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The point is to simply test whether an adapter works in practice. Nothing to do with practical or economic value. If only late releases that contain a BIOS header work, that's OK.

$100/150 in labor for someone to attach kynar wire between a 40-pin and 44-pin connector wouldn't be unreasonable given my goal here.

lumclaw wrote

The point is to simply test whether an adapter works in practice.

Haven't we told you time and time again that it will if you also perform a BIOS replacement?

lumclaw wrote

$100/150 in labor for someone to attach kynar wire between a 40-pin and 44-pin connector wouldn't be unreasonable given my goal here.

If someone charged me $100 to do that, I'd think that person was royally ripping me off.

Let's not get fractious about it; some may want to do it for real rather than be satisfied with the theory, and the cost isn't necessarily unreasonable if someone is willing to pay it.

Maxim wrote

Let's not get fractious about it; some may want to do it for real rather than be satisfied with the theory, and the cost isn't necessarily unreasonable if someone is willing to pay it.

Exactly. Like any good inventor the research and development phase, will never be as satisfying as prototype construction. :)

There's plenty of tech job I would be dying to pay for three digit amount for being unable to do myself. Most of my dumping and research is bottlenecked by me lacking the proper adapters and hardware. If anybody here wants to make me such adapter (no BIOS replacement required) I'd happily pay $100+

Actually if our research is correct, coupled with a BIOS replacement and FM module this should have superior compatibility to the JP console.

I haven't heard of a successful mod to set JP systems into English mode.

Connectors available here for cheap:

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p...

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p...

Using the schemas from Maxim about Mark III and US cart slots and checking all the unconnected pins for the MasterED US cart we should at least be able to figure out what pins may be controversial/missing/complex, the few Mark III only I noticed were all related to SC3000/SG1000 compat (a bunch of RAM related signals for the BASIC cartridge mainly) and as such not needed at all.

Regarding the US SMS being more compat than JAP once FM board is installed it may be true. I am not sure only Outrun has that bizarre behavior, and maybe viletim is able to hone in on the root cause (not sure there's a fix for it or if it even make sense). The point being that the JAP SMS at this moment does something subtly different than the FM board. My money is on a "bad"/lucky design on the JAP SMS in which a command that looks like FM related does not get propagated (maybe slow latches) hence no white noise for Outrun on JAP SMS, but FM board is more strict and hits the snag ..... either that or there's one command that looks like FM related but it is not and FM board is tricked .... again viletim is on it and I am plenty sure he will figure it out.
Also the JAP SMS because it does not wire TH (or was that TR .... can't remember, I think it's pin7 on the joypad port) can play all games with the Genesis pad while the US SMS cannot (Wonderboy is one of them, but there are a few others) .... it's an easy fix as well, just something to keep in mind. (I personally bought an extension cord, a gender changer
http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-Gender-Changer-Coupler/dp/B006WB49A8/ref=sr_1_4?s... and snipped out pin 7 on the male end of the adapter. This way I didn't have to change neither the Genesis pad nor the extension cable.
The extension cable was required because the Gender Adapter did not fit in the DB9 port console side but I was lucky it did fit at the end of the extension cord, other console/adapter combo may work)

Japanese consoles lack the functionality that region tests check for. You may be able to transplant an I/O chip from an export console into a Japanese one, or have something like a modern modchip try to overpower the existing chip's behaviour, both would be troublesome. Patching the ROM on a flashcart would be less troublesome.

phoenixdownita wrote

Connectors available here for cheap:

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p...

http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p...

Using the schemas from Maxim about Mark III and US cart slots and checking all the unconnected pins for the MasterED US cart we should at least be able to figure out what pins may be controversial/missing/complex, the few Mark III only I noticed were all related to SC3000/SG1000 compat (a bunch of RAM related signals for the BASIC cartridge mainly) and as such not needed at all.

Yeah the rear port is easier for just tests.

Leaving it free would only be useful if an SG-1000 keyboard adapter is also feasible. That's the one thing Mark III did, unlike JP SMS.

lumclaw wrote

Leaving it free would only be useful if an SG-1000 keyboard adapter is also feasible. That's the one thing Mark III did, unlike JP SMS.

Well then, go on eBay or something and pick up a Mark III if you're so obsessed with the SK-1100. I don't see why you'd want that though aside from collecting purposes.

I suppose we could salvage a dead Mark III to use for adapter components.

lumclaw wrote

I suppose we could salvage a dead Mark III to use for adapter components.

Or fix it and use that to play Japanese games *and* use an SK-1100...

Don't patronize me, OK? This is a research project. I did not state my intention was actual use of Japanese games.

It's obvious from context if I wanted to do that, I'd already have.

lumclaw wrote

Don't patronize me, OK? This is a research project. I did not state my intention was actual use of Japanese games.

It's obvious from context if I wanted to do that, I'd already have.

If you are interested in running the BASIC cartridges (SC3000/SG1000) then the Adaptor route will not work, those extra RAM signals present in the JAP SMS/Mark III card connector are a necessity.

The only use for a Mark III to US SMS adaptor as we were talking thus far it is to play original JAP cartridge games, nothing else.

There's one of the BASIC cartridges for SC3000 that I managed to run over MasterED, the smaller one with only around 2.5KB for user programs because I believe it works with the meager RAM available on board on the console itself but all others do not work as the cartridge contained extra RAM at which point the extra RAM timing related signals present in the JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000/SC3000 cartridge connector are required, but the adapter we speculated about so far would not have them.

I guess personally I do not understand what are you researching on. Trying to make an upgraded Mark III with support for SG1000/SC3000 peripheral/cartridges out of an US SMS will not just require a pass thru adapter over the cart/exp connector. I am not even sure if the signals are readily available on US PCB board, although they might well be somewhere, at which point still there needs to be much more rewiring of traces.

So you see, when you say you are not interested in games it's a little puzzling as the SMS (US or JAP) was obviously all about the games, SEGA itself ditched support for the keyboard. Attempting to rebuild/re-extract all the signals required to connect SG1000/SC3000 peripherals/cartridges is an endeavor I am personally not interested in so I can't really be of assistance there but I do wish you good luck.

The mere game related JAP to US cartridge adapter for ROM dumping or whatever Bock was hinting at, it is personally more interesting as it looks like much better scoped and given what I gathered so far it seems likely within reach.

Right, BASIC doesn't really interest me.

The research itself is my motivation.

If a constructed adapter successfully boots any code from a 40-pin cartridge using any 44-pin hardware,
this project has met its goal.

Even if for some reason it ends up working on a non-US SMS like PAL or Brazil,
yet not a US SMS (ludicrous as that idea is)

Otherwise I must admit I am wrong and move on.

I have to say I'm also a bit surprised at some of phoenix comments on this, I think there is value in just doing the thing aside from the extra of documenting and understand its quirk.

Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time.

Bock wrote

Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time.

I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem?

Bock wrote

I have to say I'm also a bit surprised at some of phoenix comments on this, I think there is value in just doing the thing aside from the extra of documenting and understand its quirk.

Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time.

