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Hi,

I'd like to ask in your opinion why Shadow Dancer seems to be a different game to emulate or run in different enviroment than the original SMS.
In past I remember many emulators (maybe based on the same core I don't remember) had problems running this game, often didn't even run with grey background at boot.
I am trying to run it (original PAL cartridge) on a PAL Mega Drive II with the first Mega Drive Converter without its case. Most games I have run but just as I was expecting, Shadow Dancer seems to not run. I never heard of this problem so maybe it's related to the converter being designed for the first MD or the MD-II (v1.8) having different asic.
But anyway, is something coded in different way on this game?
Thank

Shadow Dancer needs the stack pointer to be initialized to certain value (I think 0xdff0, don't quote me on this) before the game loads, otherwise it will hang up. It's probably expecting the sms bios to take care of this, but in the case of some converters, there is no bios.

best regards,
- dink

dink wrote

Shadow Dancer needs the stack pointer to be initialized to certain value (I think 0xdff0, don't quote me on this) before the game loads, otherwise it will hang up. It's probably expecting the sms bios to take care of this, but in the case of some converters, there is no bios.

best regards,
- dink

Thanks, I always thought there was something different on this game. I'm using the official converter with that IC that should improve compatibility but still I can't get it to run.

If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them.

douglie007 wrote

If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them.

I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?)

Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games. Until now I can hear differences in sound. Zillion on the MD2 imho shows why some say the MD2 had not good sound output.

386DX wrote

douglie007 wrote

If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them.

I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?)

Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games.

If Dink is correct, then the Shadow Dancer may use something from the BIOS. if thats the case the game worldnt work without one

douglie007 wrote

386DX wrote

douglie007 wrote

If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them.

I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?)

Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games.

If Dink is correct, then the Shadow Dancer may use something from the BIOS. if thats the case the game worldnt work without one

Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

386DX wrote

Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

I wonder if the header was changed on the ROM. I assume you are using the real cart. I will test the ROM on my Genesis and my SMS later.

douglie007 wrote

386DX wrote

Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

I wonder if the header was changed on the ROM. I assume you are using the real cart. I will test the ROM on my Genesis and my SMS later.

Sure, I am using the original PAL cartridge on a original PAL MD2 with the original Power Base Converter (europe) for MD1 running without its case.
Thanks for the test, it's more a technical interest on this "alternative but official" solutions. For example it works with the Master Gear converter on the GG.

I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer.

First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time.

I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2.

k4l wrote

I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer.

First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time.

I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2.

But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot?
Thank

It's simple, we just set the stack pointer(SP) to 0xdff0 before booting the game - the same thing the bios would do anyways.

386DX wrote

Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

Reseating the game..powering off the console and powering it back on.

386DX wrote

k4l wrote

I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer.

First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time.

I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2.

But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot?
Thank

k4l wrote

Reseating the game..powering off the console and powering it back on.

386DX wrote

k4l wrote

I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer.

First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time.

I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2.

But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot?
Thank

It's right. After I don't know many times I reset the MD2 with the adapter, the game ran! Incredible. It's really the only game I tried that does this.

UPDATE:

I am trying the second version of the official Master System Converter (the one for the Mega Drive II) and beside the perfect case combination and stable physical connection, Shadow Dancer run every time I tried at boot and so other games!
I've seen on this forum that beside some passive components it should be identical to the pcb layout of the first Power Base Converter but I don't know if the on board IC is working differently or the lack of the old cards connector solved this.

Author	Message
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Shadow Dancer info (UPDATE) Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:46 am Last edited by 386DX on Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Hi, I'd like to ask in your opinion why Shadow Dancer seems to be a different game to emulate or run in different enviroment than the original SMS. In past I remember many emulators (maybe based on the same core I don't remember) had problems running this game, often didn't even run with grey background at boot. I am trying to run it (original PAL cartridge) on a PAL Mega Drive II with the first Mega Drive Converter without its case. Most games I have run but just as I was expecting, Shadow Dancer seems to not run. I never heard of this problem so maybe it's related to the converter being designed for the first MD or the MD-II (v1.8) having different asic. But anyway, is something coded in different way on this game? Thank

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:33 pm
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Shadow Dancer needs the stack pointer to be initialized to certain value (I think 0xdff0, don't quote me on this) before the game loads, otherwise it will hang up. It's probably expecting the sms bios to take care of this, but in the case of some converters, there is no bios. best regards, - dink

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:03 pm
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	dink wrote Shadow Dancer needs the stack pointer to be initialized to certain value (I think 0xdff0, don't quote me on this) before the game loads, otherwise it will hang up. It's probably expecting the sms bios to take care of this, but in the case of some converters, there is no bios. best regards, - dink Thanks, I always thought there was something different on this game. I'm using the official converter with that IC that should improve compatibility but still I can't get it to run.

douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:56 am
douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them.

