Forums

As I [somewhat] mentioned on this post --> http://www.smspower.org/forums/16659-BestGamesOnTheMasterSystem#98120, the playability of the PAL and the NTSC versions of this game are as different as night and day:

-NTSC (USA) version allows the car to continuously skid along the road and grass, without spinning in any moment.
-PAL version (Europe) allows little skidding before the car goes mad and starts spinning, which is very frustrating.

Any idea of why these versions are so different, with respect to car control? What's the point of making EU version so damn difficult (or: what's the point of making USA version not so difficult)? Are there any other internal code differences?

I think the differences are not well known. I guess they made it easier because the harder version is almost unplayable...

There is a prototype dump, how does that compare?

There's 1.0 and 1.1 in goodsms, both are UE, so either Europe got 1.0 and USA got 1.1 or PAL timings messed with the game physics.

I tried both versions in PAL and NTSC in an emulator and didn't see any major gameplay changes. I only played each version a few corners tho.

Didn't know there were prototypes. According to Maxim's Header reader, these are the checksums for each versions I am referring to:

European/PAL/"Harder"

USA/NTSC/"Playable"

Tested with Kega Fusion. I can assure that "Harder" version is pretty unplayable when you face any corner.

From the checksums, it seems like the harder version is rev 1.1 and the playable version is rev 1.0.

I tried 1.1 again and yep, there's a small zone between the grass and the red/white marks where the car does the spinning "crash", I think maybe only if you don't hold left or right...

PAL or NTSC timings don't matter actually.

It's odd, why would they make a revised version that's less playable?

The revision made it easier/playable.

The easy/hard distinction is new to me. I grew up with the PAL/hard version, and have put a reasonable amount of hours into it. It was indeed hard, but not too hard/unplayable, as far as I remember. The trick is to have softer tires and a heavy wing (from memory, might be inaccurate), and develop a sense of how much skidding your car can take before it spins. During curves, one must (for a brief moment) release the dpad just before the skidding makes the car spin - then continue turning/skidding... releasing..repeat. Oh, good memories coming back :)

hang-on wrote

The easy/hard distinction is new to me. I grew up with the PAL/hard version, and have put a reasonable amount of hours into it. It was indeed hard, but not too hard/unplayable, as far as I remember. The trick is to have softer tires and a heavy wing (from memory, might be inaccurate), and develop a sense of how much skidding your car can take before it spins. During curves, one must (for a brief moment) release the dpad just before the skidding makes the car spin - then continue turning/skidding... releasing..repeat. Oh, good memories coming back :)

I also love this game. I played the European version via actual cart on my SMS2, but only managed to end the game with USA version in an emulator.

Despite the changes, the Spanish circuit is hard as hell as usual in both versions XD!

Try to refer to meka.nam ( https://github.com/ocornut/meka/blob/master/meka/meka.nam ) for labelling because GoodSMS has lots of fault.

Here are the SMS from cartridge I've dumped:

SMS 55bf81a0 59B3C79CC4A7DE48 Super Monaco GP/COUNTRY=EU,BR/PRODUCT_NO=7043,025310
SMS 3ef12baa 848ACF83D5A4DE49 Super Monaco GP/COUNTRY=US/PRODUCT_NO=7043
SMS a1d6d963 CA2E38E7805970A0 Super Monaco GP [Proto 0]/FLAGS=PROTO/COMMENT=Prototype version of the game.
SMS dd7adbcc C9712D78F61127F3 Super Monaco GP [Proto 1]/FLAGS=PROTO/COMMENT=Prototype version of the game.

Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes.

Bock wrote

Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes.

I've tested them. Both "Proto 0" and "Proto 1" have the same draconian controls of the PAL/Europe version.

In Proto 0, on the race presentation screen, there is a number 0 at the right part of the circuit shilouette box, but I ignore what represents.

The EU version has some code (at $1db1 - $1dcb) which initiates a spin if certain conditions (presumably representing excessive steering) hold for 30 consecutive frames. The US version removes this code, replacing it with a single instruction that simply resets the frame counter to 29.

Ron_Stard wrote

Are there any other internal code differences?

The US version also has an extra single-byte instruction at $70b2 which fixes a bug in the EU version. In the earlier ROM, the Grand Prix Mode's "World Champion" ending screen is only shown if player 1 is top of the points ranking after all 16 races. The later ROM corrects the code to also show this ending if it is a 2-player game and player 2 is top.

However, the exact same bug remains unfixed for the "Once More Chance" ending screen which is used for points ranking positions 2 through 6 - only player 1's position is ever considered.

It looks like, at some point before [Proto 0], both screens correctly considered both players, but did not check whether it was a 1- or 2-player game. This could cause the ending screens to show in 1-player mode for the computer-controlled second player. Code was inserted to prevent player 2 being considered in a 1-player game, but this inadvertently prevented player 2 being considered at all.

This bug fix is the only other difference between the EU and US versions.

Bock wrote

Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes.

As expected, the prototypes both match the earlier EU version - they both have the spin initiation code and the player 2 ending bug.

The Game Gear versions both include the later frame counter reset code, not the spin initiation code. The player 2 ending bug is presumably not applicable because the GG's 2-player mode is very different from the SMS's - it uses the Gear-to-Gear cable.

Thank you for the research, RetroSpark! I still have to test which version is embedded in the Master Games 1 cartridge, but chances are it's the PAL one.