Hi Bock, we are saying the same thing. I do see value in attempting an adapter (BIOS less for now) to play JAP games on US SMS.
What I have no personal interest in, is instead attempting to bring to US SMS full support for everything else that may work on JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000 due to the necessity of a more intrusive modification to the console.
I stress "personal" to underly that it is strictly my opinion, it doesn't mean that someone with resources to put into it should not attempt.

I am probably misunderstanding what lumclaw is saying I hope I didn't offend anyone here.

ApolloBoy wrote

I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem?

Take a look at the MasterED pictures http://shop.retrogate.com/Master-Everdrive-SMS.htm and you'll see quite a few pins are unused (unfortunately the website only has one side picture).

I may have some time later in the day to list all the unused pins of the MasterED wrt the US cart connector, if anyone else can do it sooner it may actually speed up your work.

Unfortunately I am afraid that depending on how your donor cart was done it may not have all the required connections as it may not have had a need for all of them to start with.

BTW what are the "late releases" JAP games that would pass the BIOS check from an US SMS? lumclaw hinted at the existence of a few but I do not know of a ready available list.

Games released after the US console.
Sega may have saved on production costs, by using similar ROM data in Japan too.

Try looking at the file contents for some of these. Among other potential candidates.

After Burner
Aleste
Alex Kidd The Lost Stars
Tri-Formation
Bomber Raid
Double Dragon
R-Type
Ys

I checked the MasterED and the following pin are left unconnected
(I am using this diagram here http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot)

the numbering is on the connector itself, eve on the front and odd on the back.

3 Mreq
5 M8-B
11 M0-7
37 M1
39 Refresh
43 JyDs
45 BusAck
49 MC-F

then

34 Cont
38 IOReq
40 Halt
42 Int
44 BusReq
48 Jread
50 NMI

Everything else is connected so it is needed (at least by MasterED).

Also form that diagrams keep in mind that CE (13 on US cart) is connected to B10 (the Mark III port picture is wrong on that one).

B1 and B2 are tied together in JAP cart connector [directly on SMS PCB] (and also cart, it may have been an SG1000 thing back in the days).

I think we are left with only 3 or 4 pins that we are not sure among the 2 systems.

phoenixdownita wrote

Hi Bock, we are saying the same thing. I do see value in attempting an adapter (BIOS less for now) to play JAP games on US SMS.
What I have no personal interest in, is instead attempting to bring to US SMS full support for everything else that may work on JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000 due to the necessity of a more intrusive modification to the console.
I stress "personal" to underly that it is strictly my opinion, it doesn't mean that someone with resources to put into it should not attempt.

I am probably misunderstanding what lumclaw is saying I hope I didn't offend anyone here.

True... I'm just talking about what we believe possible with a pin adapter.

ApolloBoy wrote

I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem?

If that's so, we've been on the same page all along

I've sought this pin adapter for over two years now. And you yourself claimed back then to want one. :)

phoenixdownita wrote

I checked the MasterED and the following pin are left unconnected
(I am using this diagram here http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot)

the numbering is on the connector itself, even numbers on the front and odd on the back.

3 Mreq
5 M8-B
11 M0-7
37 M1
39 Refresh
43 JyDs
45 BusAck
49 MC-F

then

34 Cont
38 IOReq
40 Halt
42 Int
44 BusReq
48 Jread
50 NMI

Everything else is connected so it is needed (at least by MasterED).

Also form that diagrams keep in mind that CE (13 on US cart) is connected to B10 (the Mark III port picture is wrong on that one).

B1 and B2 are tied together in JAP cart connector [directly on SMS PCB] (and also cart, it may have been an SG1000 thing back in the days).

I think we are left with only 3 or 4 pins that we are not sure among the 2 systems.

I analized (without opening) 2 JAP cart games (Fanstasy Zone 1 and 2). Remember that all A lines and D lines are positive logic, while pretty much everything else is in negative logic (so I will not put the "not" in front of each).
These are the signals that are forwarded from the slot to inside the cart (so I guess they are used somehow).

Fantasy Zone 2 (2Mbit = 256KB cart) connections:

All A pins +
B1 is tied to B2 = + 5V
B3 = CSRAM(?)
B6 = Wr
B9 = (Refresh) -> it is really MReq (Exp pin 3)
B10 = (Mreq) -> it is really CE (Exp pin 13)
B15 = RAS1
B18 = A14
B19 = (A15) not sure
B21 is tied to B22 = GND

Fantasy Zone 1 (1Mbit = 128KB cart) connections:

All A pins +
B1 is tied to B2 = + 5V
B5 = Rd
B6 = Wr
B10 = (Mreq) -> it is really CE (Exp pin 13)
B18 = A14
B19 = (A15) not sure
B21 is tied to B22 = GND

So for now the mistery lies in:
B3 = CSRAM and B15 = RAS1 in Fantasy Zone 2.

I am not sure if they can just be tied high or low.

I used a multimeter to check for continuity with the Exp slot (via Bock Adapter) on JAP SMS, B3 seems connected to a common chip (as although not 0 ohm it does have a path with almost all Exp pins with at most a few Kohms) instead B15 does not seem connected on anything on the Exp slot.

Things I found that don't match exactly the pinouts at http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot or don't have a connection to the same named Exp pin:

B7 is connected to Exp slot pin 46 (Reset) and not IORd
B8 not connected to Exp splot
B9 is connected to Exp slot pin 3 (Mreq) and not Refresh.
From B12 to B17 and also B20 are not connected to Exp slot.
B19 (allegedly A15) is not connected to Exp slot pin 36 (A15 in Exp slot) but it seems to have a very low ohm path to Exp slot pin 11 (M0-7).

In this older page http://www.smspower.org/maxim/Documents/Pinouts
way down it seems to indicate some converters did join A15 on one side to M0-7 on the other so It may well be that way for B19 (as JAP SMS does not seem to have a M0-7 anyway),also being Z80 a CPU that addresses 64K (16bit) in order to address the upper 32K it needs A15 to be high or M0-7 to be low, then because of the negative logic !(M0-7) is high so it logically has the same meaning (I guess it comes from a different chip, the same one that generates !(M8-B) and !(MC-F) which really are A15 AND A14 with values at 10 or 11) .... I am being carried away sorry.... well but then again by having !(M0-7) and !(M8-B) which are likely B4 and B19 it is possible to synthesize the missing !(MC-F) as !(MC-F) = !!(M0-7) & !!(M8-B) = !(M0-7) | !(M8-B) that is an OR between the 2 available signals B4 and B19 (just in case someone wants to make the adapter more similar to a real western one, an OR could be simulated by using 2 diodes [attention that this is negative logic], I doubt that the 0.6/0.8 V drop of the NP junction would make any difference for TTL logic as old as the SMS).

There you have it.Hope that helps.

I still don't know if B3 and B15 are actually needed for the adapter (for sure MasterED does not use them and the ROMs work fine).

Hey lumclaw,

so did you manage to get the converter going?
is your research done?

Just curious, I already declared I'm done with SMS hw thinkering (it was short, bittersweet and like all good things it had to end).
With the info collected and ApolloBoy possibly tinkering I was thinking that maybe we have a chance to put this one to rest.

