyone offer guidance on how to do that?

BONUS2: Would it be possible to make a reader/adapter for the Mark III as well? I have Japanese copies of Fantasy Zone and Fantasy Zone II, but no way to play them. I'd like to dump them if I can (Not necessary, but cool if it isn't too complicated/difficult).

Thank you all very much for your community and for any help you offer.

(Sorry for the clunky links. Just type in smspower.org and copy/paste the rest of the URLs to get to the pages to which I refer. Apparently spammers make it difficult for newcomers and non-registered posters here. That sucks...)
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:58 pm
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Have there been any updates on its design/components/anything-in-general or is it still the go-to DIY method outside of using dumpers like the Retrode?

Not really - but SMSReader is not really usable at more either. We need a microcontroller update.

Quote
How would I go about ordering the PCB shown in the first forum post above?

There are several PCB manufacture companies but in general you'd be expected to manage the layout work yourself - you may not be able to just use the posted files.

Quote
Would a USB to LPT adapter be suitable for this project?

Probably not. Most only support the parallel port mode used by printers - SMS Reader uses an older mode which they seem to rarely support. It's also hard to support on newer versions of Windows - the last time I updated it was too get it working on XP, which involved running as admin and loading a special driver. Newer Windows blocks this.

Quote
Does the software that goes with the SMSReader work for GG games or do I need to adapt it for the GG somehow?

Finally some good news - the cartridges are basically just different layouts of the same pins, no software difference is needed. In fact, you can make a reader with SMS, GG and SG/Japanese cartridge ports on it all wired together and it works fine provided you only plug in one cartridge.

The best option these days would probably be something based on Everdrive and an SMS1, booting from the Everdrive and then dumping the cartridge from the expansion port. Failing that, a microcontroller based solution is needed - to enable dumping via USB, like Retrode. But a real system is likely to be more compatible. Sadly I don't think this is close to reality any time soon. The most useful thing would be a cartridge converter to enable dumping the GG and Japanese stuff via an SMS, which is really just physical connections and sourcing the edge connectors (which is especially tough for GG).
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:28 am
The Universal Mega Dumper - you just need to convince René to build a GG interface (which shouldn't be too hard, I mean build the interface)
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:36 pm
Last edited by lykanthrocide on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
sverx wrote
The Universal Mega Dumper - you just need to convince René to build a GG interface (which shouldn't be too hard, I mean build the interface)


This looks super cool! However, I've already built [url=github.com/sanni/cartreader]sanni's ROM Dumper[/url]. Serious question: what would be the difference between trying to convince the people on the arduino forum for that dumper to build a GG adapter and trying to convince René to build an adapter? From what I can tell, René's is one where you swap out the cart slot?

Maxim wrote
Not really - but SMSReader is not really usable at more either. We need a microcontroller update.

There are several PCB manufacture companies but in general you'd be expected to manage the layout work yourself - you may not be able to just use the posted files.

Probably not. Most only support the parallel port mode used by printers - SMS Reader uses an older mode which they seem to rarely support. It's also hard to support on newer versions of Windows - the last time I updated it was too get it working on XP, which involved running as admin and loading a special driver. Newer Windows blocks this.


Well, there goes that idea...however:

Maxim wrote
The best option these days would probably be something based on Everdrive and an SMS1, booting from the Everdrive and then dumping the cartridge from the expansion port.


This intrigues me. I opened up my SMS to see what you meant by "expansion port" and I assume is the series of pins at the back of the console's circuit board? How is that supposed to be used (both in general and specifically in the way that you mention)?

Maxim wrote
Failing that, a microcontroller based solution is needed - to enable dumping via USB, like Retrode.


Well, I have a Retrode and am willing to make use of it. I got another idea last night:

The guy who built the prototype for the Retrode SMS plug-in sacrificed a Genesis cart by taking off the ROM chip and soldering a GG slot and a SMS slot to the cart:

consolingmyself.co.uk/post/11712497049/retrode-sms-and-gg-adapter

consolingmyself.co.uk/post/15862512292/retrode-sms-and-gg-adapter-part-2

www.flickr.com/photos/consolingmyself/with/6691302909/

I believe it was done with a CodeMasters cartridge, but I'm willing to to do the same thing with a spare Sonic 2 cartridge and a slot from a soundless Game Gear. Would such a beast work with the Retrode?
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:10 pm
Regarding the expansion port: it operates as a third cartridge slot, it can be trivially converted to one - see http://www.smspower.org/Shop/GenderAdapter . It is then possible to write software (running on the Master System itself) to read from one cartridge and write to another. This offers almost the ultimate in compatibility - the source cartridge is being accessed by a real Master System.

