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  • Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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FM sound board + Wonderboy 3 = ?
Post Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:46 am
Ok, I ordered one of the FM sound boards for my US SMS and I just got it in last week. It worked great except for when I tried it with Wonderboy 3: Dragon's Trap. Now I know I read there's some issues with that game and the FM sound board.

From what I read there was an issue with the original sound boards, but that was fixed (and I'm highly assume I have one of the newer fixed versions since I got it last week). I also read that the FM sound won't work on it unless it detects it's running on a Japanese console. Did the FM sound board fix do something to trick the game into thinking it's on a Japanese system too? I also read something about shorting the TH line on the controller port to trick the game. I tried that with a paper clip on both controller ports separately and at the same time with no results. Is there something I'm missing or do I absolutely have to either play the game on a Japanese SMS or do a region mod on my US SMS?
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Post Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:39 am
The console does need to be in Japanese mode, but you can't do that from the controller port (I had the same idea a little while ago.) You'll need to wire a switch.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:42 am
albino_vulpix wrote
The console does need to be in Japanese mode, but you can't do that from the controller port (I had the same idea a little while ago.) You'll need to wire a switch.


I'm having the same issues also. Can I test it quick without a switch by soldering a wire from pin 34 on the required IC to ground?
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:46 am
Maraakate wrote
albino_vulpix wrote
The console does need to be in Japanese mode, but you can't do that from the controller port (I had the same idea a little while ago.) You'll need to wire a switch.


I'm having the same issues also. Can I test it quick without a switch by soldering a wire from pin 34 on the required IC to ground?


I just tried this on the required chip, per this guide and it still doesn't work...

http://www.smspower.org/Development/RegionChanging
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:08 am
Check the integrity of your connections and that you have the right pin and IC. It worked for me, using a paper clip momentarely holding the pin low after power on.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:25 am
albino_vulpix wrote
Check the integrity of your connections and that you have the right pin and IC. It worked for me, using a paper clip momentarely holding the pin low after power on.


It is a 315-2516 but it's next to the card slot and I counted the pins from 42 going back and attached one end to the ground pin of the a/v port on the back and held the other wire on pin 34 on the back side and turned it on and waited for the demo to start up and still nothing. I just don't get it. I also tried Monster Land, as I've read that starting that up in Japanese will give it Japanese text and no go. It does give the music, which I can do without the Jap Mod. I'm really confused as to why this doesn't work for me at all. Tried shorting pin 7 on the controller port of controller 2 (which following the traces from pin 34 is what this is basically doing and still nothing.

I'm really upset as the main reason I purchased this unit was to hear the WB3 FM music and I purposely avoided emulators just to be able to hear this for the first time. ;/
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:54 am
Also, it's your typical SMS 1 NTSC with Hang-On/Safari Hunt/Snail Maze. The audio mod was taken from C37. The only thing was, mine was techincally refurbished, not that it should make a difference? I bought a boxed SMS and there's a sticker on the bottom that says refurbished on the console itself and the light phaser has the spray painted orange tip.

dunno if this helps anyone in identifying it *shrugs*

Is there another method to switch this into Japanese mode besides shorting TH from Port 2? For all I know that Pin 34 could be damaged this entire time. I believe most light gun games use port 1 right? And is there a game I can test from my collection that would give me an error about being played in the japanese region or otherwise change the text?

The link to my collection is here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/mygames/index.html?status=3&list=1&plat...
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:06 am
Maraakate wrote
And is there a game I can test from my collection that would give me an error about being played in the japanese region or otherwise change the text?


Try After Burner: in Japanese mode it should display a flashing "SEGA MARK III" logo before the title screen.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:25 am
Paul Baker wrote
Maraakate wrote
And is there a game I can test from my collection that would give me an error about being played in the japanese region or otherwise change the text?


Try After Burner: in Japanese mode it should display a flashing "SEGA MARK III" logo before the title screen.


Ahhh, this is one I got sitting in storage. Might be a week before I get a chance to check it out.