Did you manage to build one yourself or get someone else to build one up that works or are we still waiting on someone to even try?

I've got all the parts ready to go, I just need to find time to put this thing together and try it out.

phoenixdownita wrote

Hey lumclaw,

so did you manage to get the converter going?
is your research done?

Just curious, I already declared I'm done with SMS hw thinkering (it was short, bittersweet and like all good things it had to end).
With the info collected and ApolloBoy possibly tinkering I was thinking that maybe we have a chance to put this one to rest.

Did you manage to build one yourself or get someone else to build one up that works or are we still waiting on someone to even try?

I sent parts to someone a while ago. Not much has happened with that.

I don't know about semi-professionally hiring the work. I'm not at all technically inclined in this area, wouldn't be able to supply an expert with necessary design blueprints to work with.

Just wanted to bump this as I finally got my Mark III to SMS adapter finished. I'm pleased to say it works great, and with my SMS II I was able to figure out which of the Japanese games I have work fine on an export system. Here's the list so far...

Akai Koudan Zillion
Aleste
Alien Syndrome
Chouon Senshi Borgman
Fantasy Zone II
Galactic Protector
Maze Walker
Opa Opa
Out Run
R-Type
Thunder Blade
Tri Formation

Since it's not april fools, I guess my persistence on the matter has paid off. From your description the kind of major breakthrough I'd wished for.

And here's the proof:

For extra ridiculousness:

And yes, it works:

Nice work.
I guess you have SMS Loader installed as the replacement BIOS.

Do you have titles that don't work?

phoenixdownita wrote

I guess you have SMS Loader installed as the replacement BIOS.

Nope, that's the original BIOS in it with Sonic built-in.

phoenixdownita wrote

Do you have titles that don't work?

Most of the earlier titles I have don't work because they don't have the necessary header file for the BIOS, and that also includes all the SG-1000 games I have. Out of the later titles I have, After Burner and Super Wonder Boy Monster World don't work. Both of those have different ROMs than the export versions (After Burner actually has its ROM file split across two ROM chips as opposed to one) and so don't have the header file. They all work fine on the Power Base Converter though.

I tried Super Wonder Boy Monster World on my PBC with my region modded Japanese Mega Drive, and I was able to get English text by setting the MD to English mode. I encountered some bizarre little glitches with the text boxes every now and then though.

BTW, I actually have you to thank for helping me get this to work. When I first tried it, it didn't even work. Then I realized that the cart enable line was disconnected and found this thread while trying to look for info on it. As you said, pin B10 on the Mark III side is actually CE (not CONT as shown in the pinout section of this site), so once I got that fixed it all came together.

Would you publish the connections you had to do?
Did you use any components in the converter beside connections?

I guess that with the SMS Loader the issues about the missing headers are solved as it explicitly disables the check.

Anyway nice accomplishment, I am really interested in knowing what connections you ended up doing and which Mark III signals you left basically unconnected as there are no corresponding ones on the western connector.

phoenixdownita wrote

Would you publish the connections you had to do?

I used an SMS cartridge board that didn't have all the pins present, but it had just enough of them for this to work. All 16 address lines and all 8 data lines are connected, as are write (didn't have the read pin on the cart board I used though), CE, and of course 5V and ground.

I didn't use any extra components, just loads of wire and hot glue (!).

If it is not too much disturb you should really make a diagram of Mark III pin name to SMS pin name based on the naming at http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot

Really just something like:

Here you go:

Mark III |SMS
--------------------------------------
A1    |25
A2    |26
A3    |27
A4    |28
A5    |29
A6    |30
A7    |31
A8    |32
A9    |8
A10    |9
A11    |12
A12    |10
A13    |33
A14    |7
A15    |24
A16    |23
A17    |22
A18    |18
A19    |17
A20    |16
A21    |15
A22    |14
B1    |1 or 35
B2    |1 or 35
B3    |NC
B4    |5
B5    |4
B6    |2
B7    |NC
B8    |NC
B9    |3
B10    |13
B11    |NC
B12    |NC
B13    |NC
B14    |NC
B15    |NC
B16    |NC
B17    |NC
B18    |6
B19    |36
B20    |37
B21    |19, 20 or 21
B22    |19, 20 or 21

Oh man. After Burner was the test subject game I'd sent in...

lumclaw wrote

Oh man. After Burner was the test subject game I'd sent in...

It's not too bad if you have a BIOS-modded SMS though.

I really wish I still had my Japanese copy of Phantasy Star though, I'm unsure about whether or not games with a save function will work.

EDIT: Turns out After Burner doesn't work on the PBC either. I think it's because I'm missing a signal or two on the converter that the game requires. Oh well, I have the American version anyway so it's no real loss.

Hm, Space Harrier isn't working either. I probably should've used a different donor cart that had all 50 pins, but I'm still surprised at how well this thing has worked.

Any chance you could try:

B19 Mark III goes to 11 and not 36

And for completeness:
B7 to 46

BTW awesome work, so now we know it can be done and with a BIOS replacement very few games should have any issue, obviously as none of the RAM signals are wired then BASIC carts would not work.

Any chance you could get ahold of the SMS loader [maybe Bock can send you one] to see how better is the whole ordeal (meaning how many more games are actually working)?

phoenixdownita wrote

Any chance you could try:

B19 Mark III goes to 11 and not 36

And for completeness:
B7 to 46

The PCB I used doesn't have pins 11 or 46 so no can do.

phoenixdownita wrote

Any chance you could get ahold of the SMS loader [maybe Bock can send you one] to see how better is the whole ordeal (meaning how many more games are actually working)?

The Genesis/MD with a PBC doesn't check for a header since it lacks a BIOS, so I was able to try out stuff with that setup as well. All of the games I tried which didn't work on the SMS II except for Space Harrier and After Burner worked fine.

Also, I've found that Aleste and Tri Formation work perfectly fine without a BIOS mod so I added those to my little list.

Given you have the carts for Space Harrier and After Burner can you check (visually) if pins B19 and/or B7 are actually connected [that is they even exist on the cart]?

It is interesting that Fantasy Zone II runs given that the cart seems to be using B3 and B15 [the traces are definitely there, didn't open the actual cart to see where they go though] which are both NC in the converter.

Maybe http://www.smspower.org/Development/SMSPagingChips can shed some light.

The 2 games you cited as non working seems to be using 315-5235. Unsure if it matters though.

Alrighty, I just got a Hang-On/Safari Hunt cart as a new donor PCB, and thankfully this had all 50 pins available. I've managed to get After Burner and Space Harrier working, using the same wiring scheme I used before, but with B19 on the Mark III side connected to pin 11 on the SMS side as per Phoenix's suggestion.

Also, do not connect the pins for EXM1 (B4 on the Mark III side and 5 on the SMS side) as that breaks compatibility with After Burner and Space Harrier; only connect EXM2.

EDIT: Proud to say every cart I tested works great, even the Card Catcher!