The Game Gear is electrically and electronically almost identical to the Master System, it is possible to make a cartridge adaptor. This adaptor is useless for running almost all games due to small incompatibilities, but it is likely to work very well for dumping cartridges - the host software will operate identically.

Dumping from a microcontroller requires simulating all the cartridge inputs. This can be tricky - not all cartridges use the same inputs beyond the address and data pins. There can also be issues with 5V vs 3.3V electronics. So it can be tricky to be as compatible.

Retrode complicates things a bit more because next we need to adapt it to the Mega Drive port. It's still just an electrical mapping though - address lines to address lines, data lines to data lines, and maybe some control signals. From the linked pages, it seems it also requires firmware support (as the process happens in-device) but presumably that is released. Reading and writing save games should also be possible. Compatibility will be as good as possible for the available signals. If you can solder things, you can make the adaptor - the pin mapping is at http://consolingmyself.co.uk/post/18692678762/retrode-sms-gg-plug-in-adapter-pin... .
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:59 pm
Maxim wrote
Regarding the expansion port: it operates as a third cartridge slot, it can be trivially converted to one - see (dot)smspower(dot)org/Shop/GenderAdapter . It is then possible to write software (running on the Master System itself) to read from one cartridge and write to another. This offers almost the ultimate in compatibility - the source cartridge is being accessed by a real Master System.

The Game Gear is electrically and electronically almost identical to the Master System, it is possible to make a cartridge adaptor. This adaptor is useless for running almost all games due to small incompatibilities, but it is likely to work very well for dumping cartridges - the host software will operate identically.


That's super cool! Unfortunately, if I'm not mistaken, it requires a SMS flash cart, right? Those are super expensive, and it would probably cost me about as much to make and/or buy a cart dumper...

Maxim wrote
Dumping from a microcontroller requires simulating all the cartridge inputs. This can be tricky - not all cartridges use the same inputs beyond the address and data pins. There can also be issues with 5V vs 3.3V electronics. So it can be tricky to be as compatible.


This is also news to me. I never quite knew how the Retrode works.


Maxim wrote
Retrode complicates things a bit more because next we need to adapt it to the Mega Drive port. It's still just an electrical mapping though - address lines to address lines, data lines to data lines, and maybe some control signals. From the linked pages, it seems it also requires firmware support (as the process happens in-device) but presumably that is released. Reading and writing save games should also be possible. Compatibility will be as good as possible for the available signals. If you can solder things, you can make the adaptor - the pin mapping is at consolingmyself(dot)co(dot)uk/post/18692678762/retrode-sms-gg-plug-in-adapter-pin-out .


Okay, I can solder. So all I need to do is match the pins in the GG slot to the appropriate holes in the Sonic 2 cart? Will the project require any drilling of holes into the cart or will the holes left by the removed ROM chip be enough? (Sorry, not at home now, so I can't take a look at the cart).
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:53 pm
You want to remove all components from the donor MD cart and then connect up according to the pin list, which means either soldering wires to the tops of the edge connector pins or tracing connections to other soldering locations. Most will probably go straight to the ROM.

Securely fixing the GG connector may be tricky. You don't want to have any strain on the soldered connections.
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:54 pm
Maxim wrote
You want to remove all components from the donor MD cart


So remove everything from the pcb including any capacitors?

Maxim wrote

then connect up according to the pin list, which means either soldering wires to the tops of the edge connector pins or tracing connections to other soldering locations. Most will probably go straight to the ROM.


What kind of wires do you recommend? Also, if I solder wires to the tops of the pins, wouldn't that make it difficult to insert the MD pcb?

Maxim wrote

Securely fixing the GG connector may be tricky. You don't want to have any strain on the soldered connections.


Would gluing the slot to the MD pcb be a viable option?
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:44 pm
The tops of the pins don't make contact, but it's tricky to solder to them. The ROM holes are clearly easier to get to, but if they are connected via a capacitor or resistor then it will interfere somewhat. It's unlikely to matter though, they shouldn't be on the address or data lines and that only leaves the power connections.

Old IDE cables seem popular for this sort of thing as the ribbon can help you out. An older cable with thicker wires would probably help, a newer 80 connector would be a bit small. Also, shorter is better to avoid signal degradation.

Gluing the slot is probably fine provided you use the right sort of glue, something with flex will be better (no super glue).
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:18 pm
Last edited by lykanthrocide on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Maxim wrote
The tops of the pins don't make contact, but it's tricky to solder to them. The ROM holes are clearly easier to get to, but if they are connected via a capacitor or resistor then it will interfere somewhat. It's unlikely to matter though, they shouldn't be on the address or data lines and that only leaves the power connections.

Old IDE cables seem popular for this sort of thing as the ribbon can help you out. An older cable with thicker wires would probably help, a newer 80 connector would be a bit small. Also, shorter is better to avoid signal degradation.