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:03 am
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	douglie007 wrote If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them. I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?) Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games. Until now I can hear differences in sound. Zillion on the MD2 imho shows why some say the MD2 had not good sound output.

douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:08 am
douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	386DX wrote douglie007 wrote If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them. I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?) Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games. If Dink is correct, then the Shadow Dancer may use something from the BIOS. if thats the case the game worldnt work without one

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:24 am
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	douglie007 wrote 386DX wrote douglie007 wrote If I understand how the convertors work, they don't have a BIOS on them, they just change the pin connectors to work on the MegaDrive. You may need to get a real Master System to play them. I always thought the SMS bios didn't do anything but just a cartridge checking. (?) Anyway I have the SMS1 and soon the second one, but I liked testing these converters technically and see if actual gameplay differ or not in games. If Dink is correct, then the Shadow Dancer may use something from the BIOS. if thats the case the game worldnt work without one Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:29 am
douglie007 Joined: 29 Dec 2013 Posts: 37	386DX wrote Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios. I wonder if the header was changed on the ROM. I assume you are using the real cart. I will test the ROM on my Genesis and my SMS later.

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:13 am
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	douglie007 wrote 386DX wrote Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios. I wonder if the header was changed on the ROM. I assume you are using the real cart. I will test the ROM on my Genesis and my SMS later. Sure, I am using the original PAL cartridge on a original PAL MD2 with the original Power Base Converter (europe) for MD1 running without its case. Thanks for the test, it's more a technical interest on this "alternative but official" solutions. For example it works with the Master Gear converter on the GG.

k4l Joined: 14 Mar 2016 Posts: 58 Location: Australia	Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:53 am
k4l Joined: 14 Mar 2016 Posts: 58 Location: Australia	I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer. First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time. I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2.

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:35 am
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	k4l wrote I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer. First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time. I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2. But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot? Thank

dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:09 pm
dink Joined: 09 Dec 2013 Posts: 228 Location: detroit	It's simple, we just set the stack pointer(SP) to 0xdff0 before booting the game - the same thing the bios would do anyways. 386DX wrote Yeah, would be technically interesting to know how emulators solved that problem when most don't use the original bios.

k4l Joined: 14 Mar 2016 Posts: 58 Location: Australia	Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:24 pm
k4l Joined: 14 Mar 2016 Posts: 58 Location: Australia	Reseating the game..powering off the console and powering it back on. 386DX wrote k4l wrote I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer. First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time. I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2. But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot? Thank

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:04 pm
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	k4l wrote Reseating the game..powering off the console and powering it back on. 386DX wrote k4l wrote I ended up picked up a couple power base minis from db electronics. Used it on my pal md2 with my pal release of shadow dancer. First I thought it was faulty. Turns out it just took a really really long time for the cart to work. Plug any other game in and it would work almost first time. I thought it was pretty weird that shadow dancer wouldn't want to read. Just thought it was my cart. But it plays instantly both of my sms1 consoles as well as sms2. But 'long time' mean I need to "reboot" the MD many times until it works or just wait at the first boot? Thank It's right. After I don't know many times I reset the MD2 with the adapter, the game ran! Incredible. It's really the only game I tried that does this.

386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:41 pm
386DX Joined: 13 Jun 2017 Posts: 96	UPDATE: I am trying the second version of the official Master System Converter (the one for the Mega Drive II) and beside the perfect case combination and stable physical connection, Shadow Dancer run every time I tried at boot and so other games! I've seen on this forum that beside some passive components it should be identical to the pcb layout of the first Power Base Converter but I don't know if the on board IC is working differently or the lack of the old cards connector solved this.

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View topic - Shadow Dancer info (UPDATE)