Thank you apolloboy and phoenixdownita for the awesome work!
I checked some SG-1000 games, and I noticed that the following games

orguss
safari race
gp world
konami no hyper sports
space invaders

have the following pins on the side B connected (all pins of A side are connected)http://dk.toastednet.org/SMS2SMD/sega2sms.png

b1,b2,b10,b11,b18,b19,b21,b22

Safari hunting has the following pins connected

b1,b2,b4,b5,b6,b10,b11,b18,b19,b21,b22

Anmitsu hime (mark III game) instead has the following pins connected
b1,b2,b6,b10,b18,b19,b21,b22

Do you have any idea on why B11 is connected on the cart (but NC in apolloboy's converter?)

From cross check I also checked http://dk.toastednet.org/SMS2SMD/sega2sms.png

Differences with apolloboy's adapter with respect to the SMS pins
3, 5 , 37 are disconnected (recent post on EXM1 confirms pin 5?)
46 is connected (post on B7 confirms this?)

ApolloBoy wrote

Alrighty, I just got a Hang-On/Safari Hunt cart as a new donor PCB, and thankfully this had all 50 pins available. I've managed to get After Burner and Space Harrier working, using the same wiring scheme I used before, but with B19 on the Mark III side connected to pin 11 on the SMS side as per Phoenix's suggestion.

Also, do not connect the pins for EXM1 (B4 on the Mark III side and 5 on the SMS side) as that breaks compatibility with After Burner and Space Harrier; only connect EXM2.

EDIT: Proud to say every cart I tested works great, even the Card Catcher!

Very nice. More than anything this would allow westerner SMS to play actual SG1000 games (or at least a selection of them, up until now it would have required an SC3000), awesome, it feels nice to have contributed a little to solve this puzzle.

phoenixdownita wrote

More than anything this would allow westerner SMS to play actual SG1000 games (or at least a selection of them, up until now it would have required an SC3000), awesome, it feels nice to have contributed a little to solve this puzzle.

Well unfortunately you won't be able to play any SG-1000 games unless you perform a BIOS mod first. However, a handful of Mark III games seem to be cheaper than their American/European equivalents (i.e. Aleste, Fantasy Zone II, Zaxxon 3-D, Space Harrier 3-D) so this would be a nice solution to playing those games on the cheap. Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working.

EDIT: Took a look at the ROMs of the games I don't have for the Mark III, and these should theoretically work with a stock BIOS on a Western system:

Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars
Alex Kidd BMX Trial
Anmitsu Hime
Ashura
Blade Eagle
Bomber Raid
Captain Silver
The Circuit
Doki Doki Penguin Land
Double Dragon
Double Target
Enduro Racer
Family Games
Gokuaku Doumei Dump Matsumoto
Great Basketball
Great Football
Great Ice Hockey
Great Volleyball
Haja no Fuuin
High School Kimengumi
Hokuto no Ken
Hoshi wo Sagasite
Kenseiden
Kujaku Ou
Lord of Sword
Mahjong Sengoku Jidai
Makai Retsuden
Maou Golvellius
Megumi Rescue
Nekkyuu Koushien
Phantasy Star
The Pro Yakyuu Pennant Race
Rocky
Shinobi
Space Harrier
Space Harrier 3-D
Sports Pad Soccer
Sukeban Deka II
Super Racing
Super Wonder Boy
Tensai Bakabon
World Soccer
Ys
Zaxxon 3-D

ApolloBoy wrote

... Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working....

Regarding the paddles, they are really hard to find, is there any way to mod Atari ones?

phoenixdownita wrote

ApolloBoy wrote

... Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working....

Regarding the paddles, they are really hard to find, is there any way to mod Atari ones?

No, the Atari paddles work entirely differently than the Mark III paddle controllers, mainly because the SMS/Mark III doesn't have analog inputs like the 2600 does.

EDIT: I think the Sports Pad would work for paddle games but I have yet to try it myself.

This is strange, Super Wonder Boy: Monster World doesn't seem to work with the stock BIOS despite having the proper header. Any ideas as to why?

Just picked up a Japanese copy of Phantasy Star and I'm pleased to say loading and saving games work fine.

saturndual32 wrote

Just got a SMS Everdrive today. I tried it with a japanese SMS console and Bocks Gender Adapter. I couldnt get any game to work. I was getting the menu screen, then the game folders screen, i would pick a game to play, but once it was finished loading it, i would get only a black screen. I updated the OS, tried tons of games, but all of them got me a black screen.

I just received my gender adapter today and I'm having the same issue. Was there ever a solution, or do I need to buy one of the Tototek adapters? If so, could someone please confirm the one I need to play US games on a Japanese SMS?

Thanks!

robneal81 wrote

saturndual32 wrote

Just got a SMS Everdrive today. I tried it with a japanese SMS console and Bocks Gender Adapter. I couldnt get any game to work. I was getting the menu screen, then the game folders screen, i would pick a game to play, but once it was finished loading it, i would get only a black screen. I updated the OS, tried tons of games, but all of them got me a black screen.

I just received my gender adapter today and I'm having the same issue. Was there ever a solution, or do I need to buy one of the Tototek adapters? If so, could someone please confirm the one I need to play US games on a Japanese SMS?

Thanks!

You have a few options:
1) You can flash OSv6 (unfortunately it never got fully finalized, you can get it here http://www.smspower.org/forums/download.php?id=5741), not all games work but I'd say a good 90%. The only ones that fail are games that mess up port $3E and mem $C000 and hardcoded the cart slot values.

For 100%:
2) you need to do surgery on the exp slot and cut Exp Pad 13 and wire it to cart slot B10 [you basically end up wiring Bock Adapter pin 13 to cart slot B10, instead of Exp Pad 13] , doing so you make the cart slot and the exp slot one and the same as far as /CE is concerned ... at that point you have full support for everything US from Bock Adapter at the back as if it was a normal US cart connector [of course bilingual games would boot in Japanese], after the surgery the Jap cart slot still works normally so do not connect 2 carts at the same time.

Author	Message
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:00 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	The point is to simply test whether an adapter works in practice. Nothing to do with practical or economic value. If only late releases that contain a BIOS header work, that's OK. $100/150 in labor for someone to attach kynar wire between a 40-pin and 44-pin connector wouldn't be unreasonable given my goal here.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:54 am
	lumclaw wrote The point is to simply test whether an adapter works in practice. Haven't we told you time and time again that it will if you also perform a BIOS replacement? lumclaw wrote $100/150 in labor for someone to attach kynar wire between a 40-pin and 44-pin connector wouldn't be unreasonable given my goal here. If someone charged me $100 to do that, I'd think that person was royally ripping me off.

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14741 Location: London	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:25 am
	Let's not get fractious about it; some may want to do it for real rather than be satisfied with the theory, and the cost isn't necessarily unreasonable if someone is willing to pay it.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:27 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Maxim wrote Let's not get fractious about it; some may want to do it for real rather than be satisfied with the theory, and the cost isn't necessarily unreasonable if someone is willing to pay it. Exactly. Like any good inventor the research and development phase, will never be as satisfying as prototype construction. :)

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8651 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:38 am
	There's plenty of tech job I would be dying to pay for three digit amount for being unable to do myself. Most of my dumping and research is bottlenecked by me lacking the proper adapters and hardware. If anybody here wants to make me such adapter (no BIOS replacement required) I'd happily pay $100+

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:11 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Actually if our research is correct, coupled with a BIOS replacement and FM module this should have superior compatibility to the JP console. I haven't heard of a successful mod to set JP systems into English mode.