Here's a list of games I have with me at the house:

Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars
Cloud Master
F-16 Fighting Falcon
Golvellius: Valley of Doom
Maze Hunter 3-D
OutRun
Phantasy Star
Space Harrier 3-D
The Simpsons: Bart vs. the Space Mutants
The Simpsons: Bart vs. the World
Wonder Boy
Wonder Boy III: The Dragon's Trap
Wonder Boy in Monster Land
Wonder Boy in Monster World
Zillion


hopefully one of these does the same. :X
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:26 am
Are you shorting the pin directly on the IC or are you trying straight from the controller port? There's some stuff between the IC and controller port that would make it not work.

Wonder Boy in Monster Land is also obviously different in Japanese mode. Harder, too.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:35 am
albino_vulpix wrote
Are you shorting the pin directly on the IC or are you trying straight from the controller port? There's some stuff between the IC and controller port that would make it not work.

Wonder Boy in Monster Land is also obviously different in Japanese mode. Harder, too.


Directly from the IC, I also tried the controller port. And as far as I can tell there's just a capacitor in between it and the controller port it's running to, but I could be wrong.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:42 am
Maraakate wrote
hopefully one of these does the same. :X


Alex Kidd: The Lost Stars does, but in white rather than crazy flashing yellow.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:57 am
As far as I remember, this game (along with Time Soldier I think) does not access FM like other games: it does not disable the I/O chip before reading the FM detection port, the result is that the read to that address returns both controller state and FM chip state, which can lead to the FM chip being not detected. I would try to press all buttons until the game starts but I think a more faithful method exist.

It is also true that, like most games having FM suppport, the console must be set into japanese mode for the game to first access FM. If it is not, the game won't even try to detect the FM chip. In Wonderboy III, it's easy to see if you successfully switched console region, you got a "sega mark III" screen on boot.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:22 pm
I posted a workaround here for this WonderBoy 3

Basically, hold down left and button 1, then power on the system. It will think the FM chip is active. Scott verified it with his unit, though I think he has a region switch for his SMS simulate a jap sms as well.

http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11784
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:32 pm
RetroRalph wrote
I posted a workaround here for this WonderBoy 3

Basically, hold down left and button 1, then power on the system. It will think the FM chip is active. Scott verified it with his unit, though I think he has a region switch for his SMS simulate a jap sms as well.

http://www.smspower.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11784


Still nothing, I tried this before, I read that thread in the past. I really have no idea why this won't work at all. It's really starting to piss me off and I know I'm not a complete potser when it comes to soldering and identifying IC's and pin #'s. I'm wondering if this refurbed SMS has something wrong with it thats preventing me from changing the region. There has to be another way besides this controller trick and pin 34.
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:33 pm
Eke wrote
As far as I remember, this game (along with Time Soldier I think) does not access FM like other games: it does not disable the I/O chip before reading the FM detection port, the result is that the read to that address returns both controller state and FM chip state, which can lead to the FM chip being not detected. I would try to press all buttons until the game starts but I think a more faithful method exist.

It is also true that, like most games having FM suppport, the console must be set into japanese mode for the game to first access FM. If it is not, the game won't even try to detect the FM chip. In Wonderboy III, it's easy to see if you successfully switched console region, you got a "sega mark III" screen on boot.


When I soldered the pin I never saw this screen on any of my games and oddly enough my console is not region modded and the FM works on any other FM compatible game I throw at it.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:37 am
Out of curiosity I used alligator clips and tried clipping one to ground and the tip of a wire to every single pin on that IO chip and nothing, no Sega Mark 3 screen or Japanese text on WB2. I even tried doing it with the NEC chips, and all that yielded was cool graphical abnormalities. Is there another way to force this into Japanese mode? I'm really wondering if because this is a refurbed USA Master System that it may potentially be some sort of undumped revision BIOS that totally removed the Japanese portion of the ROM. I gave my friend my other master system but I'll grab it from him this week and perform that mod on that instead and see if it even works then. Either I'm not doing something right (which I highly doubt considering all I'm doing is ground a single pin) or it's my BIOS theory. But who knows?

:S

If theres other points on the board that may work someone let me know please.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:55 am
Maraakate wrote
It is a 315-2516 but it's next to the card slot


Should that say "315-5216"?

