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View topic - SMS FM Sound Expansion Boards (available now)

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viletim!
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Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:03 pm
rbudrick wrote

In the installation instructions it says: "Trace the audio signal from both the RF modulator and A/V port (if there is one) until they meet at a common point. "

So, did I misunderstand the instructions? I was just going by what you said to trace the signal back.

-Rob


You're confusing me a bit. When you say '3 pins coming off the coax input' are you talking about the RF modulator module? If so, there are usually three pins: audio, video, and +5V. The +5V line is easily identified with a voltmeter or just look for the thicker track that goes all over the board. The difference between the video and audio isn't obvious just by looking at the board. My suggestion is to connect the audio input of your TV (don't forget ground too) to the different pins until you hear some music.

Does your SMS even have an A/V port?

Would you be able to scans or photos of the board. I'd like to include it in the instructions list.
 
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Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:15 pm
Quote
If you 'intercept' the audio further back in the audio signal path then you will get the dubious benifit of FM sound through the RF modulator too.


Ok, hold on a sec. This may be my problem. Are you saying that if I find the right capacitor and do the installation as instructed, even if I do it right, I still won't get FM out of the RF port?

I don't own a A/V cable for the SMS, so I was just connecting it through RF. How would I make my system do both so that it's ready when I do get an A/V cable? How do I intercept it further back as you mentioned? Do I need to make additional connections?

I did find a place coming of pin 3 of the AV port where it met with a trace from the one of the three pins of the RF modulator (after going through a coil...looked like a resistor, but it was a coil). It was closer to the regulator sink, though. It was labeled C20 on mine...it was about where Jacko's C72 is in that pic.

Quote
You're confusing me a bit. When you say '3 pins coming off the coax input' are you talking about the RF modulator module? If so, there are usually three pins: audio, video, and +5V. The +5V line is easily identified with a voltmeter or just look for the thicker track that goes all over the board. The difference between the video and audio isn't obvious just by looking at the board. My suggestion is to connect the audio input of your TV (don't forget ground too) to the different pins until you hear some music.

Does your SMS even have an A/V port?

Would you be able to scans or photos of the board. I'd like to include it in the instructions list.


Yes, I was talking about the RF modulator. And I meant output, sorry. I only see that one of those thee pins mets up with pin 3 of the A/V port. However, as mentioned above, that cap didn't do squat when I installed the board. But, this may be due to the issue I raised above.

I could try to take pictures, but my digital camera suuuucks. It takes pictures that are ALL blurry unless you have perfect outdoor light and the pic you want to take is several feet away.

-Rob
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viletim!
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:26 pm
rbudrick wrote

I did find a place coming of pin 3 of the AV port where it met with a trace from the one of the three pins of the RF modulator (after going through a coil...looked like a resistor, but it was a coil). It was closer to the regulator sink, though. It was labeled C20 on mine...it was about where Jacko's C72 is in that pic.


From what you've described, it sounds like your SMS has the same audio circuit as mine does but with a different layout and part identifiers. What is the value (in µF) of this C20? Do you still get audio if you take it out of the circuit?

In your model the RF audio and A/V audio are directly connected together (it's a different case in the SMS2) so you shouldn't worry about the possibility of hearing FM sound in one and not the other.
 
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Post Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:42 pm
Ah, so the audio will go out if I've removed the right one? That is reassuring. Makes it a bit easier to identify. Not sure of the value, but I could check when I get home. I think it was 10, 20 or 100. Can't remember.

Thanks!

-Rob
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Post Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:27 pm
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QI2MO04B

Here's the best pics I could get with that camera. I tried all the rest of the caps on that side of the board and none worked. When removed, none of them made the audio go out, except one, but then I didn't get picture or anything else either when that one was removed.

There's only one on that side I didn't remove and that's because it connected directly to the power regulator and I knew it wouldn't even turn on if I did that.

I'm at a complete loss here...no clue why this thing isn't working.

I put a multimeter to the caps and the the two audio out pins....many contacted with each other and I tried them all.