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:10 pm
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Connectors available here for cheap: http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p... http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p... Using the schemas from Maxim about Mark III and US cart slots and checking all the unconnected pins for the MasterED US cart we should at least be able to figure out what pins may be controversial/missing/complex, the few Mark III only I noticed were all related to SC3000/SG1000 compat (a bunch of RAM related signals for the BASIC cartridge mainly) and as such not needed at all. Regarding the US SMS being more compat than JAP once FM board is installed it may be true. I am not sure only Outrun has that bizarre behavior, and maybe viletim is able to hone in on the root cause (not sure there's a fix for it or if it even make sense). The point being that the JAP SMS at this moment does something subtly different than the FM board. My money is on a "bad"/lucky design on the JAP SMS in which a command that looks like FM related does not get propagated (maybe slow latches) hence no white noise for Outrun on JAP SMS, but FM board is more strict and hits the snag ..... either that or there's one command that looks like FM related but it is not and FM board is tricked .... again viletim is on it and I am plenty sure he will figure it out. Also the JAP SMS because it does not wire TH (or was that TR .... can't remember, I think it's pin7 on the joypad port) can play all games with the Genesis pad while the US SMS cannot (Wonderboy is one of them, but there are a few others) .... it's an easy fix as well, just something to keep in mind. (I personally bought an extension cord, a gender changer http://www.amazon.com/SF-Cable-Gender-Changer-Coupler/dp/B006WB49A8/ref=sr_1_4?s... and snipped out pin 7 on the male end of the adapter. This way I didn't have to change neither the Genesis pad nor the extension cable. The extension cable was required because the Gender Adapter did not fit in the DB9 port console side but I was lucky it did fit at the end of the extension cord, other console/adapter combo may work)

Maxim Site Admin Joined: 19 Oct 1999 Posts: 14741 Location: London	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:36 pm
	Japanese consoles lack the functionality that region tests check for. You may be able to transplant an I/O chip from an export console into a Japanese one, or have something like a modern modchip try to overpower the existing chip's behaviour, both would be troublesome. Patching the ROM on a flashcart would be less troublesome.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:43 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	phoenixdownita wrote Connectors available here for cheap: http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p... http://www.tototek.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&p... Using the schemas from Maxim about Mark III and US cart slots and checking all the unconnected pins for the MasterED US cart we should at least be able to figure out what pins may be controversial/missing/complex, the few Mark III only I noticed were all related to SC3000/SG1000 compat (a bunch of RAM related signals for the BASIC cartridge mainly) and as such not needed at all. Yeah the rear port is easier for just tests. Leaving it free would only be useful if an SG-1000 keyboard adapter is also feasible. That's the one thing Mark III did, unlike JP SMS.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:18 pm
	lumclaw wrote Leaving it free would only be useful if an SG-1000 keyboard adapter is also feasible. That's the one thing Mark III did, unlike JP SMS. Well then, go on eBay or something and pick up a Mark III if you're so obsessed with the SK-1100. I don't see why you'd want that though aside from collecting purposes.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:05 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	I suppose we could salvage a dead Mark III to use for adapter components.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:07 am
	lumclaw wrote I suppose we could salvage a dead Mark III to use for adapter components. Or fix it and use that to play Japanese games and use an SK-1100...

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:04 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Don't patronize me, OK? This is a research project. I did not state my intention was actual use of Japanese games. It's obvious from context if I wanted to do that, I'd already have.

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:43 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	lumclaw wrote Don't patronize me, OK? This is a research project. I did not state my intention was actual use of Japanese games. It's obvious from context if I wanted to do that, I'd already have. If you are interested in running the BASIC cartridges (SC3000/SG1000) then the Adaptor route will not work, those extra RAM signals present in the JAP SMS/Mark III card connector are a necessity. The only use for a Mark III to US SMS adaptor as we were talking thus far it is to play original JAP cartridge games, nothing else. There's one of the BASIC cartridges for SC3000 that I managed to run over MasterED, the smaller one with only around 2.5KB for user programs because I believe it works with the meager RAM available on board on the console itself but all others do not work as the cartridge contained extra RAM at which point the extra RAM timing related signals present in the JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000/SC3000 cartridge connector are required, but the adapter we speculated about so far would not have them. I guess personally I do not understand what are you researching on. Trying to make an upgraded Mark III with support for SG1000/SC3000 peripheral/cartridges out of an US SMS will not just require a pass thru adapter over the cart/exp connector. I am not even sure if the signals are readily available on US PCB board, although they might well be somewhere, at which point still there needs to be much more rewiring of traces. So you see, when you say you are not interested in games it's a little puzzling as the SMS (US or JAP) was obviously all about the games, SEGA itself ditched support for the keyboard. Attempting to rebuild/re-extract all the signals required to connect SG1000/SC3000 peripherals/cartridges is an endeavor I am personally not interested in so I can't really be of assistance there but I do wish you good luck. The mere game related JAP to US cartridge adapter for ROM dumping or whatever Bock was hinting at, it is personally more interesting as it looks like much better scoped and given what I gathered so far it seems likely within reach.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:58 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Right, BASIC doesn't really interest me. The research itself is my motivation. If a constructed adapter successfully boots any code from a 40-pin cartridge using any 44-pin hardware, this project has met its goal. Even if for some reason it ends up working on a non-US SMS like PAL or Brazil, yet not a US SMS (ludicrous as that idea is) Otherwise I must admit I am wrong and move on.

Bock Site Admin Joined: 08 Jul 2001 Posts: 8651 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:17 pm
	I have to say I'm also a bit surprised at some of phoenix comments on this, I think there is value in just doing the thing aside from the extra of documenting and understand its quirk. Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:17 pm
	Bock wrote Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time. I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem?

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:03 pm
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Bock wrote I have to say I'm also a bit surprised at some of phoenix comments on this, I think there is value in just doing the thing aside from the extra of documenting and understand its quirk. Something that would be nice in the future would be an adapter to play Japanese games on Western consoles. The adapter would contains a boot ROM to pass initial BIOS detection and then pass on the signal to the plugged cartridge. I'm sure it wouldn't be far out of our reach, all it takes really is the right person at the right time. Hi Bock, we are saying the same thing. I do see value in attempting an adapter (BIOS less for now) to play JAP games on US SMS. What I have no personal interest in, is instead attempting to bring to US SMS full support for everything else that may work on JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000 due to the necessity of a more intrusive modification to the console. I stress "personal" to underly that it is strictly my opinion, it doesn't mean that someone with resources to put into it should not attempt. I am probably misunderstanding what lumclaw is saying I hope I didn't offend anyone here. ApolloBoy wrote I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem? Take a look at the MasterED pictures http://shop.retrogate.com/Master-Everdrive-SMS.htm and you'll see quite a few pins are unused (unfortunately the website only has one side picture). I may have some time later in the day to list all the unused pins of the MasterED wrt the US cart connector, if anyone else can do it sooner it may actually speed up your work. Unfortunately I am afraid that depending on how your donor cart was done it may not have all the required connections as it may not have had a need for all of them to start with. BTW what are the "late releases" JAP games that would pass the BIOS check from an US SMS? lumclaw hinted at the existence of a few but I do not know of a ready available list.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:41 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Games released after the US console. Sega may have saved on production costs, by using similar ROM data in Japan too. Try looking at the file contents for some of these. Among other potential candidates. After Burner Aleste Alex Kidd The Lost Stars Tri-Formation Bomber Raid Double Dragon R-Type Ys