If so, are you saying that your 315-5216 is in a different location to the one in this picture?

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:23 am
Paul Baker wrote
Maraakate wrote
It is a 315-2516 but it's next to the card slot


Should that say "315-5216"?

If so, are you saying that your 315-5216 is in a different location to the one in this picture?



Yeah, dyslexia kickin' in sorry. But, you see where the IC is above controller port two? That's where it's located, 42 pins and all. What's located in that picture is actually an NEC D4168C-15, and the chip to the left of that is another NEC chip with the same number. The NEC chips are only 28 pins and IC6 and IC7. IC4 is the 315-5216 chip.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:26 am
Also, if this helps it says to the right of the chip, under the card slot: SEGAM4. POWERBASE/NTSC. And the board is copyright 1988.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:37 am
I've labelled the ICs in the picture:



It looks as though A and C in this picture have 28-pins - these are probably the NEC D4168C-15 (or equivalent) chips. So your board seems to have the positions of B and C swapped.

Does anyone know whether Maraakate's board is unusual? Could this be causing his issue?

More generally, are there many variations of SMS circuit boards?
Also, is there a better picture of the internals of an SMS anywhere?
Board.png (156.5 KB)
Board.png

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:38 am
also, I read about bypassing the BIOS entirely, http://www.smspower.org/Development/BIOSRemoval

would this always force it to boot up in Japanese mode? I'd be willing to try it, depending on what games it would break.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:42 am
Region detection is unrelated to the BIOS.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:51 am
Bah, well could I hook up a light phaser on controller port 2 and hold in the trigger with a resistor on pin either TH or TR to lower the input for it to switch into Japanese (I don't have extensive electrical knowledge, so if this makes no sense at all I apologize) ? The only other thing I've noticed (and curious if anyone else can verify this) is pin 34 leads to EM27.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:57 am
Maraakate wrote
pin 34 leads to EM27.


That seems to be correct according to the schematic.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:02 am
Paul Baker wrote
Maraakate wrote
pin 34 leads to EM27.


That seems to be correct according to the schematic.


Alright, so at least we're following the same chip. So I guess I'll just reask what you've asked. Does the chip placement indicate it's some sort of alternative version of the board?
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:07 pm
Paul Baker wrote
Also, is there a better picture of the internals of an SMS anywhere?


This post contains a link to this site where there are detailed pictures. In fact, one seems to be the original from which the picture I posted was created.

Quote
Does anyone know whether Maraakate's board is unusual?


From the same thread comes this post proving that the board can't be that unusual. The attached pictures seem to fit Maraakate's description - particularly this one:

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:26 pm
So what's the deal then? I don't understand why this wont work. I've more than double checked the pins, it's a very elementary mod according to the instructions. And considering I've done the S-Video mod and added the FM unit, I think any questions about soldering skills would be out. As I've said, I've tried using alligator clips and wire to test grounding every single pin on that IC and nothing. Is there games that use Port 2 for the phaser? Maybe my chip is defective and port 2 TH doesn't actually work, but then again grounding 1TH doesn't yield results either (pin 31) can anyone try grounding pin 31 and letting me know if that also works?
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:03 pm
Innocent question: Cant you just patch the game with a game genie?
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:27 pm
bastetfurry wrote
Innocent question: Cant you just patch the game with a game genie?


funny you mention this, I have a german action replay on my way in the mail now. I'm assuming it's possible.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:58 am
Maraakate wrote
can anyone try grounding pin 31 and letting me know if that also works?


Both TH pins should work for the mod. Do you have a light phaser and game to test the TH pins?
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:18 am
bastetfurry wrote
Innocent question: Cant you just patch the game with a game genie?

If you can find an SMS Game Genie, I'll be very surprised (they never made one). The Action Replay can probably override the region check in software.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:14 pm
Are we sure the region issue is the reason you are not getting any FM?

In MEKA (but not Kega Fusion), Wonder Boy 3 plays the FM music even if "Country" is set to "European/US".
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:53 pm
@Paul Baker:
Which both are not real hardware and as such wont count.