Author	Message
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Super Monaco GP Versions: NTSC Vs. PAL Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:32 pm Last edited by Ron_Stard on Thu May 25, 2017 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	As I [somewhat] mentioned on this post --> http://www.smspower.org/forums/16659-BestGamesOnTheMasterSystem#98120, the playability of the PAL and the NTSC versions of this game are as different as night and day: -NTSC (USA) version allows the car to continuously skid along the road and grass, without spinning in any moment. -PAL version (Europe) allows little skidding before the car goes mad and starts spinning, which is very frustrating. Any idea of why these versions are so different, with respect to car control? What's the point of making EU version so damn difficult (or: what's the point of making USA version not so difficult)? Are there any other internal code differences?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:03 pm
	I think the differences are not well known. I guess they made it easier because the harder version is almost unplayable... There is a prototype dump, how does that compare?

gligli Joined: 14 Sep 2016 Posts: 81 Location: Vienne, France	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:23 pm
	There's 1.0 and 1.1 in goodsms, both are UE, so either Europe got 1.0 and USA got 1.1 or PAL timings messed with the game physics. I tried both versions in PAL and NTSC in an emulator and didn't see any major gameplay changes. I only played each version a few corners tho.

Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:43 pm
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Didn't know there were prototypes. According to Maxim's Header reader, these are the checksums for each versions I am referring to: European/PAL/"Harder" USA/NTSC/"Playable" Tested with Kega Fusion. I can assure that "Harder" version is pretty unplayable when you face any corner.

gligli Joined: 14 Sep 2016 Posts: 81 Location: Vienne, France	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:01 pm
	From the checksums, it seems like the harder version is rev 1.1 and the playable version is rev 1.0. I tried 1.1 again and yep, there's a small zone between the grass and the red/white marks where the car does the spinning "crash", I think maybe only if you don't hold left or right... PAL or NTSC timings don't matter actually. It's odd, why would they make a revised version that's less playable?

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14745 Location: London	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:19 pm
	The revision made it easier/playable.

hang-on Joined: 23 Mar 2013 Posts: 611 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:16 pm
	The easy/hard distinction is new to me. I grew up with the PAL/hard version, and have put a reasonable amount of hours into it. It was indeed hard, but not too hard/unplayable, as far as I remember. The trick is to have softer tires and a heavy wing (from memory, might be inaccurate), and develop a sense of how much skidding your car can take before it spins. During curves, one must (for a brief moment) release the dpad just before the skidding makes the car spin - then continue turning/skidding... releasing..repeat. Oh, good memories coming back :)

Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 10:18 pm
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	hang-on wrote The easy/hard distinction is new to me. I grew up with the PAL/hard version, and have put a reasonable amount of hours into it. It was indeed hard, but not too hard/unplayable, as far as I remember. The trick is to have softer tires and a heavy wing (from memory, might be inaccurate), and develop a sense of how much skidding your car can take before it spins. During curves, one must (for a brief moment) release the dpad just before the skidding makes the car spin - then continue turning/skidding... releasing..repeat. Oh, good memories coming back :) I also love this game. I played the European version via actual cart on my SMS2, but only managed to end the game with USA version in an emulator. Despite the changes, the Spanish circuit is hard as hell as usual in both versions XD!

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8651 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:25 am
	Try to refer to meka.nam ( https://github.com/ocornut/meka/blob/master/meka/meka.nam ) for labelling because GoodSMS has lots of fault. Here are the SMS from cartridge I've dumped: SMS 55bf81a0 59B3C79CC4A7DE48 Super Monaco GP/COUNTRY=EU,BR/PRODUCT_NO=7043,025310 SMS 3ef12baa 848ACF83D5A4DE49 Super Monaco GP/COUNTRY=US/PRODUCT_NO=7043 SMS a1d6d963 CA2E38E7805970A0 Super Monaco GP [Proto 0]/FLAGS=PROTO/COMMENT=Prototype version of the game. SMS dd7adbcc C9712D78F61127F3 Super Monaco GP [Proto 1]/FLAGS=PROTO/COMMENT=Prototype version of the game. Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes.

Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:17 pm
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Bock wrote Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes. I've tested them. Both "Proto 0" and "Proto 1" have the same draconian controls of the PAL/Europe version. In Proto 0, on the race presentation screen, there is a number 0 at the right part of the circuit shilouette box, but I ignore what represents.

RetroSpark Joined: 08 Dec 2005 Posts: 488 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:29 am
	The EU version has some code (at $1db1 - $1dcb) which initiates a spin if certain conditions (presumably representing excessive steering) hold for 30 consecutive frames. The US version removes this code, replacing it with a single instruction that simply resets the frame counter to 29. Ron_Stard wrote Are there any other internal code differences? The US version also has an extra single-byte instruction at $70b2 which fixes a bug in the EU version. In the earlier ROM, the Grand Prix Mode's "World Champion" ending screen is only shown if player 1 is top of the points ranking after all 16 races. The later ROM corrects the code to also show this ending if it is a 2-player game and player 2 is top. However, the exact same bug remains unfixed for the "Once More Chance" ending screen which is used for points ranking positions 2 through 6 - only player 1's position is ever considered. It looks like, at some point before [Proto 0], both screens correctly considered both players, but did not check whether it was a 1- or 2-player game. This could cause the ending screens to show in 1-player mode for the computer-controlled second player. Code was inserted to prevent player 2 being considered in a 1-player game, but this inadvertently prevented player 2 being considered at all. This bug fix is the only other difference between the EU and US versions. Bock wrote Maybe also worth investigating the prototypes. As expected, the prototypes both match the earlier EU version - they both have the spin initiation code and the player 2 ending bug. The Game Gear versions both include the later frame counter reset code, not the spin initiation code. The player 2 ending bug is presumably not applicable because the GG's 2-player mode is very different from the SMS's - it uses the Gear-to-Gear cable.

Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:39 am
Ron_Stard Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 197 Location: Spain	Thank you for the research, RetroSpark! I still have to test which version is embedded in the Master Games 1 cartridge, but chances are it's the PAL one.

Forums

View topic - Super Monaco GP Versions: NTSC Vs. PAL