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:09 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	I checked the MasterED and the following pin are left unconnected (I am using this diagram here http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot) the numbering is on the connector itself, eve on the front and odd on the back. 3 Mreq 5 M8-B 11 M0-7 37 M1 39 Refresh 43 JyDs 45 BusAck 49 MC-F then 34 Cont 38 IOReq 40 Halt 42 Int 44 BusReq 48 Jread 50 NMI Everything else is connected so it is needed (at least by MasterED). Also form that diagrams keep in mind that CE (13 on US cart) is connected to B10 (the Mark III port picture is wrong on that one). B1 and B2 are tied together in JAP cart connector [directly on SMS PCB] (and also cart, it may have been an SG1000 thing back in the days). I think we are left with only 3 or 4 pins that we are not sure among the 2 systems.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	phoenixdownita wrote Hi Bock, we are saying the same thing. I do see value in attempting an adapter (BIOS less for now) to play JAP games on US SMS. What I have no personal interest in, is instead attempting to bring to US SMS full support for everything else that may work on JAP SMS/Mark III/SG1000 due to the necessity of a more intrusive modification to the console. I stress "personal" to underly that it is strictly my opinion, it doesn't mean that someone with resources to put into it should not attempt. I am probably misunderstanding what lumclaw is saying I hope I didn't offend anyone here. True... I'm just talking about what we believe possible with a pin adapter. ApolloBoy wrote I'm actually in the midst of building one right now although without a boot ROM as I'll be using it with the PBC for the most part. However, the donor cart I'm using doesn't have all 50 pins present, would that pose any problem? If that's so, we've been on the same page all along I've sought this pin adapter for over two years now. And you yourself claimed back then to want one. :)

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:24 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	phoenixdownita wrote I checked the MasterED and the following pin are left unconnected (I am using this diagram here http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot) the numbering is on the connector itself, even numbers on the front and odd on the back. 3 Mreq 5 M8-B 11 M0-7 37 M1 39 Refresh 43 JyDs 45 BusAck 49 MC-F then 34 Cont 38 IOReq 40 Halt 42 Int 44 BusReq 48 Jread 50 NMI Everything else is connected so it is needed (at least by MasterED). Also form that diagrams keep in mind that CE (13 on US cart) is connected to B10 (the Mark III port picture is wrong on that one). B1 and B2 are tied together in JAP cart connector [directly on SMS PCB] (and also cart, it may have been an SG1000 thing back in the days). I think we are left with only 3 or 4 pins that we are not sure among the 2 systems. I analized (without opening) 2 JAP cart games (Fanstasy Zone 1 and 2). Remember that all A lines and D lines are positive logic, while pretty much everything else is in negative logic (so I will not put the "not" in front of each). These are the signals that are forwarded from the slot to inside the cart (so I guess they are used somehow). Fantasy Zone 2 (2Mbit = 256KB cart) connections: All A pins + B1 is tied to B2 = + 5V B3 = CSRAM(?) B6 = Wr B9 = (Refresh) -> it is really MReq (Exp pin 3) B10 = (Mreq) -> it is really CE (Exp pin 13) B15 = RAS1 B18 = A14 B19 = (A15) not sure B21 is tied to B22 = GND Fantasy Zone 1 (1Mbit = 128KB cart) connections: All A pins + B1 is tied to B2 = + 5V B5 = Rd B6 = Wr B10 = (Mreq) -> it is really CE (Exp pin 13) B18 = A14 B19 = (A15) not sure B21 is tied to B22 = GND So for now the mistery lies in: B3 = CSRAM and B15 = RAS1 in Fantasy Zone 2. I am not sure if they can just be tied high or low. I used a multimeter to check for continuity with the Exp slot (via Bock Adapter) on JAP SMS, B3 seems connected to a common chip (as although not 0 ohm it does have a path with almost all Exp pins with at most a few Kohms) instead B15 does not seem connected on anything on the Exp slot. Things I found that don't match exactly the pinouts at http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot or don't have a connection to the same named Exp pin: B7 is connected to Exp slot pin 46 (Reset) and not IORd B8 not connected to Exp splot B9 is connected to Exp slot pin 3 (Mreq) and not Refresh. From B12 to B17 and also B20 are not connected to Exp slot. B19 (allegedly A15) is not connected to Exp slot pin 36 (A15 in Exp slot) but it seems to have a very low ohm path to Exp slot pin 11 (M0-7). In this older page http://www.smspower.org/maxim/Documents/Pinouts way down it seems to indicate some converters did join A15 on one side to M0-7 on the other so It may well be that way for B19 (as JAP SMS does not seem to have a M0-7 anyway),also being Z80 a CPU that addresses 64K (16bit) in order to address the upper 32K it needs A15 to be high or M0-7 to be low, then because of the negative logic !(M0-7) is high so it logically has the same meaning (I guess it comes from a different chip, the same one that generates !(M8-B) and !(MC-F) which really are A15 AND A14 with values at 10 or 11) .... I am being carried away sorry.... well but then again by having !(M0-7) and !(M8-B) which are likely B4 and B19 it is possible to synthesize the missing !(MC-F) as !(MC-F) = !!(M0-7) & !!(M8-B) = !(M0-7) \| !(M8-B) that is an OR between the 2 available signals B4 and B19 (just in case someone wants to make the adapter more similar to a real western one, an OR could be simulated by using 2 diodes [attention that this is negative logic], I doubt that the 0.6/0.8 V drop of the NP junction would make any difference for TTL logic as old as the SMS). There you have it.Hope that helps. I still don't know if B3 and B15 are actually needed for the adapter (for sure MasterED does not use them and the ROMs work fine).

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:57 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Hey lumclaw, so did you manage to get the converter going? is your research done? Just curious, I already declared I'm done with SMS hw thinkering (it was short, bittersweet and like all good things it had to end). With the info collected and ApolloBoy possibly tinkering I was thinking that maybe we have a chance to put this one to rest. Did you manage to build one yourself or get someone else to build one up that works or are we still waiting on someone to even try?

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:37 am
	I've got all the parts ready to go, I just need to find time to put this thing together and try it out.