-Rob

[Attachment Fairy was here]
S5031462.JPG (217.82 KB)
S5031462.JPG
S5031466.JPG (135.11 KB)
S5031466.JPG
S5031467.JPG (123.26 KB)
S5031467.JPG

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viletim!
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:17 am
rbudrick wrote
Here's the best pics I could get with that camera.


The first one is good. Can you take a photo of the solder side of the board?

Those blue vias remind me of the japanese SMS board...
 
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:17 am
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EB4YK8UU
Here's the best I could get. Sorry they are so large. I just wanted to make sure there was enough resolution to make out the details.

Thanks!

-Rob
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:01 am
rbudrick wrote
Here's the best I could get. Sorry they are so large. I just wanted to make sure there was enough resolution to make out the details.

Thanks!

-Rob


C37 (located below the CXA1145 chip) - white wire +ve, red wire -ve.
 
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:58 am
HA! That's the only one I didn't try because my multimeter showed it to be one of only two or so that didn't make a connection with the audio pin or the rf out pin.

Thanks! I'll give that a shot tonight.

-Rob
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:06 am
Well, I gave it a shot tonight and I still just get regular PCM sound. I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm using Phantasy Star as a test cart, if that matters. I tried the switch in both positions and even tried reversing how the switch plugs into the board, as if that mattered..

-Rob
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:07 am
The export version of Phantasy Star does not support FM sound. It was cut to make room for the larger English script.
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:00 pm
Ah, ok. Thanks. I'm surprised I never heard that. In fact, I thought I heard otherwise before. Oh well. I would have figured JP script took up more space. I'll give some other games a shot. That's good to know. I'll try the Japanese version ( I think I have an adapter for that, being a MKIII game). I have the Brazil and Euro versions too...I take it those have it taken out too (all export versions)?

Has anyone attempted before to hack the export version(s) to put the FM sound back in? I would have thought it only might take up a few KB.

-Rob
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:41 am
rbudrick wrote
Ah, ok. Thanks. I'm surprised I never heard that. In fact, I thought I heard otherwise before. Oh well. I would have figured JP script took up more space. I'll give some other games a shot. That's good to know. I'll try the Japanese version ( I think I have an adapter for that, being a MKIII game). I have the Brazil and Euro versions too...I take it those have it taken out too (all export versions)?

Has anyone attempted before to hack the export version(s) to put the FM sound back in? I would have thought it only might take up a few KB.

-Rob


Try a game like Casino Games or Aztec Adventure, you could even use California Games as well.
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:16 am
rbudrick wrote
I would have figured JP script took up more space.

English text is almost always bigger then the Japanese equivalent. For 8-bit games the text is almost always in katakana (simple phonetic representation) with ~40 characters, where each represents a syllable. English comes down to 26 letters if you make it ANNOYING ALL CAPS, but every syllable takes 2-4 characters. Thus it takes more space on-screen, and for simplistic storage of the text, takes 2-4 times as much space in the ROM. PS uses some simplistic compression but it is still bigger in English than Japanese.

For the retranslation we had to recompress a lot of the graphics with a better algorithm, and also compress the script using relatively advanced techniques, to make it fit inside the original 512KB.

Quote
I have the Brazil and Euro versions too...I take it those have it taken out too (all export versions)?

Yes.

Quote
Has anyone attempted before to hack the export version(s) to put the FM sound back in? I would have thought it only might take up a few KB.

This game is very packed, there's very little wiggle room. The English retranslation has FM, and is much more worthwhile than some version of the original version with FM bolted on.
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:14 pm
It works great now, guys. Thanks very much for all your help!

-Rob
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:21 pm
Are there any boards left? I am hoping to get one for my sms2.
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:31 am
Bumpola

Two questions. Firstly, any SMS2 boards left? And second, 30AWG too thin for the non-power/ground connections?
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:34 pm
albino_vulpix wrote
Bumpola

Two questions. Firstly, any SMS2 boards left? And second, 30AWG too thin for the non-power/ground connections?


Yup, one left. There's about 6 of the plug in version left too.

I don't know much about wire guages (wherever I buy wire it's usually spec'd in mm) but if it's thicker than a human hair you should be fine. For power you should use something bigger for reduced resistance.
 