Gluing the slot is probably fine provided you use the right sort of glue, something with flex will be better (no super glue).


Great! Thanks for the tips!

Another question: would the following two products be viable options instead of sacrificing my Sonic 2 cartridge

www.raphnet-tech.com/products/brd_sms2smd/index.php
www.raphnet-tech.com/products/brd_markIII_to_smd/index.php

or is there an uncertainty that they'll work with the Retrode? For the record, I'd use the SMS/MD converter as a GG/MD converter.

Also, how I would I use an IDE? Ribbons are nice, but how would I plug it into the holes?

Also also, of what type of material should the wires be? I have some copper coils lying around. Can I use those?
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:34 pm
(PS: You should be able to post links (they are disabled when you have less than 5 posts on the forum), you may also edit your old post with links now.)
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:38 pm
Those Mega Drive adaptors are non trivial so more likely to cause trouble. Surely there are some terrible games you can get cheap?

If the Retrode supports dumping Master System games via a Power Base Converter equivalent then you could make use of that - but I suspect it does not.

IDE cables: cut the connector off, peel the wires apart and strip them. I think the they have solid aluminium cores. Solid core copper will be fine too, but 28ish wires can become a mess, the ribbon helps keep things together somewhat.
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:09 pm
They are available for a few years, but too expensive.
http://www.gamebank-web.com/product/170

Also there's someone in China that makes this type of devices and his prices on taobao are a lot better. The bad part is that he asks 28usd for shipping.
http://www.famulator.com/
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:52 pm
Hey, gorgyrip! Thanks for the tips!

gorgyrip wrote

They are available for a few years, but too expensive.
http://www.gamebank-web.com/product/170


I've actually seen this on ebay for an even higher price. Way too much for my budget for too little use.

gorgyrip wrote

Also there's someone in China that makes this type of devices and his prices on taobao are a lot better. The bad part is that he asks 28usd for shipping.
http://www.famulator.com/


I didn't see one for the Game Gear and it would be too great an effort for me to ask for him to make one. I already have two dumpers made with microcontrollers, one of which has a MD slot. I'll stick with building an adapter for that one. Thanks again, though.

EDIT: I just noticed something about the pinout connections on Consoling Myself. The chart says that I need to connect GG pins 16, 17, and 18 to MD cart pins A1, A18, and A32 respectively. I can do 17 to A18 just fine—there's a hole there for ROM chip pins—but how should I connect 16 and 18 to A1 and A32? Could I use the holes left by the removed capacitors? Or do I need to solder the cart slot pins 16 and 18 directly to the copper of pins A1 and A32 on the cartridge?
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:01 pm
Yes, you can connect to the capacitor holes (obviously pick the side leading to the cartridge connector).
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:19 am
Sorry to resurrect a two-month-old thread, but a bit of progress and a couple mistakes have been made.

First, I went ahead and bought the Retrode SMS adapter. It just came in the mail today. I was very excited, opened it up, and tried my hardest to get a GG cart slot into the holes. Getting the cart slot in is one of the most frustrating things I've ever done. Unfortunately, pin 7 and pin 24 broke off at the point where they bend.

Are the 7th and 24th pins necessary to dump a GG cartridge's ROM data?
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:29 am
Yes, they are A5 and /CE, both are important.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:49 am
Good luck! I recently bought some GG connectors with the intent of soldering one to the Retrode2 PlugIn Master but haven't done that yet — your experiences will definitely lead to additional caution during my attempt, and since I'm a soldering novice, doubly so.

I have found PMs on the Retrode forums to get more responses than forum comments, fwiw. Skaman sold me one of his Mark III adapters recently and it works great (but no GG support of course, and the SG-1000 compatibility is not 100%)

Not sure how close it is to what you want, but I've had a fairly good success rate (not 100%, but almost all of my GG carts are readable) with the Tengu GG dumper from Peter Byemu a.k.a. famulator. It partially works as a USB mass storage device but works much better with his custom Windows client software. gamebank-web resells it but I actually bought it from their Amazon JP listing instead. I think Peter Byemu sells some others on his Taobao shop too, including some sort of SMS dumper adapter combo I haven't yet tried. I have used the Tengu GG dumper with a Gear Master to dump some SMS carts, but Retrode2 seems to succeed sometimes where Tengu does not.

edit: to clarify, <100% sg-1000 compatibility is a widespread issue and probably in no way the fault of skaman's adapter — the only "modern" device I have that actually reads these correctly is the RetroFreak, and afaik there's not yet any way to use that dumper or its output from a regular PC
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:04 am
OKAY! WONDERFUL NEWS! I soldered a stripped wire to the appropriate pins that broke off and, with my wife's help, I got the cart slot soldered to the adapter!!