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:18 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	phoenixdownita wrote Hey lumclaw, so did you manage to get the converter going? is your research done? Just curious, I already declared I'm done with SMS hw thinkering (it was short, bittersweet and like all good things it had to end). With the info collected and ApolloBoy possibly tinkering I was thinking that maybe we have a chance to put this one to rest. Did you manage to build one yourself or get someone else to build one up that works or are we still waiting on someone to even try? I sent parts to someone a while ago. Not much has happened with that. I don't know about semi-professionally hiring the work. I'm not at all technically inclined in this area, wouldn't be able to supply an expert with necessary design blueprints to work with.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:51 pm Last edited by ApolloBoy on Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
	Just wanted to bump this as I finally got my Mark III to SMS adapter finished. I'm pleased to say it works great, and with my SMS II I was able to figure out which of the Japanese games I have work fine on an export system. Here's the list so far... Akai Koudan Zillion Aleste Alien Syndrome Chouon Senshi Borgman Fantasy Zone II Galactic Protector Maze Walker Opa Opa Out Run R-Type Thunder Blade Tri Formation

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:30 pm
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Since it's not april fools, I guess my persistence on the matter has paid off. From your description the kind of major breakthrough I'd wished for.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:28 pm
	And here's the proof: For extra ridiculousness: And yes, it works:

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:18 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Nice work. I guess you have SMS Loader installed as the replacement BIOS. Do you have titles that don't work?

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:29 am Last edited by ApolloBoy on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total
	phoenixdownita wrote I guess you have SMS Loader installed as the replacement BIOS. Nope, that's the original BIOS in it with Sonic built-in. phoenixdownita wrote Do you have titles that don't work? Most of the earlier titles I have don't work because they don't have the necessary header file for the BIOS, and that also includes all the SG-1000 games I have. Out of the later titles I have, After Burner and Super Wonder Boy Monster World don't work. Both of those have different ROMs than the export versions (After Burner actually has its ROM file split across two ROM chips as opposed to one) and so don't have the header file. They all work fine on the Power Base Converter though. I tried Super Wonder Boy Monster World on my PBC with my region modded Japanese Mega Drive, and I was able to get English text by setting the MD to English mode. I encountered some bizarre little glitches with the text boxes every now and then though. BTW, I actually have you to thank for helping me get this to work. When I first tried it, it didn't even work. Then I realized that the cart enable line was disconnected and found this thread while trying to look for info on it. As you said, pin B10 on the Mark III side is actually CE (not CONT as shown in the pinout section of this site), so once I got that fixed it all came together.

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:33 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Would you publish the connections you had to do? Did you use any components in the converter beside connections? I guess that with the SMS Loader the issues about the missing headers are solved as it explicitly disables the check. Anyway nice accomplishment, I am really interested in knowing what connections you ended up doing and which Mark III signals you left basically unconnected as there are no corresponding ones on the western connector.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:42 am
	phoenixdownita wrote Would you publish the connections you had to do? I used an SMS cartridge board that didn't have all the pins present, but it had just enough of them for this to work. All 16 address lines and all 8 data lines are connected, as are write (didn't have the read pin on the cart board I used though), CE, and of course 5V and ground. I didn't use any extra components, just loads of wire and hot glue (!).

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:58 am Last edited by phoenixdownita on Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:01 am; edited 1 time in total
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	If it is not too much disturb you should really make a diagram of Mark III pin name to SMS pin name based on the naming at http://www.smspower.org/Development/CartridgeSlot Really just something like: Mark III \|SMS -------------------------------------- A1 \|25 A2 \|26 A3 \|27 A4 \|28 A5 \|29 A6 \|30 A7 \|31 A8 \|32 A9 \|8 A10 \|9 A11 \|12 A12 \|10 A13 \|33 A14 \|7 A15 \|SMS A16 \|SMS A17 \|SMS A18 \|SMS A19 \|SMS A20 \|SMS A21 \|SMS A22 \|SMS B1 \|SMS B2 \|SMS B3 \|SMS B4 \|SMS B5 \|SMS B6 \|SMS B7 \|SMS B8 \|SMS B9 \|SMS B10 \|SMS B11 \|SMS B12 \|SMS B13 \|SMS B14 \|SMS B15 \|SMS B16 \|SMS B17 \|SMS B18 \|SMS B19 \|SMS B20 \|SMS B21 \|SMS B22 \|SMS

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:34 am
	Here you go: Mark III \|SMS -------------------------------------- A1 \|25 A2 \|26 A3 \|27 A4 \|28 A5 \|29 A6 \|30 A7 \|31 A8 \|32 A9 \|8 A10 \|9 A11 \|12 A12 \|10 A13 \|33 A14 \|7 A15 \|24 A16 \|23 A17 \|22 A18 \|18 A19 \|17 A20 \|16 A21 \|15 A22 \|14 B1 \|1 or 35 B2 \|1 or 35 B3 \|NC B4 \|5 B5 \|4 B6 \|2 B7 \|NC B8 \|NC B9 \|3 B10 \|13 B11 \|NC B12 \|NC B13 \|NC B14 \|NC B15 \|NC B16 \|NC B17 \|NC B18 \|6 B19 \|36 B20 \|37 B21 \|19, 20 or 21 B22 \|19, 20 or 21

lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:45 am
lumclaw Joined: 13 Aug 2010 Posts: 117	Oh man. After Burner was the test subject game I'd sent in...

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:53 am
	lumclaw wrote Oh man. After Burner was the test subject game I'd sent in... It's not too bad if you have a BIOS-modded SMS though. I really wish I still had my Japanese copy of Phantasy Star though, I'm unsure about whether or not games with a save function will work. EDIT: Turns out After Burner doesn't work on the PBC either. I think it's because I'm missing a signal or two on the converter that the game requires. Oh well, I have the American version anyway so it's no real loss.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:15 am
	Hm, Space Harrier isn't working either. I probably should've used a different donor cart that had all 50 pins, but I'm still surprised at how well this thing has worked.

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:00 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Any chance you could try: B19 Mark III goes to 11 and not 36 And for completeness: B7 to 46 BTW awesome work, so now we know it can be done and with a BIOS replacement very few games should have any issue, obviously as none of the RAM signals are wired then BASIC carts would not work. Any chance you could get ahold of the SMS loader [maybe Bock can send you one] to see how better is the whole ordeal (meaning how many more games are actually working)?

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:13 am
	phoenixdownita wrote Any chance you could try: B19 Mark III goes to 11 and not 36 And for completeness: B7 to 46 The PCB I used doesn't have pins 11 or 46 so no can do. phoenixdownita wrote Any chance you could get ahold of the SMS loader [maybe Bock can send you one] to see how better is the whole ordeal (meaning how many more games are actually working)? The Genesis/MD with a PBC doesn't check for a header since it lacks a BIOS, so I was able to try out stuff with that setup as well. All of the games I tried which didn't work on the SMS II except for Space Harrier and After Burner worked fine. Also, I've found that Aleste and Tri Formation work perfectly fine without a BIOS mod so I added those to my little list.