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:45 pm
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

30AWG = 0.254mm diameter, which is pretty thin, ~4 times the width of a human hair.
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:14 pm
I would say that's the best wire is IDE 40-way ribbon cable...
For the sound and power lines, thickier...
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Post Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:30 pm
I used 0.15mm enamled wire to connect mine, which is what I normally use for digital circuits.

For more heavey duty work I use 21/0.08mm insulated (21 strands together). I can flex it as much as I like and it doesn't break.

I'd only use IDE ribbon wire as a last resort.
 
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Post Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:13 am
I just used normal solid core hookup wire with mine (not dissimular to cat5 conductors).
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:18 am
Excellent, if I get around to cleaning up the inside of my SMSII, I'm definitely buying one, after Christmas most likely.

Same price, $55AU?
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Post Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:49 am
I also want one! Or could you upload your PCB layout?
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Post Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:12 am
Callisto wrote
I also want one!


viletim wrote
To order send me an email with your name, address, which type you want (plug or solder), and how you'd like to pay.


Callisto wrote
Or could you upload your PCB layout?


I've decided not to realease the PCB layout. Some of the track spacings are too fine pitch to be reproduced without a proper photographic or screen printing setup. Not to metion that I'd have spend time creating a layout digram and special mounting instructions for some parts (I do some unusual stuff to keep the board small and single layer).

I'd be surprised if you were able to source all the parts for a single board for much less than the asking price.
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:47 pm
Last edited by dhau on Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
I got my SMS1 FM board, and after some reading managed to install it on my US SMS1, PCB 837-6629, made in September 1988 in China (click for picture). It was C37 (1uF 50V) under CXA1145. It works very nice!

My other US SMS1 is kind of weird (click for picture). It's made in Japan in November 1986, PCB 837-6067. It has huge heat sink on power regulator and IC9 is not CXA1145, it's 28 pin IC with markings Sony 6120 V7040. Nothing in this thread helped to identify the audio capacitor.

SMS'86 has much better composite video output: colors are a brighter, more crisp and don't bleed. I plan to replace all electrolytic capacitors in SMS'88, but if picture doesn't improve, I'd like to move FM unit to SMS'86... Hopefully someone will figure out what capacitor is doing audio in SMS'86.

PS: It would be nice if this thread was pinned. I think FM is rather important.
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:30 pm
Can you post large pictures/scans of the boards?
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Post Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:34 pm
Maxim wrote
Can you post large pictures/scans of the boards?


I made 2560×1920 photos. I know they aren't great, but I did about 20 shots and chose the best. I'm not good at photography :(

I also found the datasheet for Sony v7040 NTSC/PAL encoder: link
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Post Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:30 am
dhau wrote
Maxim wrote
Can you post large pictures/scans of the boards?


I made 2560×1920 photos. I know they aren't great, but I did about 20 shots and chose the best. I'm not good at photography :(

I also found the datasheet for Sony v7040 NTSC/PAL encoder:



Take a photo of the back of the board. It's best to take pictures outside during daylight hours.
 
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:57 pm
I can't believe I missed finding this by a week! Any update to when you may be making any more? If you do, I definately would like a slot style as I have an original model SMS.
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Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:29 pm
Jesus, i want one too! I´ll keep checking until you have more! Would you send it to Brazil? I have a 1st model brazilian Master System and i would love to install the FM board on it!

HarvestDude™
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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:58 am
Bump! C'mon guys there must be more people than just me that want to see more of these babies made!
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:44 pm
I want one, but can't afford one at the moment...

If I land a job and get stuff cleared away with my bills and whatnot, Ill be back to ask about one and purchase if they are still being made...
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:04 am
I'd also love one of these for an original SMS :) Will continue to watch this thread for updates.
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:43 am
Well, he hasn't said anything yet about making more, but if we keep bumping the topic, maybe he'll notice :P
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Post Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:45 pm
Mach-X wrote
Well, he hasn't said anything yet about making more, but if we keep bumping the topic, maybe he'll notice :P


Don't worry, I'll make some more. But I need to get some other things done and out of the way first. Perhaps in a month or two...
 