So far I've successfully dumped the following:

- Madou Monogatari I
- Sonic The Hedgehog
- The Lion King
- Super Off Road

I have other games to dump, but right now, there are two in particular that are giving me trouble: Defenders of Oasis and Sonic 2.

Defenders of Oasis will boot up in Fusion 3.64 and in MasterBoy on my PSP, but it just shows the Sega logo (which swooshes in which is really cool) and then plays one note with a blue screen and freezes.

Sonic 2 won't even boot up.

I compared my dump of Defenders of Oasis to a clean dump in a hex editor, and it turns out that it's half the size that it should be (0x3FFFF instead of 0x7FFFF). Sonic 2 is just blank, but it's common enough (and probably beaten up enough) that I'm not as concerned with it as I am with Defenders of Oasis.

Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

bsittler wrote
Good luck! I recently bought some GG connectors with the intent of soldering one to the Retrode2 PlugIn Master but haven't done that yet — your experiences will definitely lead to additional caution during my attempt, and since I'm a soldering novice, doubly so.


Very cool! Fair warning, be very careful: the pins are very sensitive and can bend very easily. Just to be clear on the soldering instructions, if you're attaching it to the Retrode SMS plug-in, it should be on the front side of the plug-in. I made the terrible mistake of putting it on the wrong side which was incredibly frustrating.

bsittler wrote
I have found PMs on the Retrode forums to get more responses than forum comments, fwiw. Skaman sold me one of his Mark III adapters recently and it works great (but no GG support of course, and the SG-1000 compatibility is not 100%)


Good to know. When I have the money, maybe I'll hit him up for one.

bsittler wrote
Not sure etc.


The main reason I wanted to use the Retrode option is because of the price. I didn't want to break my wallet on something that has one function (a dedicated dumper) when I could get something with multiple functions (the SMS adapter) for a fraction of the price. (Shout out to the owner of Dragon Box who was kind enough to give me a discount due to unusual circumstances). Thanks for the references, though :3
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:39 am
lykanthrocide wrote
OKAY! WONDERFUL NEWS! I soldered a stripped wire to the appropriate pins that broke off and, with my wife's help, I got the cart slot soldered to the adapter!!

So far I've successfully dumped the following:

- Madou Monogatari I
- Sonic The Hedgehog
- The Lion King
- Super Off Road

I have other games to dump, but right now, there are two in particular that are giving me trouble: Defenders of Oasis and Sonic 2.


That's great news! If you haven't yet, I recommend updating to the latest Retrode2 firmware from the SMS-specific forum threads (I'm running .24a) and — if that alone isn't sufficient — to make a backup of RETRODE.CFG and edit that and then copy it back to the Retrode2, detach, and reattach. Specifically, at least for SMS games I often needed to use forceSystem (I used sms of course) and forceSize (typically 4 — I believe it's counting megabits so that should be 512 kbytes)
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:42 am
Sega games have a header at $7ff0 which includes an indication of the ROM size. However it's not required to be accurate, so dumpers need to use heuristics to judge the true size. This may explain your incorrectly sized dump.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:53 am
In doubt, dump 512 KB, see if second half is the same of the 1st half - split and, in case, repeat.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:14 pm
Except... some 256KB games were manufactured on 512KB ROMs (apparently), with the second half blank (00 or FF), so you also have to trim that off. Alternatively, you can dump small chunks at power-of-two sizes and look for where they repeat; but this doesn't work so well for SG-1000 games with holes in the memory map. And you may come across a non-standard mapper, or RAM mapped into ROM space...
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:30 pm
Last edited by lykanthrocide on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
bsittler wrote
That's great news! If you haven't yet, I recommend updating to the latest Retrode2 firmware from the SMS-specific forum threads (I'm running .24a) and — if that alone isn't sufficient — to make a backup of RETRODE.CFG and edit that and then copy it back to the Retrode2, detach, and reattach. Specifically, at least for SMS games I often needed to use forceSystem (I used sms of course) and forceSize (typically 4 — I believe it's counting megabits so that should be 512 kbytes)


Okay, I'm very confused.

EDIT: For some reason, none of the folders were showing up when I first installed FLIP. I found the USB folder.

New problem: The device was installed as AT90USB64 instead of AT90USB646. When I get to step 9, FLIP tells me that it can't open the USB device. What do I do?
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:47 pm
The installer drops drivers at C:\Program Files (x86)\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb for me. Alternatively 7-Zip can extract them for you.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:57 pm
EDIT: Aaaaaand nevermind. In frustration, I tried just adjusting the settings in the cfg file, and I got a clean dump of Defenders of Oasis! If I have any further problems, I'll report back here. Thanks for the help and encouragement, everyone!
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