@Maxim:
Yeah, ok, AR then. :)
Still, the OP should check with Meka which address tells the sound engine FM or not and then just freeze it to "You have an FM Chip so use it, dumbass!"
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:08 pm
Meka patches WB3 to not skip FM detection in Export mode.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:54 pm
Maxim wrote
The Action Replay can probably override the region check in software.


Indeed it can: 00cf8500

However, that'll still give you the PSG music. To force FM, you'll need to use a different code (either with or without the one above): 00c23201

I hope this method works for you, Maraakate.

EDIT: Again, I'm basing this on tests using an emulator - perhaps someone with an Action Replay can try the codes on real hardware. Even without an FM unit, the effect of each code should be obvious.
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:08 pm
Paul Baker wrote
Maxim wrote
The Action Replay can probably override the region check in software.


Indeed it can: 00cf8500

However, that'll still give you the PSG music. To force FM, you'll need to use a different code (either with or without the one above): 00c23201

I hope this method works for you, Maraakate.

EDIT: Again, I'm basing this on tests using an emulator - perhaps someone with an Action Replay can try the codes on real hardware. Even without an FM unit, the effect of each code should be obvious.


Whenever it shows up, which should be a week or two from now I'll give it a shot. I've read stories of the AR not liking NTSC what happens exactly?
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:17 pm
Maraakate,

The region modification doesn't work on my Master System either. It's a dodgy hack that only sometimes works.
 
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:09 am
viletim! wrote
The region modification doesn't work on my Master System either. It's a dodgy hack that only sometimes works.


When I installed my FM board (thanks again viletim!) I also installed a 50/60Hz switch and attempted to do install a region switch too, but I couldn't get it to boot up in Japanese mode. No Wonder Boy III FM for me either. :(

-MaRkiSH
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:06 am
Quick suggestion for the console that don't do Japanese mode. Could you try pulling the pin high instead of low. i.e. connect the pin to +5v instead of ground (might want to do that through a resistor, 4.7K should be OK.)
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:02 pm
Maraakate wrote
Paul Baker wrote
Maxim wrote
The Action Replay can probably override the region check in software.


Indeed it can: 00cf8500

However, that'll still give you the PSG music. To force FM, you'll need to use a different code (either with or without the one above): 00c23201

I hope this method works for you, Maraakate.

EDIT: Again, I'm basing this on tests using an emulator - perhaps someone with an Action Replay can try the codes on real hardware. Even without an FM unit, the effect of each code should be obvious.


Whenever it shows up, which should be a week or two from now I'll give it a shot. I've read stories of the AR not liking NTSC what happens exactly?


Whenever I try to boot up the AR it just kicks right into Hang-On/Safari Hunt built-in. Is this typical of NTSC? How hard is it to turn this system into a 60hz PAL machine and would that work with the AR if I did that method?
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:20 pm
This sure does seem to be a much larger mystery than I had anticipated. Is there anyone here that has a US NTSC model 1 SMS (especially the Hang-on/Safari Hunt one) That has the FM sound board installed and has gotten the FM sound on Wonderboy 3 to work? If so, please go into detail about the exact steps and/or modifications you did in order to get it to work.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I've actually seen anyone explicitly confirm that they have gotten this working on a US NTSC system themselves.
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:40 pm
Paul Baker wrote
Maxim wrote
The Action Replay can probably override the region check in software.


Indeed it can: 00cf8500

However, that'll still give you the PSG music. To force FM, you'll need to use a different code (either with or without the one above): 00c23201

I hope this method works for you, Maraakate.

EDIT: Again, I'm basing this on tests using an emulator - perhaps someone with an Action Replay can try the codes on real hardware. Even without an FM unit, the effect of each code should be obvious.


It works!! I can't believe it, it actually works! Took me a while to learn how to use the PAR, I thought I was doing it all wrong, the bottom switch position and hitting pause brings up the code menu. Huge thanks!
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:46 pm
cr4zymanz0r wrote
This sure does seem to be a much larger mystery than I had anticipated. Is there anyone here that has a US NTSC model 1 SMS (especially the Hang-on/Safari Hunt one) That has the FM sound board installed and has gotten the FM sound on Wonderboy 3 to work? If so, please go into detail about the exact steps and/or modifications you did in order to get it to work.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I've actually seen anyone explicitly confirm that they have gotten this working on a US NTSC system themselves.