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:14 am
We know something of this? I´m very interesting at one of this boards
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Post Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:01 am
Bump time! It's been a couple of months since I nagged last. I know this is frowned upon, so I will word as carefully as I can, and hopefully not cause any issues, and hopefully also drum up enough support for viletim to make some more boards :D. Let's suppose that you have your own legal copy of the japanese version of Phantasy Star, and let's suppose your japanese Master System has stopped working. Let's also suppose you were fortunate enough to get one of these FM boards first time around. You can go to http://www.smspower.org/translations/phantasystar-en/ and get an english translation patch, and use ips.exe on your legally backed up copy of the Japanese Phantasy Star. You will now be able to play it with FM sound and a much better english translation than Sega gave it back in 1988! The patched rom image boots on my NTSC-U console just fine in my tototek flash cart (used only for legal backups of game originals), and while I don't have an FM board, pressing pause at the title screen switches audio modes (mine just switches between PSG and silence, obviously!). Happy gaming folks! And hopefully other english patches of japanese FM games are lying around!
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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:46 am
I also want an fm adapter (plug style) for my newly acquired US Master system! I wish I had the system sooner! Im going to keep checking back but viletim definitely put me on the list of buyers when you decide to make another batch of adapters. Thanks!
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Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:01 pm
Before I produce more boards I'll have to redesign the board layout to incorporate new modifications. I'll probably have to go double sided and have them manufactured professionally.
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Post Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:55 pm
We must do a new list with the users that are interesting in this board. how people interesting you need only for you think do a new boards?
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Post Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:17 am
viletim wrote
Before I produce more boards I'll have to redesign the board layout to incorporate new modifications. I'll probably have to go double sided and have them manufactured professionally.


I wish you could spend some of your efforts on GameGear RGB (and S-Video?) output PCB :)
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Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:09 pm
I'll use professionally made double sided PCBs for the next batch. I'm redesigning the layout to take full advantage of it. Also doing some research on a less labour intensive method of soldering on the components with solder paste + stencil. If no disasters take place I should have assembled boards available again before August.

dhau wrote
I wish you could spend some of your efforts on GameGear RGB (and S-Video?) output PCB :)


Actually, I have a design for one of those already. It uses a little CPLD for the logic and a video encoder chip for composite/s-video. I have several other non-Sega related widgets I'd like to produce too. But the SMS FM boards are the number one priority at the moment.
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:22 am
Sounds good, I will definately be grabbing another sound board from you. I am going to redo another Master System for myself and make it neater this time around.
Also a Game Gear video out board will be great, I have the parts here to make one up but just don't have the time to put it together.
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:38 pm
looking forward to the new batch of fm adapters!
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:23 pm
hey guys, i'm interested one of the units for sms1 but my concerns are on the soldering. I know there are only a couple of wires for sound mixing but my soldering skills are novice.
Would it be something i am likely to be able to do or would i be better looking for someone to solder it for me.
My main reason for asking is because when i tried to look at the instructions on post 1 the page doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Thanks

Mike
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:56 am
scrappysphinx wrote

My main reason for asking is because when i tried to look at the instructions on post 1 the page doesn't seem to exist anymore.


I forgot that I had some pages hosted there... I've put the page up at:
http://users.tpg.com.au/vile88/smsfm/smsfm.html
As well as fixed the redirecton link. This spot should last at least six months.

I'll update the page with more SMS board layouts (there are quite a few of them!) before the new FM boards are available.
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:45 am
I will also be keen for a board when you do the next run. :)
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:46 am
Would it be possible at all to install this in a Genesis/Mega Drive or Power Base Converter? I'd love to hear my SMS games in FM sound without having to drag out my Japanese SMS.
 
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Post Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:59 pm
APBoy wrote
Would it be possible at all to install this in a Genesis/Mega Drive or Power Base Converter? I'd love to hear my SMS games in FM sound without having to drag out my Japanese SMS.

I bet you'd have to install it (if even possible) in the genesis
And that probably your genesis games wouldn't work anymore.
But indeed! that would be a sweet set up!
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