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:47 pm
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Given you have the carts for Space Harrier and After Burner can you check (visually) if pins B19 and/or B7 are actually connected [that is they even exist on the cart]? It is interesting that Fantasy Zone II runs given that the cart seems to be using B3 and B15 [the traces are definitely there, didn't open the actual cart to see where they go though] which are both NC in the converter. Maybe http://www.smspower.org/Development/SMSPagingChips can shed some light. The 2 games you cited as non working seems to be using 315-5235. Unsure if it matters though.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:04 am
	Alrighty, I just got a Hang-On/Safari Hunt cart as a new donor PCB, and thankfully this had all 50 pins available. I've managed to get After Burner and Space Harrier working, using the same wiring scheme I used before, but with B19 on the Mark III side connected to pin 11 on the SMS side as per Phoenix's suggestion. Also, do not connect the pins for EXM1 (B4 on the Mark III side and 5 on the SMS side) as that breaks compatibility with After Burner and Space Harrier; only connect EXM2. EDIT: Proud to say every cart I tested works great, even the Card Catcher!

kamillebidan Joined: 25 Feb 2013 Posts: 384 Location: Osaka	Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:35 pm
	Thank you apolloboy and phoenixdownita for the awesome work! I checked some SG-1000 games, and I noticed that the following games orguss safari race gp world konami no hyper sports space invaders have the following pins on the side B connected (all pins of A side are connected)http://dk.toastednet.org/SMS2SMD/sega2sms.png b1,b2,b10,b11,b18,b19,b21,b22 Safari hunting has the following pins connected b1,b2,b4,b5,b6,b10,b11,b18,b19,b21,b22 Anmitsu hime (mark III game) instead has the following pins connected b1,b2,b6,b10,b18,b19,b21,b22 Do you have any idea on why B11 is connected on the cart (but NC in apolloboy's converter?) From cross check I also checked http://dk.toastednet.org/SMS2SMD/sega2sms.png Differences with apolloboy's adapter with respect to the SMS pins 3, 5 , 37 are disconnected (recent post on EXM1 confirms pin 5?) 46 is connected (post on B7 confirms this?)

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:04 pm
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	ApolloBoy wrote Alrighty, I just got a Hang-On/Safari Hunt cart as a new donor PCB, and thankfully this had all 50 pins available. I've managed to get After Burner and Space Harrier working, using the same wiring scheme I used before, but with B19 on the Mark III side connected to pin 11 on the SMS side as per Phoenix's suggestion. Also, do not connect the pins for EXM1 (B4 on the Mark III side and 5 on the SMS side) as that breaks compatibility with After Burner and Space Harrier; only connect EXM2. EDIT: Proud to say every cart I tested works great, even the Card Catcher! Very nice. More than anything this would allow westerner SMS to play actual SG1000 games (or at least a selection of them, up until now it would have required an SC3000), awesome, it feels nice to have contributed a little to solve this puzzle.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:36 pm
	phoenixdownita wrote More than anything this would allow westerner SMS to play actual SG1000 games (or at least a selection of them, up until now it would have required an SC3000), awesome, it feels nice to have contributed a little to solve this puzzle. Well unfortunately you won't be able to play any SG-1000 games unless you perform a BIOS mod first. However, a handful of Mark III games seem to be cheaper than their American/European equivalents (i.e. Aleste, Fantasy Zone II, Zaxxon 3-D, Space Harrier 3-D) so this would be a nice solution to playing those games on the cheap. Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working. EDIT: Took a look at the ROMs of the games I don't have for the Mark III, and these should theoretically work with a stock BIOS on a Western system: Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars Alex Kidd BMX Trial Anmitsu Hime Ashura Blade Eagle Bomber Raid Captain Silver The Circuit Doki Doki Penguin Land Double Dragon Double Target Enduro Racer Family Games Gokuaku Doumei Dump Matsumoto Great Basketball Great Football Great Ice Hockey Great Volleyball Haja no Fuuin High School Kimengumi Hokuto no Ken Hoshi wo Sagasite Kenseiden Kujaku Ou Lord of Sword Mahjong Sengoku Jidai Makai Retsuden Maou Golvellius Megumi Rescue Nekkyuu Koushien Phantasy Star The Pro Yakyuu Pennant Race Rocky Shinobi Space Harrier Space Harrier 3-D Sports Pad Soccer Sukeban Deka II Super Racing Super Wonder Boy Tensai Bakabon World Soccer Ys Zaxxon 3-D

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:03 am
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	ApolloBoy wrote ... Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working.... Regarding the paddles, they are really hard to find, is there any way to mod Atari ones?

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:08 am
	phoenixdownita wrote ApolloBoy wrote ... Most if not all of the paddle games should work too (Galactic Protector certainly does), but you'd still need a region switch to get the paddle controller working.... Regarding the paddles, they are really hard to find, is there any way to mod Atari ones? No, the Atari paddles work entirely differently than the Mark III paddle controllers, mainly because the SMS/Mark III doesn't have analog inputs like the 2600 does. EDIT: I think the Sports Pad would work for paddle games but I have yet to try it myself.

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:44 am
	This is strange, Super Wonder Boy: Monster World doesn't seem to work with the stock BIOS despite having the proper header. Any ideas as to why?

ApolloBoy Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Posts: 314 Location: San Jose, CA	Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:41 pm
	Just picked up a Japanese copy of Phantasy Star and I'm pleased to say loading and saving games work fine.

robneal81 Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 32	Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:56 pm
robneal81 Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 32	saturndual32 wrote Just got a SMS Everdrive today. I tried it with a japanese SMS console and Bocks Gender Adapter. I couldnt get any game to work. I was getting the menu screen, then the game folders screen, i would pick a game to play, but once it was finished loading it, i would get only a black screen. I updated the OS, tried tons of games, but all of them got me a black screen. I just received my gender adapter today and I'm having the same issue. Was there ever a solution, or do I need to buy one of the Tototek adapters? If so, could someone please confirm the one I need to play US games on a Japanese SMS? Thanks!

phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:29 am Last edited by phoenixdownita on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:04 pm; edited 3 times in total
phoenixdownita Joined: 04 Dec 2012 Posts: 62	robneal81 wrote saturndual32 wrote Just got a SMS Everdrive today. I tried it with a japanese SMS console and Bocks Gender Adapter. I couldnt get any game to work. I was getting the menu screen, then the game folders screen, i would pick a game to play, but once it was finished loading it, i would get only a black screen. I updated the OS, tried tons of games, but all of them got me a black screen. I just received my gender adapter today and I'm having the same issue. Was there ever a solution, or do I need to buy one of the Tototek adapters? If so, could someone please confirm the one I need to play US games on a Japanese SMS? Thanks! You have a few options: 1) You can flash OSv6 (unfortunately it never got fully finalized, you can get it here http://www.smspower.org/forums/download.php?id=5741), not all games work but I'd say a good 90%. The only ones that fail are games that mess up port $3E and mem $C000 and hardcoded the cart slot values. For 100%: 2) you need to do surgery on the exp slot and cut Exp Pad 13 and wire it to cart slot B10 [you basically end up wiring Bock Adapter pin 13 to cart slot B10, instead of Exp Pad 13] , doing so you make the cart slot and the exp slot one and the same as far as /CE is concerned ... at that point you have full support for everything US from Bock Adapter at the back as if it was a normal US cart connector [of course bilingual games would boot in Japanese], after the surgery the Jap cart slot still works normally so do not connect 2 carts at the same time.

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