To answer your question, I've tried that region mod trick by grounding pin 34 on the I/O on two separate NTSC US machines with no luck at all. I was fortunate enough to find a loose PAR on eBay and decided to try that route and it works just fine with the FM board installed.
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:02 am
Sorry to bump, but below ive linked a video I made which shows the hold button 1+left on boot up to get FM sound going on Wonderboy 3. My system is in JAP mode and 60Hz mode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlaEr57934w
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:51 am
Hi!

Sorry to bump this old thread but I'm in the same situation as Maraakate.

I have the same rev motherboard
please google ploguechipsounds blog for the last entry for the pictures

So this is not a fluke. This mod does NOT work on this rev.
I can play SG1000 games on a EPROM cart though which is cool, but i really want to add an FM unit in there, so i need the jap region to work :|

Thanks in advance for any lights (no i dont want an action replay :)
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:44 am
plgDavid wrote
Hi!

Sorry to bump this old thread but I'm in the same situation as Maraakate.

I have the same rev motherboard
please google ploguechipsounds blog for the last entry for the pictures

So this is not a fluke. This mod does NOT work on this rev.
I can play SG1000 games on a EPROM cart though which is cool, but i really want to add an FM unit in there, so i need the jap region to work :|

Thanks in advance for any lights (no i dont want an action replay :)


That this Japanese mod (ie. shorting the TH pin to ground) ever worked at any time on any particular model of hardware IS A FLUKE. If you attempt to perform it you are RISKING HARDWARE DAMAGE because it is a DESTRUCTIVE modification.

Do you really want to risk damaging the I/O chip, loosing light gun support or worse, just to change the music on one game? Especially when there are alternatives like flash/eprom cartridges.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:43 am
I've added a big warning here:

http://www.smspower.org/Development/RegionChanging

viletim, you are now able (if you like) to edit the page to better explain things.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:53 pm
viletim wrote

That this Japanese mod (ie. shorting the TH pin to ground) ever worked at any time on any particular model of hardware IS A FLUKE. If you attempt to perform it you are RISKING HARDWARE DAMAGE because it is a DESTRUCTIVE modification.


So what you are saying is that each time users press fire on his light gun its destroying the console? Essentially what the damn gun does is pull down that that line using resistive material...

viletim wrote

Do you really want to risk damaging the I/O chip, loosing light gun support or worse, just to change the music on one game? Especially when there are alternatives like flash/eprom cartridges.


I guess its a matter of personal perspective. No I don't really care if I screw my console up in the name of science, I've already unsoldered the BIOS and will do a multi-bios switch soon. Its not like an SMS is really rare (like for instance my Casio PV1000 is - and I've done some mods on that anyway for my work on its MESS driver) .

I don't mind the new warning on the "Region Change" page to be there IMHO that warning should be there for any MOD for people with no soldering or electronics experience.

Back on the subject I'm just really curious in the reason why it would work on certain systems and not others from an _electronics standpoint_ not some FUD. I will do some more tests with comparing schematics and test roms. Although if I use "Color & Switch Test (Unknown) (v1.3) ROM" all switches do work on my console and both channel TH gun triggers and register hits when I 'short' the TH lines with a 10k res pull down.

I don't know what I did to offend you here. In email you were kind. I'm ordering an FM unit from you and I will also order an original Japanese Mark III FM Unit just for fun to see if i can hook it up as well. Experiments and Research is what I'm after, not pristine collector state or pure gamer standpoint. I barely play nowadays anyway :)

Just a Different perspective.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:29 pm
When the gun trigger is pressed, the system is driving that line low. When the trigger isn't pressed, the system's driving it high while it is also being grounded. So something somewhere is being shorted unexpectedly.

Would it therefore be safe to implement a region switch such that when grounded, the existing trace is not connected?
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